Coastal Optics 60mm

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Archive 2008 · Coastal Optics 60mm

trajan
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p.1 #1 · Coastal Optics 60mm

Is the Coastal Optics 60mm worth buying if you don't shoot IR? What's the appeal of this lens?

thanks,

--trajan

Dec 12, 2008 at 06:33 AM

Anden
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p.1 #2 · Coastal Optics 60mm

Have you read this:
http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/CoastalOptics60f4/index.html

Dec 12, 2008 at 06:41 AM

trajan
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p.1 #3 · Coastal Optics 60mm

Actually, yes I have, but I would like an user's perspective.

thanks,

--trajan

Dec 12, 2008 at 06:45 AM

rico
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p.1 #4 · Coastal Optics 60mm

PM FMer "burningheart"

Dec 12, 2008 at 07:27 AM

ACElkins
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p.1 #5 · Coastal Optics 60mm

Although I have no need for shooting IR or UV images, I do understand the benefits for the additional correction. Would be interested ( at least for my niche market use ) to see a test bettween this lens and Nikon/Leica 60mm macro lenses, the 100mm Leica Apo-Macro-Elmarit and the new Zeiss macros on reproducing flat artwork.

Dec 12, 2008 at 03:50 PM

jph1
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p.1 #6 · Coastal Optics 60mm

Check this: http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_spec.html
you need to scroll down the page to find it.
Jim

Dec 12, 2008 at 03:56 PM

brianc1959
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p.1 #7 · Coastal Optics 60mm

trajan wrote:
Is the Coastal Optics 60mm worth buying if you don't shoot IR? What's the appeal of this lens?

thanks,

--trajan

The Coastal 60 is very expensive if you only intend to use it for ordinary visible band shooting. It will show better visible-band color correction than any other 50-60mm macro lens, but this can be a subtle thing. I made a special effort to ensure that the visible band MTF would exceed all lenses in its focal length class, but again this will be a subtlety to most photographers.

The real appeal of the 60mm APO is its unique color correction from 315nm to 1100nm, which no other photographic lens comes close to matching. My real intention in developing this lens was to provide a tool for forensic scientists, art conservators, and others who really need a better way to do multispectral imaging. Unfortunately, the optical materials and coatings required to achieve this don't come cheap.

Dec 12, 2008 at 06:06 PM

HerbChong
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p.1 #8 · Coastal Optics 60mm

i wish there was a wide angle version of this for IR landscape work. i am currently experimenting with lenses on my IS Pro and right now trying the Nikkor 20/3.5 AI-S. i am very interested in the 60 anyway, but given a choice, i would prefer something like an 18. i realize that this is a super low volume market, but i know what i need.

Herb...

Dec 13, 2008 at 12:41 AM

burningheart
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p.1 #9 · Coastal Optics 60mm

trajan wrote:
Is the Coastal Optics 60mm worth buying if you don't shoot IR? What's the appeal of this lens?

thanks,

--trajan

As mentioned in my PM, the lens has its unique colour look on the 5D it is more of a neutral, natural color, on my Fujifilm s5 it gives IMHO beautiful saturated colors in macro work.

But originally my appeal to this lens was UV. Once using it I found it to be a great IR lens on my modified 5D and now a favorite on the Fujifilm for flowers.
for other interested here are some shots using it the Nikon 28mm Series E, Nikon 105 UV lens, in a few different situations. This includes UV shots, IR shots, Full Spectrum and Visible.

http://www.robert-chisholm.com/Multispectrum/index.htm

Dec 13, 2008 at 04:11 AM

olyacme
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p.1 #10 · Coastal Optics 60mm

I'm curious about a couple things about this (really neat) lens.

First, I'm surprised to see it being lauded for visible light performance. Its design has gone to great lengths to provide correction beyond the visible spectrum, but I'm not sure why this should indicate particularly good performance within it. Its documentation claims apochromatic performance, with colour crossings in UV, visible, and IR parts of the spectrum. This, along with correction for spherical and coma at two widely separated wavelengths, satisfies the traditional definition of being apochromatic. But with just one advertised colour crossing within the visible spectrum (say, green), wouldn't this lens be trounced by a less exotic apochromat with crossings at violet, green, and red? With less bandwidth to correct over, the less ambitious lens should be able to hold aberrations to lower levels across its spectrum of interest. Maybe the Coastal 60mm is actually an underadvertised superapochromat, with more than three colour crossings?

Second, one of the notable features of mineral fluorite is that it fluoresces when exposed to UV light. A whole bunch! So much so that microscope objectives designed for use with fluorescent tissue tagging and the like use fluoro-ED glass instead of fluorite so as to keep glowing elements from fogging the field. This kind of objective is not typically imaging UV directly, so their designers can usually just throw away the UV light. But the Coastal lens cannot, and is advertised as containing fluorite elements. Is autofluorescence ever a problem with it?

Dec 13, 2008 at 07:25 AM

brianc1959
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p.1 #11 · Coastal Optics 60mm

olyacme wrote:
I'm curious about a couple things about this (really neat) lens.

First, I'm surprised to see it being lauded for visible light performance. Its design has gone to great lengths to provide correction beyond the visible spectrum, but I'm not sure why this should indicate particularly good performance within it. Its documentation claims apochromatic performance, with colour crossings in UV, visible, and IR parts of the spectrum. This, along with correction for spherical and coma at two widely separated wavelengths, satisfies the traditional definition of being apochromatic. But with just one advertised colour crossing within the visible spectrum (say, green), wouldn't this lens be trounced by a less exotic apochromat with crossings at violet, green, and red? With less bandwidth to correct over, the less ambitious lens should be able to hold aberrations to lower levels across its spectrum of interest. Maybe the Coastal 60mm is actually an underadvertised superapochromat, with more than three colour crossings?

Second, one of the notable features of mineral fluorite is that it fluoresces when exposed to UV light. A whole bunch! So much so that microscope objectives designed for use with fluorescent tissue tagging and the like use fluoro-ED glass instead of fluorite so as to keep glowing elements from fogging the field. This kind of objective is not typically imaging UV directly, so their designers can usually just throw away the UV light. But the Coastal lens cannot, and is advertised as containing fluorite elements. Is autofluorescence ever a problem with it?

I'm not aware of any vis-only apochromat as short as 60mm, and lenses such as the 60mm Micro-Nikkor have much more longitudinal color in the visisble band than the UV-VIS-IR 60mm. The UV-VIS-IR 60mm needed to have three color crossings because the waveband is so large. The visible band performance of the 60mm is plainly shown by MTF curves: http://www.coastalopt.com/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=29&Itemid=99999999

The CaF2 used in the 60mm UV-VIS-IR is UV-Grade, which is very transparent down to below 193nm. This same material is used for deep UV stepper lenses in the semiconductor industry, and it has better UV transparency than fused silica. Autofluorescence is not an issue with this material. The transmission losses below 315nm are caused by special optical glasses that are needed for color correction into the infrared spectrum. These glasses have excellent transmission throughout the UV-A spectrum, so again autofluorescence is not an issue.

Dec 13, 2008 at 01:52 PM

brianc1959
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p.1 #12 · Coastal Optics 60mm

HerbChong wrote:
i wish there was a wide angle version of this for IR landscape work. i am currently experimenting with lenses on my IS Pro and right now trying the Nikkor 20/3.5 AI-S. i am very interested in the 60 anyway, but given a choice, i would prefer something like an 18. i realize that this is a super low volume market, but i know what i need.

Herb...

Designing ultrawide UV-VIS-IR lenses is very difficult because of the extremely low index materials that you are forced to use. My current thinking is that 24mm may be the practical lower limit for designs of this type, assuming 24x36mm coverage. To go shorter will likely mean giving up UV correction, which is probably OK since UV photography is such a specialized thing.

Dec 13, 2008 at 02:01 PM

olyacme
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p.1 #13 · Coastal Optics 60mm

brianc1959 wrote:
I'm not aware of any vis-only apochromat as short as 60mm, and lenses such as the 60mm Micro-Nikkor have much more longitudinal color in the visisble band than the UV-VIS-IR 60mm. The UV-VIS-IR 60mm needed to have three color crossings because the waveband is so large. The visible band performance of the 60mm is plainly shown by MTF curves: http://www.coastalopt.com/index2.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=29&Itemid=99999999

Do you have a ray fan plot for a goodly number of frequencies handy for the lens? I think this would possibly be more impressive than the MTF for getting your point across.

But still, if yours is the only true apochromat in this field, yet is corrected over such a wide band, it begs the question why nobody has built one to be apochromatic over a less demanding waveband, for better performance within that band at a less demanding price.

brianc1959 wrote:
The CaF2 used in the 60mm UV-VIS-IR is UV-Grade, which is very transparent down to below 193nm. This same material is used for deep UV stepper lenses in the semiconductor industry, and it has better UV transparency than fused silica. Autofluorescence is not an issue with this material. The transmission losses below 315nm are caused by special optical glasses that are needed for color correction into the infrared spectrum. These glasses have excellent transmission throughout the UV-A spectrum, so again autofluorescence is not an issue.

OK, doing some outside reading it seems that sufficiently pure manufactured fluorite doesn't fluoresce (much?). The mineral found in nature does, due to trace amounts of rare earths that may be trapped within its crystal structure. Serves me right for not going outside of my first references, but every bit of info I've read on microscope objectives simply state that they abandoned CaF2 when zero autofluorescence is demanded.

Dec 13, 2008 at 02:59 PM

HerbChong
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p.1 #14 · Coastal Optics 60mm

i recognize it's not going to be easy. the IS Pro is a wide band UV-VIS-IR camera with coverage from about 380nm to about 1000nm using an APS-C sensor. so for me, a crop factor sensor is the target and that means about 18mm FL to give me about 85 degrees FOV.

as i said, i am experimenting with the Nikkor 20/3.5 AI-S because of Bjorn's recommendations as an excellent IR lens provided that i avoid flare-prone situations. for that matter, having someone willing to recoat my lens so that it handles IR flare better, if that were possible, would be a big step up.

i am willing to forego UV but if it were available, my camera is sensitive to it. as it stands now, i have no lens that works well enough in UV to matter so i am not going to miss anything. i'm not yet willing to modify any of my existing lens to increase it's UV transmittance.

if, in the end, i get the 60, i would end up using it to stitch multirow IR panoramas to achieve the FOV i want for landscapes.

Herb....

brianc1959 wrote:
Designing ultrawide UV-VIS-IR lenses is very difficult because of the extremely low index materials that you are forced to use. My current thinking is that 24mm may be the practical lower limit for designs of this type, assuming 24x36mm coverage. To go shorter will likely mean giving up UV correction, which is probably OK since UV photography is such a specialized thing.

Dec 13, 2008 at 07:43 PM

brianc1959
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p.1 #15 · Coastal Optics 60mm

olyacme wrote:
Do you have a ray fan plot for a goodly number of frequencies handy for the lens? I think this would possibly be more impressive than the MTF for getting your point across.
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But still, if yours is the only true apochromat in this field, yet is corrected over such a wide band, it begs the question why nobody has built one to be apochromatic over a less demanding waveband, for better performance within that band at a less demanding price.

I can send you a plot of any aberration you want to see, but its probably best to do so offline. The MTF and chromatic aberration curves that I published in Coastal's online brochure are pretty thorough in revealing the capabilities of the lens.

Trying to achieve better visible-band chromatic correction than the 60 Apo would at best be a theoretical excersize IMO.

Dec 15, 2008 at 12:32 AM

olyacme
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p.1 #16 · Coastal Optics 60mm

brianc1959 wrote:

I can send you a plot of any aberration you want to see, but its probably best to do so offline. The MTF and chromatic aberration curves that I published in Coastal's online brochure are pretty thorough in revealing the capabilities of the lens.

Trying to achieve better visible-band chromatic correction than the 60 Apo would at best be a theoretical excersize IMO.

Maybe I like ray fan plots and spot diagrams because they're such great eye candy, but they can also give indications of the defocus properties that MTF cannot. If you want to publish either on axis ones, or "corner" ones, I'm sure some folks besides me would be interested. But I don't have a particular need to know myself.

I agree that trying to best the CO 60 at focus at common aperture would be largely pointless, except where price point is concerned!

Dec 15, 2008 at 12:56 AM


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