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Archive 2009 · lower prices or more product?

paparazzinick
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p.2 #1 · lower prices or more product?

BKphotography wrote:
10k weddings?
You giving aways cars with this package?

nope just awesome photos

Jan 10, 2009 at 02:38 AM

Sergio Mottola
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p.2 #2 · lower prices or more product?

well i am doing this on my G1 right now, so its tough to address people individually. here goes.

while i really would like to increase my prices, i cant see it making sense since i have so little experience. right now i just want to get my first 10 under my belt so my name is out there some more. raising my prices might just alienate more people... if the people who will pay for my work (like gabe said) are willing to pay double, why wouldnt they pay what i charge now? i just want to get to as big of an audience as possible. ideally, by the time i hit 23 (5 yrs) id like to be doing 30 weddings a year at 4 grand minimum.

and im just not sure what to do about marketing, and i dont have a lot of dough to spend until i get a few weddings

Jan 10, 2009 at 03:53 AM

Marcus Watts
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p.2 #3 · lower prices or more product?

1 in three is not bad. You just need to see more engaged couples. What i would do is run a competition where clients can win an engagement session and a poster print.

One person wins that. Everyone else is a runner up and gets an engagement session and an 8x10 print valued at $285 or whatever you charge.

Don't advertise free engagement session or no one books in because free has no value. But by winning it as a prize it does and couples will book in.

Get that systemized, don't chase weddings, chase engagement sessions and if one in three book then you are off and running.

You will find most who don't book will still want to purchase prints from the engagement shoot as you are only giving them one print as the runner up prize.

It's cheap advertising. Tom Hopkins called it the belly to belly principle. The more belly's you can put your belly in front of to ask for a sale the more sales you will make.

Jan 10, 2009 at 04:20 AM

tuannie
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p.2 #4 · lower prices or more product?

One thing I will add is that feeling that you are worth $5,000 a wedding and being able to charge it are two different things. Serg, you know best what you are worth but you need to look at the situation in a realistic way and base your final decision on that.

Yeah big names charge 10K a wedding but that is because well...they are big names! Winning competitions, being published, well-known, overbooked and being named top in the world through various CREDIBLE sources also help. I definitely don't think "I charge 10K a wedding because I think I'm worth it" will fly with most folks. Maybe? But then that has nothing to do with images right? It is about selling yourself beyond the image.

Also, I never understand how others can tell you what you are worth. Images and style are not everything and most of your peers will only base their decision base on the fact that they already know you. They feel you are worth a certain amount because they can only base that on your images. But when you meet with strangers, it is a whole new game.

If you are new, it makes sense to charge less until you book more and can justify a raise. Don't raise your prices because 9/10 people on a forum tell you to do so. If you brought a car to a mechanic that is 19-20 years old who works from home, will you expect him to charge as much as a big dealer do? More importantly, will you be convinced to even pay that much? Wouldn't you rather go with someone who has been in the business longer and have more referrals from real clients. It isn't exactly comparing apple to apple but you get what I am trying to say.

Jan 10, 2009 at 04:58 AM

tuannie
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p.2 #5 · lower prices or more product?

As for digital files, let just look at it this way. When you get married Serg, will you want the files? Or as a photographer you will tell yourself "Well, I know the art and the files don't matter to me as long as I pay $5,000 and just have the person shoot my wedding." The easiest way to figure things out is to put yourself in your clients' shoes.

Jan 10, 2009 at 05:03 AM

ContagiousIdea
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p.2 #6 · lower prices or more product?

hardlyboring wrote:
BTW
On your website when you go to the rates once you click on it and it displays say wedding rates if you go back and rollover the rates again nothing comes up you have to click on one of the other options and then go back to the rates again. Just a heads up, i am not sure if this is just my computer but I was confused their for a second.
Doug
Great site and blog to bad I am stuck in crappy Ohio, I'd love to get together and shoot sometime.

It's a bludomain flash thingy sometimes it gets confused.

Jan 10, 2009 at 05:14 AM

Sergio Mottola
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p.2 #7 · lower prices or more product?

yeah, i'm not gonna raise my prices. just cant decide whether to post them.

Jan 10, 2009 at 06:54 AM

BKphotography
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p.2 #8 · lower prices or more product?

gabemc wrote:
BKphotography wrote:
It can't be the work that you produce, cos its banging man.
BK

This very well could be it....Sergio, you have such a cool, modern, fresh, young (you get the point) style that you will never appeal to the masses. You will always appeal to a lot of photographers out there, but they are not the ones paying the bills. So what do you do....hmmm.....we'll I would raise your pricing. I know it sounds odd, but you have such a unique look, that you will never be able to compete with the "normal" traditional photographers and most (not all) of them are charging exactly what you are. So break away from that...your have with your work and style, so why not with your pricing. See what Sean and Sarah are doing and see how you can relate that to your biz. But you need to be charging a premium for your work....you need to separate yourself from all the others.

Interesting read Gabe.

paparazzinick, good on ye.

Jan 10, 2009 at 11:59 AM

DB
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p.2 #9 · lower prices or more product?

Hmmm. Sergio, in your case it might be best not to post your prices. I've found it's the more expensive photographers that don't post their prices. Which is a pain in the rear as a future bride, but it does denote some kind of quality. I just put my lowest starting point and what every package includes on my site. As a bride, I was always looking for the highest quality photographer that I could afford. If that meant I had to go with someone that cost $3000 just to show up and an extra $500 for a disc (this was nearly half my budget), I was happy and would have booked. I'm used to a strict budget and it wasn't possible to upsell me -- I wanted the cheapest package.

I do think that Gabe is right -- you have a unique style that average people aren't going to want. People looking for photography in your price range might be looking for something more ... normal. Those aren't the clients you want. So maybe if you don't post your prices, those who contact you will be pleasantly surprised taht they can get so much for $5000.

Also - you will get a lot more bookings when you are closer to the average age of marriage. We've gotten referrals from friends simply because they know us and their friends are getting married. Unless you are hanging out with people who are a lot older than you, you will have to wait a bit longer for your friends and their friends to start getting married.

Take heart! You still have a pretty good booking rate, and it's better to start off slow. This year maybe you'll just book one every few months. Take the extra time to second shoot, maybe branch into something you aren't used to doing. I'm excited to see where you go and in a year or two you will be singing an entirely different tune!

Jan 10, 2009 at 01:51 PM

paulhodson
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p.2 #10 · lower prices or more product?

Seems to me with such an individual style some will like and some will not - a sample size of three is too small to tell. My wife and I are the same age (older

) and I like it - she doesn't.

If this conversion rate was from a larger number then you would have to accept either

1. The style only appealed to 1 out of three - possible - in which case you need to either change the style (not what I would suggest) or take steps to put it in front of enough people that 1 out of three is enough.

2. You have a different problem - age/price/competition whatever.

Jan 10, 2009 at 04:32 PM

Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #11 · lower prices or more product?

Sergio Mottola wrote:
i am also going to add a $5000 package that includes parent albums and more. this will make my other packages look more affordable/valuable. the album also can be leather or hardcover now.

That should work.

Jan 11, 2009 at 03:27 AM

Marcus Watts
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p.2 #12 · lower prices or more product?

Marcus Watts wrote:
1 in three is not bad. You just need to see more engaged couples. What i would do is run a competition where clients can win an engagement session and a poster print.

One person wins that. Everyone else is a runner up and gets an engagement session and an 8x10 print valued at $285 or whatever you charge.

Don't advertise free engagement session or no one books in because free has no value. But by winning it as a prize it does and couples will book in.

Get that systemized, don't chase weddings, chase engagement sessions and if one in three book then you are off and running.

You will find most who don't book will still want to purchase prints from the engagement shoot as you are only giving them one print as the runner up prize.

It's cheap advertising. Tom Hopkins called it the belly to belly principle. The more belly's you can put your belly in front of to ask for a sale the more sales you will make.

I hate to boast but that's gold advice dude. Not your prices but your ability to meet more clients will solve your problem.

Jan 11, 2009 at 04:07 AM

ksmahgrts
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p.2 #13 · lower prices or more product?

Marcus Watts wrote:
Not your prices but your ability to meet more clients will solve your problem.

amen.

Jan 11, 2009 at 04:12 AM

DB
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p.2 #14 · lower prices or more product?

Marcus Watts wrote:
Marcus Watts wrote:
1 in three is not bad. You just need to see more engaged couples. What i would do is run a competition where clients can win an engagement session and a poster print.

One person wins that. Everyone else is a runner up and gets an engagement session and an 8x10 print valued at $285 or whatever you charge.

Don't advertise free engagement session or no one books in because free has no value. But by winning it as a prize it does and couples will book in.

Get that systemized, don't chase weddings, chase engagement sessions and if one in three book then you are off and running.

You will find most who don't book will still want to purchase prints from the engagement shoot as you are only giving them one print as the runner up prize.

It's cheap advertising. Tom Hopkins called it the belly to belly principle. The more belly's you can put your belly in front of to ask for a sale the more sales you will make.

I hate to boast but that's gold advice dude. Not your prices but your ability to meet more clients will solve your problem.

Contests for free stuff is always a good way to get people either in the door or booking. I've thought of doing that as well, as soon as I can tell enough people are reading my blog/looking at my site.

The biggest problem for you Sergio is that you don't have enough people looking at your work. That will come with time, but there's some great advice here about how to get a few more people looking at your stuff. I can't wait to hear about your future success!

Jan 11, 2009 at 04:12 AM

DmitriM
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p.2 #15 · lower prices or more product?

I am seeing a lot lately fees starting at 3K+ from photographers with experience of 10 weddings or less. I find it insane. I also think it cripples your business. People think they are worth a ton,but can't get any bookings. Possibly because some have full time jobs and don't really care if they only get 4-5 weddings. It hurts you in the long run,because you would've done 40-50 weddings and had a ton referrals from those. That's when you should raise your prices.
Perhaps you should consider this for a year or two. Work hard and deliver top end result. You'll get a ton of work after that. Now you'll just be wasting your time,trying to get that high end wedding. I would agree that it's hard to find a client that can pay a 3K for a photographer with almost no experience. You are also at a very competitive price range,competing with photographers who are FAR more established. You either have to lower your prices for brides to see that there's nobody like you or raise your prices. But if you raise, you'd have to really justify it and sell yourself as high end. Again, with limited amount of experience, I'd be surprised anyone can do 30-40 weddings at $5K.
Personally, it took me 50 wedding to start charging what you're charging presently. It wasn't because I didn't think I was worth it(I still think I give it away...),but because I wanted a lot of work that would bring a lot of clients. I worked 16 hours a day/7 days a week for months and months with no day offs just to deliver an absolute perfect products. Now I can afford to charge more and have a lot of referrals from those clients.
PS. Age is also a big factor. being close to the age of your clients helps a lot. a few years back I've had a number of clients who I knew didn't book me just because they thought I am too young. As I am in my middle 20s, most of the clients I book are pretty close to that range. I am still having a hard time booking anyone over 30.
I suppose everyone is different and have a different strategy,but this is all just my 58 cents

Edited on Jan 11, 2009 at 09:22 PM · View previous versions

Jan 11, 2009 at 06:33 AM

Sergio Mottola
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p.2 #16 · lower prices or more product?

cool, thanks. i just dont know how to get my work out to more brides. ive done the bridal/floral/boutique sweep of the two areas i live, done all of the online lead sites, did a 2 month 15 sec TV shot at 2 local Tullys coffees. just not sure.

Jan 11, 2009 at 09:12 AM

Marcus Watts
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p.2 #17 · lower prices or more product?

I'm sending you a pm.

Jan 11, 2009 at 09:37 AM

Sergio Mottola
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p.2 #18 · lower prices or more product?

thanks. well randomly enough i just booked a wedding on the phone in under 5 minutes? the bride just knew.

Jan 11, 2009 at 06:36 PM

warpedvinyl
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p.2 #19 · lower prices or more product?

Your work is dope, but since it has such a strong and unique perspective it isn't for everyone. I don't think your market is brides in general. Your market is folks who feel your style. I see that as being young couples, musicians and creative people. People like you. Focus your efforts on places where they hang maybe not tully's but a smaller indy coffee shop where they have open mic nights, poetry readings etc. Since you are so unique, your marketing effectiveness is going to be based on how well you focus on people that dig your style. Word of mouth is going to be your biggest friend. Scattershot marketing won't work well for you...

I know you'll be one of the recommendations when friends of mine in the northwest get married

Jan 11, 2009 at 08:07 PM

Matt Graves
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p.2 #20 · lower prices or more product?

In looking at your packages, I have a question. If you are shooting a wedding that booked you for 6 hours, do you actually leave at 6 hours if the couple hasn't cut the cake, had their first dance, etc.?

Jan 11, 2009 at 08:14 PM

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