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Archive 2008 · How do YOU back up?

DB
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p.2 #1 · How do YOU back up?

I agree that DVDs are not permanent solutions -- but most of us are backing up long enough to make sure tht the client has their images and that we don't lose them before we finish the finished JPEGs/Albums/etc. I'm not an archival solution for my clients -- I'll keep images around for as long as I can, but it's not my issue if a client comes to me 10 years down the line and expects me to have a copy of their images. I've had far more memory problems with harddrives, so I like to have that extra DVD sitting around, possibly off-site. It's just another level of security while I'm completing the images.

Dec 22, 2008 at 04:42 PM

Ryan Britton
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p.2 #2 · How do YOU back up?

If you're using DVDs as a backup, the safest way is to go with the archival-grade gold ones. The kodak ones I have here and use for copyright submissions are rated for 100 years. I do not trust standard DVD-Rs for anything needed longer than a year.

Dec 22, 2008 at 04:45 PM

Saad Syed
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p.2 #3 · How do YOU back up?

Save to Primary disk, save on 2 RAID 10 disks, save on a forth hard disk, and burn DVD of RAWs. I think I'll be adding the zenfolio thing - I have an account I use as proofing. Does Zenfolio allow you to upload full res pics and if so, does it allow you to retrieve them as full res w/o any interpolation? I haven't looked into it that deeply...

Dec 22, 2008 at 04:48 PM

Tony Hoffer
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p.2 #4 · How do YOU back up?

Saad, Yes and Yes.

Dec 22, 2008 at 04:53 PM

Paul Prior
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p.2 #5 · How do YOU back up?

I use aperture vault to backup to a Drobo (FW800), to a ReadyNAS in the basement over ethernet, and to a separate individual drives (3 separate vault copies). The last I put in a fireproof safe in my home and rotate between two drives.

My aperture directory is also backed up by time machine

I use Mozy for off-site backup as well (aperture directory is uploaded).

I don't burn DVDs, but should. I never find the time.

Dec 22, 2008 at 04:57 PM

davenfl
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p.2 #6 · How do YOU back up?

davenfl wrote:
First, not to scare anyone but CD/DVD backups are not really the way to go. Unlike professionally produced copies they unforunately have a shelf life once they are burned on a computer drive. It varies widely based upon the manufacturer of the media and storage conditions but, you can begin to have data read failures in as little as a year and typically after 3-5 they are not reliable. OK now that I scared you let me discuss our procedures good or bad. All of our primary files are on the servers in the office on a raid disk array. Those are backed up to a set of portable firewire drives once a week and those are put in a fireproof box at the house. We also use an internet data vault service where we backup everything online. This is done automatically in off hours using a set of "net change" software provided by the data vault company which uploads any file which is new or changed. So we have triple backup. Overkill for a startup but it provides you with the options. The online backup companies (the big ones) are totally safe and secure and it is an easy and fast way to have a copy of your files. They can be had at very economical cost also.

Please don't depend on dvd's, there is a heartache waiting to happen. The ones produced in a factory are permanent, yours are temporary. We advise all our clients that we provide a dvd that they should place a copy on a hard drive as soon as possible.

Again not trying to scare anyone. DVD's burned on the highest quality media and handled and stored according to manufacturer guidelines can in theory last decades. The basic problem is that people don't handle or store them carefully and they begin to have data errors at the most inconvenient of times. I am just noting that caution is merited and the DVD media should be stored in dark, cool, and low humidty environments for maximum safety. Lastly my personal suggestion is that hard drives, while also fragile, are infinitely better for archiving important data.

Dec 22, 2008 at 05:15 PM

Andrew Dutcher
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p.2 #7 · How do YOU back up?

Hard drives are more dependable if you don't run them. I am not at the photography level as many of you, so I am not quite as obsessive about backups. I have an internal HD that I use as my primary, then backup to an external. My external only runs for the time it takes to do a backup, then I unplug and store off-site. Most hard drives are not built for constant use. That said, I do not trust my images to DVD's, and don't even bother making a copy to them except for my most valuable images (I deal more in photography as art than in commercial photography).

Dec 22, 2008 at 05:34 PM

Beni
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p.2 #8 · How do YOU back up?

Each wedding is on 3 hard drives, one off site. All are only switched on for transfer of new data or retreiving when things go wrong (happened numerous times). The CF cards aren't wiped until the data is on at least 2 drives. Clients are given their 'negatives' when bought on a Delkin 100 Year Gold DVD, verified after burning then checked again by me, they cost a fortune but it means that I've done my side of the bargain.

Dec 22, 2008 at 06:03 PM

The Grays
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p.2 #9 · How do YOU back up?

We don't put any images on our computer because we deal with too many images. Here is our system.

Download shoot onto two separate external hard drives (we do all the pp on one drive which is an e-sata drive (3 gig a second transfer rate), and the other one is a mirror of the e-sata drive).

We then edit the images and export the final JPG's to another external drive and burn a DVD of the final JPG's.

Then we upload all the JPG's to Pictage that night. Pictage archives all of your images for you off site.

That's it!

-Zach & Jody Gray

Dec 22, 2008 at 06:05 PM

Terrance Dobro
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p.2 #10 · How do YOU back up?

We can debate each individual backup technique there is because there's pros and cons to everything. DVD's that aren't professionally produced in a factory are burned and not stamped so you'll always have problems with oxidation, environment, etc. Personally, I've never had a DVD fail on me that was kept in a "controlled" environment like a filing cabinet. My MP3 CD left on my dashboard during the summer? Life expectancy was about 2 months. As for the Gold DVD's that are supposed to last 100 years, I've never heard one way or another but it's a bold statement for a technology that's been around only 30 years.

Hard drives aren't a much better cure-all. They degrade over time due to there being moving parts and being exposed to a computer's worst enemy: heat. Solid state drives are the new toys that's supposed to eliminate those problems but they're still expensive.

Online backup services can be expensive and there's always the chance of a company folding or having a catastrophic event (earthquake, fire, etc - which HAS happened to a back up service). Plus there's the lack of convience due to transfer rates.

Then there's the ZIP drives, tape backups, etc. Problem is, technology moves on and what works great now you may not even be able to access later because technology has moved on - one of the reasons why the Library of Congress still has microfilm and microfiche: so they can access pre-IBM archives.

The bottom line, like many have said, we are not archivists by trade. A combination of technologies are going to give you piece of mind and ensure that you keep the files for as long as you see fit. The most important thing is to back-up at least once and keep it someplace away from your computer in the event you have a break-in, fire, or "HUA" moment.

As for me, I download everything to the computer and then back-up on 5 3/4" floppies and cassette-tape drives...

My last wedding only took 1284 floppies!

Dec 22, 2008 at 07:08 PM

dannyrod
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p.2 #11 · How do YOU back up?

Terrance Dobro wrote:

As for me, I download everything to the computer and then back-up on 5 3/4" floppies and cassette-tape drives...

My last wedding only took 1284 floppies!

hahaha!!

Dec 22, 2008 at 08:47 PM

tmiller
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p.2 #12 · How do YOU back up?

I use a home built NAS box that I built with my old computer system. It's networked, accessabile through the internet (with the right passwords) and is a RAID 1 system, 4x750gb harddrives. All final jpegs go on smugmug pro account. I host a different selling system where I pocket ALL of the money, so smugmug is good for something. =o)

Then I still burn DVD's, as well as my "personal" set of files on my main work drives.

DVD's goto the bank safe deposit box.

-tmiller

Dec 23, 2008 at 04:50 AM

DB
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p.2 #13 · How do YOU back up?

tmiller wrote:

DVD's goto the bank safe deposit box.

-tmiller

Hadn't thought of that solution.

I know a few of you use fireproof safes. That seems fairly convenient, but how expensive is it?

Dec 23, 2008 at 01:25 PM

Gary Harfield
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p.2 #14 · How do YOU back up?

SMUGMUG
every SmugMug customer gets unlimited storage - so that's no mean feat. (Currently, unlimited means ~300TB of storage and nearly 500,000,000 images. To put that into perspective, that's more than 65,000 DVDs or 480,000 CDs).

Your priceless photos are stored in multiple datacenters, in multiple states, and at multiple companies. They're orders of magnitude more safe and secure.

In partnership with Amazon.
Amazon.com is the gold standard in safe online backup. All SmugMug photos are automatically backed up to Amazon's network of datacenters.

Retrieve them anytime.
There are many ways to retrieve your high-resolution photos from SmugMug when you need them, from downloads to DVDs.

Dec 23, 2008 at 01:41 PM

32067dlm
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p.2 #15 · How do YOU back up?

Tony Hoffer wrote:
I'm not overly obsessive about my backups, though I think some people are.

You've never lost a clients files have you? It's not a matter of if, but when a hdd will fail!!!

All current clients on primary computer (meaning album hasn't been delivered), plus external raid, plus two external usb drives, and sometimes DVD (for better or worse).

Dec 23, 2008 at 03:43 PM

32067dlm
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p.2 #16 · How do YOU back up?

Deb Brundage wrote:
tmiller wrote:

DVD's goto the bank safe deposit box.

-tmiller

Hadn't thought of that solution.

I know a few of you use fireproof safes. That seems fairly convenient, but how expensive is it?

$25 - $1,000 on Amazon.com

Here

Don't forget to pay use tax!!!

Better than DVD's, put a third drive from your raid system in the fire box. That way the raid always has two and periodically, you can swap out the "safe" disc and let the raid rebuild it. That way you have three disks. I hope that was clear.

Dec 23, 2008 at 03:47 PM

prof_fate
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p.2 #17 · How do YOU back up?

Being a PC person I sacrifice an Apple at every oppoturnity. So far it's worked pretty well!

HDs sitting on a shelf are got gonna come back to life. It is not a reliable way to strore data. Don't even think about it.

DVDs are better IMO. I've had many HDs not spin up or be readable after sitting on a shelf but I've never had a DVD not work. BUt they are slow to burn and these days don't hold enough.

RAID is a good first line, but it's not backup.

Tape backup systems have been THE standard for decades and is what we should probaby be using, but some removeable hot swap HDs can work. Tapes are cheap but tape drives of large capacity are not.

What is the data worth? If you lose it what will it cost you? Know those numbers and you know what you should spend on a backup solution.

My problem is I am generating 400+ gb of data a year and more than doubling that every year. So in '09 I will have around 1Tb of new data (and more if I get a 5D2 and shoot full res RAW files). You need backups of that as well as business data. Ideally daily.

But can that be done reliably? Ever test your backup? I did and guess what? It didn't work.
I lost my email (corrupted) and the restored file (backed up daily) was NOT readable by outlook after restoration. Not even going back 30 days! Other files were teh same way. Backup software said it was ok, but nothing would read. Useless.

I was using an automated copy for weekly backups to an external HD. The local machine was fine. The other machine on the network, while I never got any errors, never copied a single file. Again, it's not backup if the disk is blank!

So I am re-evaluating things. DVDs don't look so bad afterall!

Dec 23, 2008 at 03:58 PM

prof_fate
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p.2 #18 · How do YOU back up?

32067dlm wrote:
$25 - $1,000 on Amazon.com

Here

Don't forget to pay use tax!!!

Better than DVD's, put a third drive from your raid system in the fire box. That way the raid always has two and periodically, you can swap out the "safe" disc and let the raid rebuild it. That way you have three disks. I hope that was clear.

Ever been to a place that burned to the ground? SHOW ME that the data will be readable. First, the safe will be in the basement, under all sorts of debris. It will have been 1000 degrees at least and then soaked in water. This time of year it will then experience days of sub freezing temps. You do realize you can't go get it for a few days, right? And then it might not be safe to go in there. Ever maybe.

Data is fine- but you gotta backup everything else. Work at home and teh house urns down? You need a new computer, software and you'll be working in a hotel room for weeks.

The only safe backup is kept off site - relatives house or bank safe deposit box.

Dec 23, 2008 at 04:01 PM

martines34
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p.2 #19 · How do YOU back up?

I'm not a professional or I would have a different approach.

After a shoot I preview my images and get rid of the obviously bad ones.

I then copy the file to a portable hard drive.

I then copy the images to my program of choice (iPhoto, Aperture, LR, or PS ) _ this places them on my internal HD.

I have a Drobo attached to my computer (www.drobo.com) which has two 1T drives for redundancy. It has room for 2 additional drives.

Works for me.

Dec 23, 2008 at 04:09 PM

32067dlm
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p.2 #20 · How do YOU back up?

martines34 wrote:
I have a Drobo attached to my computer (www.drobo.com) which has two 1T drives for redundancy. It has room for 2 additional drives.

I think the Drobo is a really cool product, but what happens when your Drobo fails or the company goes out of business. A single drive can't be read by a computer. At least that's what I understand.

Dec 23, 2008 at 04:19 PM

chaloux
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p.2 #21 · How do YOU back up?

Currently everything is stored in two locations. The HDD in my PC, and an external HD.

I am running out of space, so after christmas my setup will be using a Thermaltake BlacX eSATA HD dock. That way, I can simply buy HDs and swap them out and leave them on the shelf (or in a fireproof safe, etc.) until I need them.

I also use an APC battery backup system. If the power goes out, I have about 5 minutes to safely shut down. What's also nice about this is that the computer and whatever else is plugged in runs off of the battery which continually charges, so a surge/shock/whatever doesn't reach it. Nice peace of mind.

Dec 23, 2008 at 04:27 PM

ChrisDM
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p.2 #22 · How do YOU back up?

Everything on two external hard drives here and a copy of all jobs at collages.net for my offsite backup.

Chris Miller
www.imagineimagery.com

Dec 23, 2008 at 04:35 PM

ChrisDM
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p.2 #23 · How do YOU back up?

martines34 wrote:
I'm not a professional or I would have a different approach.

After a shoot I preview my images and get rid of the obviously bad ones.

I then copy the file to a portable hard drive.

I then copy the images to my program of choice (iPhoto, Aperture, LR, or PS ) _ this places them on my internal HD.

I have a Drobo attached to my computer (www.drobo.com) which has two 1T drives for redundancy. It has room for 2 additional drives.

Works for me.

As long as you never keep an "only copy" of anything on the DROBO, relying on its "redundancy". The storing on the DROBO alone is not a backup solution, unless it is simply used as second/external hard drive... But a simple second/external hard drive is more cost effective, more efficient, faster and less prone to "proprietary failure". a DROBO is a good solution if you're running a web or FTP server though, and need 24/7 uptime, but is overkill and inefficient as a photo storage/backup solution.

Chris Miller
www.imagineimagery.com

Dec 23, 2008 at 04:40 PM

martines34
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p.2 #24 · How do YOU back up?

32067dim:

"I think the Drobo is a really cool product, but what happens when your Drobo fails or the company goes out of business. A single drive can't be read by a computer. At least that's what I understand. "

I think that you can say that about any manufacturer that there is - "here today, gone tomorrow."

I'm happy with the performance of the Drobo and the response from their Support Department.

You can easily change the drives and exchange drives should you wish to exchange one. Pretty much plug and play.

When one drive fails the Drobo senses it is going to go and copies information from the dying drive to another good drive. I've had it happen and Drobo took care of replacing the WD drive for me.

Dec 23, 2008 at 04:41 PM

klam
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p.2 #25 · How do YOU back up?

-I have my current work in progress and last 12 months on my desktop PC's internal hard drives
-These are mirrored nightly to RAID 1 external storage.
-When post-processing is done, the raw files+XMP and finished JPEG are copied to DVDs and additional non-RAID external hard drives.

Dec 23, 2008 at 09:17 PM


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