Mother of the Bride

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Archive 2008 · Mother of the Bride

thef1sl
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p.2 #1 · Mother of the Bride

Evan, your posts have evolved from cool to thought provoking.... it's great... well done sir!

Dec 15, 2008 at 04:30 PM

Evan Baines
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p.2 #2 · Mother of the Bride

Thanks all: cheers!

Dec 15, 2008 at 06:50 PM

Evan Baines
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p.2 #3 · Mother of the Bride

Brandon:

I've posted a bit more about my thoughts on manipulation in portraiture in my blog, which may help answer some of your question about my views on this subject

http://evanbaines.blogspot.com/2009/01/youre-so-maniupulative.html

Jan 04, 2009 at 10:06 PM

Shari Umpstead
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p.2 #4 · Mother of the Bride

Evan,
I don't really "do" weddings all that often anymore (I found I prefer portraiture - kids mostly, and some more "edgy" stuff as of late). I have always found that talking with people while shooting them not only makes them more comfortable with me as a photographer, but also so they can see me as just someone they are "hanging out" with. The nerves are less likely to cause "fake smiles" and nervous tension in the faces when the person in the portrait sees me as their friend, or at the very least, just another person - and not just a camera pointing at them. With kids, I tend to schedule extra time in my sessions for "getting to know/play time" before the shoot so they don't wonder who that stranger is behind the lens.

As a result, I am friendly with most of my past clients, and I have even become friends with quite a few after having a one to two hour session with them.

Anyway, after all this rambling what I mean to say is that I think your approach is major brilliant & splendid. Keep it up.

Jan 05, 2009 at 12:01 AM

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p.2 #5 · Mother of the Bride

Wow... this post has taken me on a bit of a roller coaster ride of emotions. Upon initially reading Your post Evan, I was incredibly emotional... The eyes, the knowing smile... it definitely is a very deep picture. Is it a visually striking, sexy sells, rockstar celebrity portrait, no, probably not. Does the backstory, explained by Evan help sell the picture to us.... yes, it certainly does.... but isn't that what every picture is about. The cliche is "a picture is worth a thousand words," and in that picture.... all 1000 words are about a mother's love, hopes, and dreams for her daughter... from the day she was born, up to this point in her life.. everything she's wanted for her daughter, its in that picture. Things that you and I, as outsiders in that relationship, don't even know about, but the mother and daughter do.

As I scrolled down and read the suggestion that Evan was almost manipulating us with this back story, I was horrified. To suggest that without the backstory, the picture is weaker.. is absurd and arrogant. It may be less impressive to us (from a strict photographic pizazz sense), but to those intimately involved i.e. the mother and the daughter, that story doesn't even need to be told. They look at the picture and understand the emotion. I'd be willing to bet that is more important to them than any rockstar, celebrity shot.

Then...as I read further and someone suggested that perhaps the mother might have felt manipulated by Evans' question, I was perplexed. I felt so emotional by the pic and than this comment changed my perspective... I was able to comprehend that the mother might possibly feel manipulated and I think it comes to one thing... Evan's interaction with his client or in this case, the mother. He controls his interaction with her. If he handles the situation delicately, he breaks down some walls and gets some true emotion, a connection with his subject, if he doesn't, she feels manipulated.

I commend you Evan for this awesome post... it has really made me think about my interaction with clients.. not only on the day of, but leading up to. The whole experience is about gaining a level of comfort and trust that truly allow the person to shine through. I'd also like to commend all of the poster's as the thread has been incredibly thought provoking... whether i agree or not with your comments, I appreciate the fact that you've made them.

Jan 05, 2009 at 01:13 AM

scott shoemake
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p.2 #6 · Mother of the Bride

Evan, this is such a powerful and moving image. I love how black and white subdues everything in the image, yet intensifies the emotion! You can definitely peer into her heart through her eyes and see, yay feel, the love. Golden.

Jan 05, 2009 at 05:19 AM

dmacmillan
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p.2 #7 · Mother of the Bride

Evan Baines wrote:
Candice KausHa wrote:
great post Evan. thank you!
I've always been interested in truly learning how to work with a client to get these types of images. Are there any particular resources that you've found most helpful?

Candice,

There really isn't a book or website that can TEACH this kind of thing, as its extremely personal, and your process will be different than mine or anyone else's.

As part of my studies, I started to practice a series of portraits where I allowed myself only one light and a reflector (purposely lighting only in a very simple butterfly or 45deg setup), and shot on a plain white background. I wanted to remove everything that I usually used to make a photo "good." By taking away everything photographically "cool" (composition, fancy lighting, elaborate posing) like Avedon did, its forced me to develop a manner of relating to my subjects: being able to communicate with them in such a way as to elicit some manner of "truth" in their expression. There's no real trick to this: just practice and empathy. The only resource I can recommend is to study the work of Richard Avedon, as he was the true master of this style.

I'd like to add a little to what Evan has said.

At the risk of oversimplification, I've observed that there are two general paths into photography. There are the gearheads who are fascinated by the technology. They are often, but not always, introverts. The other path is comprised of those who are less technically oriented. They are more interested in using photography to communicate what they see. They seem to be less likely to be introverts. Gearheads, especially the introverts, have a harder time achieving a connection with their subjects. It can be done, though.

I was lucky to have Jim McCrary as an instructor while I was at Art Center. At the time, Jim was head of the photography department of A&M records. In addition to our regular weekly assignment, we had to bring in a portrait. The rules were simple and very similar to Evan's self assignment: No fancy lighting, just try to communicate with the subject and capture something of who they are. It pushed me out of my comfort zone, but proved to be invaluable in my future photographic endeavors.

I consistantly suggest to newbies that they spend less time fiddling with the technical end of portraiture and more time connecting with the subject. The technique will come later.

I think if you're going to make money photographing people you must genuinely like people. It wasn't the question that Evan asked the mother of the bride that was important, it was that he expressed a genuine interest in her and her daughter. I'm sure there were tons of non verbal clues she sensed that told her that.

I don't think all those non verbal clues can be taught. As Evan said you've got to work it out for yourself. You'll never get there unless you like people and can feel comfortable with them. You'll have to make yourself vulnerable; only then will people trust you. You also need to get your head out of all the technical aspects of image capture. This is not anti technique, it's quite the opposite. You have to be a superb technician, to the point it's all second nature. Evaluating backgrounds, determining lens apertures, "seeing" the light and a myriad of other technical things happen in your subconcious while you focus on relating to that human being in front of you.

Doug

Jan 05, 2009 at 01:46 PM

coffee-black
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p.2 #8 · Mother of the Bride

Great shot and great post.

>rw

Jan 05, 2009 at 04:00 PM

RichardLavigne
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p.2 #9 · Mother of the Bride

dmacmillan wrote:
Evan Baines wrote:
Candice KausHa wrote:
great post Evan. thank you!
I've always been interested in truly learning how to work with a client to get these types of images. Are there any particular resources that you've found most helpful?

Candice,

There really isn't a book or website that can TEACH this kind of thing, as its extremely personal, and your process will be different than mine or anyone else's.

As part of my studies, I started to practice a series of portraits where I allowed myself only one light and a reflector (purposely lighting only in a very simple butterfly or 45deg setup), and shot on a plain white background. I wanted to remove everything that I usually used to make a photo "good." By taking away everything photographically "cool" (composition, fancy lighting, elaborate posing) like Avedon did, its forced me to develop a manner of relating to my subjects: being able to communicate with them in such a way as to elicit some manner of "truth" in their expression. There's no real trick to this: just practice and empathy. The only resource I can recommend is to study the work of Richard Avedon, as he was the true master of this style.

I'd like to add a little to what Evan has said.

At the risk of oversimplification, I've observed that there are two general paths into photography. There are the gearheads who are fascinated by the technology. They are often, but not always, introverts. The other path is comprised of those who are less technically oriented. They are more interested in using photography to communicate what they see. They seem to be less likely to be introverts. Gearheads, especially the introverts, have a harder time achieving a connection with their subjects. It can be done, though.

I was lucky to have Jim McCrary as an instructor while I was at Art Center. At the time, Jim was head of the photography department of A&M records. In addition to our regular weekly assignment, we had to bring in a portrait. The rules were simple and very similar to Evan's self assignment: No fancy lighting, just try to communicate with the subject and capture something of who they are. It pushed me out of my comfort zone, but proved to be invaluable in my future photographic endeavors.

I consistantly suggest to newbies that they spend less time fiddling with the technical end of portraiture and more time connecting with the subject. The technique will come later.

I think if you're going to make money photographing people you must genuinely like people. It wasn't the question that Evan asked the mother of the bride that was important, it was that he expressed a genuine interest in her and her daughter. I'm sure there were tons of non verbal clues she sensed that told her that.

I don't think all those non verbal clues can be taught. As Evan said you've got to work it out for yourself. You'll never get there unless you like people and can feel comfortable with them. You'll have to make yourself vulnerable; only then will people trust you. You also need to get your head out of all the technical aspects of image capture. This is not anti technique, it's quite the opposite. You have to be a superb technician, to the point it's all second nature. Evaluating backgrounds, determining lens apertures, "seeing" the light and a myriad of other technical things happen in your subconcious while you focus on relating to that human being in front of you.

Doug

Perfectly stated... the difference between the subject feeling manipulated vs. not, comes down to Evan's interaction... if he's genuine and sincere, she will know and not feel manipulated.

Jan 05, 2009 at 05:12 PM

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