Anyone Ever Tried This Before

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Kalifornia
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p.1 #1 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

I am wondering if it Possible to mount a small studio type head "ALIEN BEE TYPE" to a Flash bracket and use it as a portable flash on location with the battery power. Has anyone ever done anything like this before secussfully? Outside of the weight and size issue, I can't see why it could not be used! Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks
KAL

Dec 03, 2008 at 02:56 PM

Carmen Miranda
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p.1 #2 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

Sure.

People have used Norman 400B, the Dyna-lite UNi400JR Jackrabbit pack or Lumedyne systems for years with great success. These small portable DC "pack" systems were designed with this specific situation in mind.

The biggest problem with using a small "monobloc" flash system, like a "ALIEN BEE TYPE", is that the the flash bracket would have to support the entire bulk and weight of the self-contained system on the bracket. Not to mention the need for an additional inverter or generator. Paul Buff has a Vagabond inverter/battery system that allows you to use the reletively lightweight AB's in the configuration that you describe. Also others like Bowens, JTL, Interfit and others have introduced AC/DC monolights that might work. But the unavoidable problem is still supporting a big heavy monobloc on a flash bracket as opposed to a stand.
Doable? I suppose.
Practical? NO WAY!

Portable "pack" type systems on the other hand allow a lighter head to be isolated on the flash bracket for greater manageably. These types can also be designed around a dedicated and compact battery system that is often far more compact and efficient.

The other issue is whether you actually want a light that is capable of handling large modifiers on a camera bracket anyway. Smaller self contained units like the Metz and Sunpack potato mashers or the Quantum bare bulb are usually much better solutions for "event" type photography where a flash bracket is an advantage and high power is a must.

Good luck

Dec 03, 2008 at 04:20 PM

cgardner
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p.1 #3 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

Its possible but not really practical.

First of all a regular hot shoe flash like a 580ex has plenty of power for most situation where flash on a bracket might be used, so why swat a fly with a sledgehammer when a fly swatter can do the job better?

Secondly, at distances beyond 15ft. raising a flash 12-18" above the lens is not much different in terms of modeling or red eye than flat lighting at closer distances. As the distance to the subject increases the height of the light also needs to be raised to maintain the same angle of light to face.

Thirdly, using a flash in fluid, candid situations where flash distance is constantly changing is far easier with a TTL metering than a manual flash. It can be done with manual quite predictably via pre-testing various power / distance combinations (been there / done that), but it isn't as convenient or quick: too many missed shots while aperture or power is adjusted.

If you have a situation where more light is needed in a large space it would be far more practical to park the AB in a corner or two aimed at the ceiling to raise the overall ambience of room (i.e. fill) and then use one or more hot shoe flashes on bracket / stand in ETTL mode. The two would be synchronized by connecting a radio trigger for the ABs to PC socket of the camera. Paramount cords also makes a modifed TTL cord which piggy-backs a generic hot shoe for a PW transmitter designed for use on a flash bracket.

Chuck

Dec 03, 2008 at 04:54 PM

AndyKellett
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p.1 #4 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

Mount an Alien Bee on a stand with wheels, fasten the Vagabond inverter/battery system to it and you are, literally, ready to roll. While I never considered it before, this might actually be useful for some types of eventing shooting. I cannot imagine holding the weight of my AB800 in my hand(s) for any length of time while shooting.
Best,
Andy

Dec 03, 2008 at 04:55 PM

Kalifornia
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p.1 #5 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

I shoot with an Olympus Digital Camera, what type (affordable) Hotshoe mounting flash unit could you members recommended,? I don't do a lot of candid or event work, So I can't really justify a high priced dust collector.

Thanks
Kal

Dec 03, 2008 at 10:28 PM

cgardner
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p.1 #6 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

Any number of inexpensive flash will work, but for "no brainer" flash use the best choice is usually a same brand flash which will fully integrate with the automatic metering of the camera. Here's a good resource for Olympus flash info: LINK

That said, simply adding a flash in the hot shoe really doesn't improve lighting much over a built-in flash, it simply gives you more range. Modeling of shape with light is a function of the direction of the light. But when a flash is moved off axis to create shadows a second source needs to remain over the lens to provide fill light to the shadows the off camera light creates.

So all things considered the best use of a single flash is as fill with sunlight as in these shots...

... or bounced off a wall or ceiling to change its direction

Bouncing flash off a white side wall is similar in effect to placing a softbox there. Its also possible to fill a room with nice even light by standing with your back a few feet in front of a wall and bouncing the flash backwards into the wall. Bouncing off the ceiling also works, but if the downward angle is too steep the brow will shade the eyes resulting in dark eye sockets. Adding a card or cap diffuser which will redirect some light forward for fill will help prevent that characteristic problem of ceiling bounce. The problem with bounce however is that there always isn't a convenient wall or ceiling and it wastes a great deal of power lighting up the parts of the room which are not in the photo.

Take a look at these two tutorials of mine which discuss when to use flash and various techniques for diffusing it.
When To Use Flash
Flash modification

Dec 04, 2008 at 12:27 AM

Kalifornia
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p.1 #7 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

"That said, simply adding a flash in the hot shoe really doesn't improve lighting much over a built-in flash, it simply gives you more range. Modeling of shape with light is a function of the direction of the light. But when a flash is moved off axis to create shadows a second source needs to remain over the lens to provide fill light to the shadows the off camera light creates".

But you cant use two lights, a main and a fill on a flash bracket ...Can You? I would like to put it all, on an off the lens axis bracket.

Thanks Kal

Dec 04, 2008 at 02:13 AM

cgardner
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p.1 #8 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

Kalifornia wrote:
"That said, simply adding a flash in the hot shoe really doesn't improve lighting much over a built-in flash, it simply gives you more range. Modeling of shape with light is a function of the direction of the light. But when a flash is moved off axis to create shadows a second source needs to remain over the lens to provide fill light to the shadows the off camera light creates".

But you cant use two lights, a main and a fill on a flash bracket ...Can You? I would like to put it all, on an off the lens axis bracket.

Thanks Kal

No. If you use a single flash the most effective positioning is on a bracket directly above the lens in both modes with a diffuser.

That allows you do use it diffused/direct or with a combination of bounce and direct by opening the top of the modifier. I usually use two flashes. One on the bracket and the second off camera on a converted IV stand I can pull around with one hand:

When I can predict where a person will be looking I will use short lighting.

In less predictable situations I'll just park the off camera light behind to add some rim lighting for the illusion of 3D and separation.

Click the WWW button and look in the Canon and hot shoe section for tutorials.

Chuck

Dec 04, 2008 at 02:23 AM

Kalifornia
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p.1 #9 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

Thanks to everyone for their help! ...Especially you Chuck! you seem to be quite an authority on this subject! ...I appreciate all the visuals you posted.

Thanks Again
Kal

Dec 04, 2008 at 01:21 PM

cgardner
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p.1 #10 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

Kalifornia wrote:
Thanks to everyone for their help! ...Especially you Chuck! you seem to be quite an authority on this subject! ...I appreciate all the visuals you posted.

I was just fortunate to have a good teacher and mentor starting out in photography and have had 35 years to experiment and practice

My first job out of college back in 1972 was working as Monte Zucker's assistant / 2nd shooter for about 2 years. He had introduced and popularized the simple but effective two-flash, bracketed "neutral" fill / wheeled stand key light candid approach to wedding photography a few years earlier.

The tools have changed somewhat but the same lighting strategies and candid shooting techniques still work very effectively.

Dec 04, 2008 at 01:32 PM

bacilonur
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p.1 #11 · Anyone Ever Tried This Before

This will actually become a lot more feasible once PCB release Eintein. It'll be awesome to have a (hopefully light) 500WS battery-powered, self-contained mono that will probably rival equivalent (non battery-powered) units for size and weight, given his history. I recall seeing some images of a guy who dumped a VBII into a backpack and plugged an ABR800 into it for some beach shooting. That'd work fine if you really need the power and fast recycling, as long as you're relatively fit or swap out the 20aH battery for a 7 or 10aH. But yeah, I'd much prefer a 580II for any on-camera light.

Dec 04, 2008 at 05:32 PM


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