Get a 5D2 or go home?

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Archive 2009 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

prof_fate
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p.2 #1 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

jcolman wrote:

I'll stick to shooting weddings with a camera designed to shoot stills. I'll also continue to shoot documentaries, corporate and television shows with a camera designed to shoot video. Maybe it's my over 30 years of shooting video that has turned me into a video elitist bastard.

You're not an elitest, just a stick in the mud. You don't shoot film, do you? But I bet when digital first came out you were amongst the crowd that said film would never die.

The alternative is RED - a video cam that can pop out 12mp stills, but it's a lot more money.

I agree with rhembein that video and still have a 'different way of seeing' . I have (or had) the ability to see on video and a secret (well, not now I suppose) dream of mine would be to make movies.

Jan 08, 2009 at 01:33 PM

ChrisDM
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p.2 #2 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Mike Mahoney wrote:

So if they can shoot stills of the recessional, ring exchange, & first dance while simultaneously shooting video of those same scenes why not?

Can you simultaneously shoot stills and video with a 5D2? I didn't know that... I've had a 5D2 for a couple weeks yet but obviously haven't explored the video function yet. For me its just a feature that will come in handy on family vacations... I've edited home video before, and judging from that experience I'd rather shoot myself than edit wedding video.

Chris Miller
www.imagineimagery.com

Jan 08, 2009 at 01:38 PM

Jimsokay
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p.2 #3 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

I hate to be critical but here I go. (referring to the first post)

I do no believe that is the way it will be integrated, if it is it will drag down your still photography business. Do you want to sell solid still photos along with poor video just because you can?

Outside of the full production clips that you've seen floating around the web (that you will never do unless you want to spend $5,000 for a $500 sale) I have seen only one use of mix of still photo and video that shows how to best integrate this new technology into current business models.

If you're wondering what that is just take a look at The Gray's new website. They have taken to this like a fish takes to water. They fully understand it right out of the box on how to make this useful to themselves. Granted it's a promo, but they nailed the initial concept which I find kind of amazing since I'm unaware of any past experience in the video world.

Study it a bit and if it clicks with you and you're ready to jump in go for it. If this doesn't click with you then save yourself the aggravation and stay with what you know.

Jim

Jan 08, 2009 at 02:15 PM

rhyder
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p.2 #4 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

These are amazing. Where do you get your music? Is it hard to add in? What software are you using?

Jan 08, 2009 at 02:38 PM

Mike Mahoney
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p.2 #5 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

ChrisDM wrote:
Can you simultaneously shoot stills and video with a 5D2? I didn't know that...

I think you can shoot a still while capturing the video?

I don't have the body yet so can't check for sure .. I thought I read that you can.

Jan 08, 2009 at 02:57 PM

meridian
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p.2 #6 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

A few observations on the video:
1. No sound - this is harder than you would think to do well - requires skill and equipment
2. Video is jittery as heck (made me dizzy watching it). This is a big problem if straight out of the camera it is like this. Almost seems like the camera was handheld and not on a tripod. A tripod would be mandatory for video clips.
3. The editing is poorly done. This is a matter of taste but the cuts come to fast and too frequent. How will you please different viewers/customers with a single editing style? Are multiple edits/versions going to be requested by clients? That would be very time consuming.
4. Size of video - capturing all the raw video clips typically required to edit together a 10 minute piece is going to require a lot of storage. I would guess at least a 10:1 ratio of finished minutes to raw footage. This makes data management and security (i.e., backup) a big job.

Just some thoughts.

Jan 08, 2009 at 03:02 PM

syi916
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p.2 #7 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

i once took a vacation to SF with bunch of friends and took my camcorder with me. i have posted and viewed my pictures from that trip but... the video is still in the camcorder. i'm not sure brides will value videos too much. unless you can include an lcd panel inside your album and show it there?!?!?! whoa... watch out wedding photographers, your days are numbered.

Jan 08, 2009 at 04:23 PM

JunRay707
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p.2 #8 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

So...which is better for wedding set up?

5D+5D+Images(Retouched) Slide Show VS 5D Mark II + Video(5D Mark II)

Jan 09, 2009 at 02:43 AM

prof_fate
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p.2 #9 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Who knows what the next couple of years will bring. RED video shooters and they pull out stills? Maybe.
I agree that I prefer stills and I think most people do. I in no way think that the 5D2 video will BE the product they buy.
I think it's something that can be offered for sale, like prints, an album, image files, etc.

Last you needed a video camera and all the crap that goes with it - batteries, tapes, chargers, cables, read the manual, etc.

Now? You push a button. No extra anything to buy, learn, carry, etc.

Will brides want video from us? Who knows. 3 or 5 years ago they didn't want the hi res files on DVD, now it's pretty standard they get them, or can get them, and they certainly WANT them. What on earth are they going to do with 500, 450 unedited most likely, hi res JPGs? Not a damned thing - I'm sure of it.

But Canon and Nikon both have bodies that do video. Some photogs will give it a try -some already are and the camera's only been on the streets for what, 5 weeks?

You can resist the Force if you want to, but I think the Force is strong in this one (5D2).

Jan 09, 2009 at 03:01 AM

Jimsokay
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p.2 #10 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

prof_fate wrote:

Now? You push a button. No extra anything to buy, learn, carry, etc. .

I have to strongly disagree with the part about nothing to learn.

Lots to learn if you don't want to be the equivalent of Uncle Bob with his digital Rebel. There's so much involved to do it right it would scare you. Then again that hasn't stopped others before.

Jan 09, 2009 at 03:46 AM

rhembein
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p.2 #11 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

ChrisDM wrote:
Can you simultaneously shoot stills and video with a 5D2? I didn't know that...

Mike Mahoney wrote:
I think you can shoot a still while capturing the video?

I don't have the body yet so can't check for sure .. I thought I read that you can.

Apparently you can capture still while the video is being captured. I only read that in a few places... I dont have the money to get one and try myself for a while yet

I read the other day RED is coming out with what they call a "replacement for D-SLRs". A DSMC (Digital Still & Motion Camera) which they expect to have hit the market late this year. They obviously think the market is opening up to a motion AND still sector of shooters/companies also.

Jan 09, 2009 at 04:08 AM

flash
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p.2 #12 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

You can record stills while recording video. Not full res an there's a 1 second gap in the video. We had a quick play last weekend at the reception. Quality is awesome. White balance is variable. The audio needs an external mic and manual focus means that it's hard work. We may record speeches cake cutiing and first dance at weddings wher there's no vidoegrapher, but atm we feel it will pull us away from concentrating on what we do best.

I did hear a couple of guests exclaim "hey, that's not video is it. Nah, it can't be!" Made me smile.

Gordon

Jan 09, 2009 at 12:27 PM

Andrew Welsh
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p.2 #13 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

prof_fate wrote:
Last you needed a video camera and all the crap that goes with it - batteries, tapes, chargers, cables, read the manual, etc.

Now? You push a button. No extra anything to buy, learn, carry, etc.

Have to disagree with you on this one. The 5DII is *not* a handholdable video camera, especially with a lens on it. The few clips I tried to make-- with an IS lens no less-- were too jittery to watch.

The blog you linked likely had a shooter using a steadicam rig, which go for $2k+ depending on quality, etc. Your typical photo tripod is likely not the best for video either-- you'll need a good fluid head for panning shots.

My experience shooting and editing video is a lot of disk space, a lot of time, a lot of distillation (10:1 is low, I'd say more like 20:1 to 30:1) and very little money to show for it at the end. Because of the ease of video editing even in the last 5 years with consumer technology, you are less likely to wow people. In 2003 I compiled a 4-minute video from 20+ hours of video (of people practicing and competing), and showed it to those people-- they were wowed and excited, because video editing hadn't penetrated the market much. Fast forward to 2007, I do the same thing and I got a lukewarm response-- because 3 of their friends do the same on the weekend.

To get an excited or emotional response now, you have to do cutting edge, different stuff-- and that takes even more time than a straight edit with standard dissolve transitions and some music overlaid on it. A lot of work for very little return.

And for a solo wedding shooter, I would be hard pressed to concentrate on both shooting video and stills and do a good job with both at a wedding. I'd have to have at least a partner to do one or the other, which simply raises costs.

Jan 09, 2009 at 01:19 PM

form
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p.2 #14 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Because the video quality is supposedly more film-like than a standard camcorder due to the narrow DoF, I think the 5D II's video will stay comparatively unique and therefore appealing and interesting for wedding photography for that reason alone. If it was like any regular camcorder, it probably wouldn't hold the same appeal.

Jan 09, 2009 at 03:43 PM

deepbluejh
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p.2 #15 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Gotta agree with the tripod statements. You cannot hand hold a 5DII for video and expect anything decent with it. For anything that a client is going to see, it needs and IS lens and a careful hand, or it needs a tripod.

Jan 09, 2009 at 03:48 PM

shelby_daniel
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p.2 #16 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

Mike Mahoney wrote:
ChrisDM wrote:
Can you simultaneously shoot stills and video with a 5D2? I didn't know that...

I think you can shoot a still while capturing the video?

I don't have the body yet so can't check for sure .. I thought I read that you can.

You can. It does cause a click noise and a second or so of stoppage in the video (which can be annoying).

Jan 09, 2009 at 04:03 PM

ESC in KC
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p.2 #17 · Get a 5D2 or go home?

prof_fate wrote:
Still isn't dead. Stand alone videographers are.

You're already at the wedding. Look at the segments he's shooting there. If you've got 2 shooters one can easily be grabbing a few frames of video. No costs involved, no still shots missed.

Back at the studio you do have the time and software to edit this into the 5 minute video as we see here. An hour? 2 Hours? OK, so it costs you 3 hours of time.

If you only ever just put it on your blog or use it in meetings in addition to a slideshow I think doing it at a few wedddings a year is worth it.

BUT, what if you could offer it as a freebie with the purchase of a big, fat, thick album? They buy an album for an extra $1500 just to get the video.

Raise your price by $500 and include the video. Costs you 3 hours. 1/2 the cost of a real full videographer. I bet youd' sell a lot of them.

You have the ability to offer a product that most weekend warrios and sally soccer moms won't be offering, or can't offer.

So is it a marketing thing? You win.
Is it an additinal product to sell? You win.
Is it an incentive to choose you over someone else? You win.

I see no downside to this. Sure, you have to give up some HD space and buy some software and learn how to use it. Many photogs do slideshows now - similar costs in time, software, etc.

(not sure on the extracted quality, but it works like live view. hit the shutter and get a 21mp still anytime you want. It's 1980 wide, so I guess a 2Mp image?)

As a bride, would you prefer a slideshow or full video?

Sorry - but the whole premise of 2 or 3 hours of time is WAY off. I've spent a lot of time creating videos for sports teams and other high school organizations and I can assure you that by the time he scrubbed through the footage to get the scenes he chose, pieced it together and timed it all to music, he spent a heck-of-a-lot more time than 3 hours. People who dont actually work with video notoriously underestimate the amount of time involved. Just like weekend warriors notoriously underestimate the talent and skill it takes to take quality wedding photos.

Also - I must say that IMO, you are pretty far off with the assertion that using video software is similar to what photogs do now. If you produce HD then you need bluray capable software and a bluray burner, AND your client needs bluray player to view it. Sure its cheap if you want to use basic crapola software, but believe me, the real software ain't cheap or easy if you want to produce quality and/or HD. Dont even get me started on the best way to down-convert HD to SD formats and not end up with a bunch of compression artifacts in your output. That calls for script-based frameserving with even more software for transcoding a quality output.

I'd venture to say that if you raised your price by $500 for what you saw, you would be making about $10 to $20/hour TOPS for the added time, not to mention how the video would chew up your memory in a heartbeat and be extremely disruptive to your still shooting.

Ed

Jan 09, 2009 at 04:25 PM

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