I'm sure that this has already been said but a friend purchased a RAID NAS (network-attached storage) device so that all images were available to any machine on the network, and the drives are mirrored for realiability.
It doesn't protect you against fire or theft (for which you'll still need some kind of off-site solution) but this was the best response I've heard to having safe on-site backups of working files.
Lucky_Dog wrote:
Can you provide more info about your RAID arrays? I've been looking for one... so far I'm not impressed with "home" versions -- and business intended units are quite expensive.
They're 1 TB each when configured as a mirror. All of the RAID is handled internally and there are no extra bells and whistles you don't need. It's _just_ a hard drive enclosure with RAID. Best thing is it's just a standard file system too. Nothing proprietary.
Okay, I read enough articles to know now that DVD is a mistake in the making. Now what? The only safe medium is a hard drive? That's okay, they're cheap, but what other methods are there to safely archive data? Can I get a professionally burned DVD made?
I think we are on two different topics. I believe the OP was about "back up" systems. It was not about Archiving. The two, though not mutually exclusive, are not the same either.
My business is photography, we are not archivists. If it were, I would agree, DVDs are not the answer.
I agree that DVDs are not permanent solutions -- but most of us are backing up long enough to make sure tht the client has their images and that we don't lose them before we finish the finished JPEGs/Albums/etc. I'm not an archival solution for my clients -- I'll keep images around for as long as I can, but it's not my issue if a client comes to me 10 years down the line and expects me to have a copy of their images. I've had far more memory problems with harddrives, so I like to have that extra DVD sitting around, possibly off-site. It's just another level of security while I'm completing the images.
If you're using DVDs as a backup, the safest way is to go with the archival-grade gold ones. The kodak ones I have here and use for copyright submissions are rated for 100 years. I do not trust standard DVD-Rs for anything needed longer than a year.
Save to Primary disk, save on 2 RAID 10 disks, save on a forth hard disk, and burn DVD of RAWs. I think I'll be adding the zenfolio thing - I have an account I use as proofing. Does Zenfolio allow you to upload full res pics and if so, does it allow you to retrieve them as full res w/o any interpolation? I haven't looked into it that deeply...
I use aperture vault to backup to a Drobo (FW800), to a ReadyNAS in the basement over ethernet, and to a separate individual drives (3 separate vault copies). The last I put in a fireproof safe in my home and rotate between two drives.
My aperture directory is also backed up by time machine
I use Mozy for off-site backup as well (aperture directory is uploaded).
I don't burn DVDs, but should. I never find the time.
davenfl wrote:
First, not to scare anyone but CD/DVD backups are not really the way to go. Unlike professionally produced copies they unforunately have a shelf life once they are burned on a computer drive. It varies widely based upon the manufacturer of the media and storage conditions but, you can begin to have data read failures in as little as a year and typically after 3-5 they are not reliable. OK now that I scared you let me discuss our procedures good or bad. All of our primary files are on the servers in the office on a raid disk array. Those are backed up to a set of portable firewire drives once a week and those are put in a fireproof box at the house. We also use an internet data vault service where we backup everything online. This is done automatically in off hours using a set of "net change" software provided by the data vault company which uploads any file which is new or changed. So we have triple backup. Overkill for a startup but it provides you with the options. The online backup companies (the big ones) are totally safe and secure and it is an easy and fast way to have a copy of your files. They can be had at very economical cost also.
Please don't depend on dvd's, there is a heartache waiting to happen. The ones produced in a factory are permanent, yours are temporary. We advise all our clients that we provide a dvd that they should place a copy on a hard drive as soon as possible....Show more →
Again not trying to scare anyone. DVD's burned on the highest quality media and handled and stored according to manufacturer guidelines can in theory last decades. The basic problem is that people don't handle or store them carefully and they begin to have data errors at the most inconvenient of times. I am just noting that caution is merited and the DVD media should be stored in dark, cool, and low humidty environments for maximum safety. Lastly my personal suggestion is that hard drives, while also fragile, are infinitely better for archiving important data.
Hard drives are more dependable if you don't run them. I am not at the photography level as many of you, so I am not quite as obsessive about backups. I have an internal HD that I use as my primary, then backup to an external. My external only runs for the time it takes to do a backup, then I unplug and store off-site. Most hard drives are not built for constant use. That said, I do not trust my images to DVD's, and don't even bother making a copy to them except for my most valuable images (I deal more in photography as art than in commercial photography).
Each wedding is on 3 hard drives, one off site. All are only switched on for transfer of new data or retreiving when things go wrong (happened numerous times). The CF cards aren't wiped until the data is on at least 2 drives. Clients are given their 'negatives' when bought on a Delkin 100 Year Gold DVD, verified after burning then checked again by me, they cost a fortune but it means that I've done my side of the bargain.
We don't put any images on our computer because we deal with too many images. Here is our system.
Download shoot onto two separate external hard drives (we do all the pp on one drive which is an e-sata drive (3 gig a second transfer rate), and the other one is a mirror of the e-sata drive).
We then edit the images and export the final JPG's to another external drive and burn a DVD of the final JPG's.
Then we upload all the JPG's to Pictage that night. Pictage archives all of your images for you off site.
We can debate each individual backup technique there is because there's pros and cons to everything. DVD's that aren't professionally produced in a factory are burned and not stamped so you'll always have problems with oxidation, environment, etc. Personally, I've never had a DVD fail on me that was kept in a "controlled" environment like a filing cabinet. My MP3 CD left on my dashboard during the summer? Life expectancy was about 2 months. As for the Gold DVD's that are supposed to last 100 years, I've never heard one way or another but it's a bold statement for a technology that's been around only 30 years.
Hard drives aren't a much better cure-all. They degrade over time due to there being moving parts and being exposed to a computer's worst enemy: heat. Solid state drives are the new toys that's supposed to eliminate those problems but they're still expensive.
Online backup services can be expensive and there's always the chance of a company folding or having a catastrophic event (earthquake, fire, etc - which HAS happened to a back up service). Plus there's the lack of convience due to transfer rates.
Then there's the ZIP drives, tape backups, etc. Problem is, technology moves on and what works great now you may not even be able to access later because technology has moved on - one of the reasons why the Library of Congress still has microfilm and microfiche: so they can access pre-IBM archives.
The bottom line, like many have said, we are not archivists by trade. A combination of technologies are going to give you piece of mind and ensure that you keep the files for as long as you see fit. The most important thing is to back-up at least once and keep it someplace away from your computer in the event you have a break-in, fire, or "HUA" moment.
As for me, I download everything to the computer and then back-up on 5 3/4" floppies and cassette-tape drives...
I use a home built NAS box that I built with my old computer system. It's networked, accessabile through the internet (with the right passwords) and is a RAID 1 system, 4x750gb harddrives. All final jpegs go on smugmug pro account. I host a different selling system where I pocket ALL of the money, so smugmug is good for something. =o)
Then I still burn DVD's, as well as my "personal" set of files on my main work drives.
SMUGMUG
every SmugMug customer gets unlimited storage - so that's no mean feat. (Currently, unlimited means ~300TB of storage and nearly 500,000,000 images. To put that into perspective, that's more than 65,000 DVDs or 480,000 CDs).
Your priceless photos are stored in multiple datacenters, in multiple states, and at multiple companies. They're orders of magnitude more safe and secure.
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There are many ways to retrieve your high-resolution photos from SmugMug when you need them, from downloads to DVDs.
Tony Hoffer wrote:
I'm not overly obsessive about my backups, though I think some people are.
You've never lost a clients files have you? It's not a matter of if, but when a hdd will fail!!!
All current clients on primary computer (meaning album hasn't been delivered), plus external raid, plus two external usb drives, and sometimes DVD (for better or worse).
