Programmable chips - An initial report.

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Archive 2008 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

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p.1 #1 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

I just received my M42 adapters, with that new "user programmable" chip.

Well, it's not ALL good, yet, but so far there is much goodness to report. Here's the deal:

Ebay seller " Tagotech " (Singapore)

M42 adapter with chip, $45 delivered:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EURO-ETTL-AF-Confirm-Chip-on-M42-to-Canon-EOS-Adapter_W0QQitemZ260318863142QQihZ016QQcategoryZ30059QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

Chip alone (with alignment template) : $35 delivered

MY INITIAL REPORT FOLLOWS:

Edited on Dec 03, 2008 at 12:29 AM · View previous versions

Dec 03, 2008 at 12:03 AM

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p.1 #2 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

BUILD QUALITY:

First, These M42 adapters ARE anodized, not like the cheaper ones shown in the Bob Atkins review. They are also aluminum, and seem very well machined. They are not 2-piece, like the Kaiden Nikon type, but I doubt that matters with an M42 adapter.

They are flanged.

Infinity focus seems perfect, at least with the two lenses I have. (Vivitar series-1 200/3, and Mamiya ZX 135/2.8)

The only thing I dislike is that there is no locking mechanism, but that's also true of every other M42 adapter I've used or seen.

Considering that this chipped-adapter cost only $10 more than the chip alone, it's quite a bargain. -if the chip works!
----------------

The installed Chip looks VERY exposed. It's just out there on top, with no protection!
Perhaps this is also due to the M42 mechanism, but hopefully there's some way to add some protection on the sides. I'll have to experiment.

These adapters came with a Canon-type rear cap, and it's the GOOD kind, not the cheap kind that always falls off. Nice.
=================================================================

THE BAD NEWS:

So far, I haven't been able to figure out how to program the EXIF data. The instructions make no sense at all. Massive frustration ensues......

THE GOOD NEWS:

The chip is definitely giving some exposure & AF goodness, and this is pretty exciting. Here's the deal, as best as I can figure it out so far:

Once you set the initial AF reference (very easy) the focus-confirm works, but NOT in manual mode. You must be in AV mode.

Additionally, the bloody thing actually make the camera's AE work correctly, at least from f/4 on.
(The HappypageHK chip also does this.) With faster than f/2.8 or so, the metering seems a tad off, (slightly dark) but with f/2.8 and larger, it's amazingly dead-on. At all distances and all lighting scenarious - even indoors in semi-darkness. It feels like I have a Canon lens attached, set to manual focus.

Except for one more thing: You can't actually fire the shutter until you reach the focus point. This kind of blows if your calibration is off , or if you want to compose first, then focus, and your subject isn't centered.

Another uber-cool feature is that, in AV mode, You can hold down the shutter-button, then focus, and the shutter will trigger as soon as you hit the mark. This makes tracking a moving object child's play. This basically gives you autofocus, and auto-exposure to boot. - My HappypageHK chip does NOT do this. It's a beautiful thing.
---------------------------

If they can figure out how to make the exposure control work with fast apertures, this technology will really be something.

I'm wondering if the new Zeiss ZE lenses work this way? If not, I think I'd actually rather use a CZ with these chips.

Edited on Dec 05, 2008 at 06:34 AM · View previous versions

Dec 03, 2008 at 12:04 AM

Alex
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p.1 #3 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Cableaddict wrote:
Except for one more thing: You can't actually fire the shutter until you reach the focus point. This kind of blows if your calibration is off , though you can always switch the camera to manual mode, which disables the chip.

Will the shutter fire if AF is on the *-button? I hope it will...

Alex

Dec 03, 2008 at 12:42 AM

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p.1 #4 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Yep.

Dec 03, 2008 at 12:54 AM

Alex
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p.1 #5 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Good!

About the manual mode. Do you really mean that the chip doesn't work when the camera is in "M" metering mode? Sounds strange.

Alex

Dec 03, 2008 at 01:00 AM

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p.1 #6 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

That's correct. I assume they did this on purpose, so you can bypass the shutter lock-out feature.

In manual, you can still use the camera's internal meter (in the viewfinder) to set exposure.

BTW- I have noticed something new, which is good / bad depending on how you look at it:

Set your camera set to continuous fire, depress the shutter-button, and focus.

If you let 2 shots go, then release, the second shot will have a slightly brighter exposure, every time. While this "defect" would not be so good for continuous sports shootng, when just doing two quick pops, it's like exposure bracketing. Plus, you can get slightly different focused shots, if you turn the lens slowly & don't stop. Interesting....

Dec 03, 2008 at 01:20 AM

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p.1 #7 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

I wonder if a CF will completely bypass shutter lock out. Maybe Shutter release without lens set to yes?

Dec 03, 2008 at 01:32 AM

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p.1 #8 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

DC,

What is "CF" ?

Dec 03, 2008 at 04:38 AM

mawz
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p.1 #9 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Cableaddict wrote:
DC,

What is "CF" ?

Custom Function

Dec 03, 2008 at 04:44 AM

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p.1 #10 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Continuous Focus, as opposed to single focus. If set to Continuous Focus, a Canon should fire whether the lens is in focus or not.

Robert

Dec 03, 2008 at 12:46 PM

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p.1 #11 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Sounds very good! I've emailed them to ask if they're going to release them prefitted to C/Y and Leica-R (don't fancy the glue and template thing myself).

Did you find the instructions hard to follow or that you could follow them and they seemed to be wrong? I read them and they did make sense... just... to me.

Dec 03, 2008 at 01:17 PM

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p.1 #12 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Foxbat, the instructions completely leave out important points, and are dead-wrong in other areas.

Evidently, part of the puzzle is contained not in the instructions, but in the Bob Atkins review. I did not read that review carefully, because Atkins was reviewing an older version of the chip, with lesser functions. I think probably I'm one of the first people to get this new-version chip, hence all the confusion.

I have been working with the seller "Paul" to figure this all out. He is aware that the instructions are worthless. I must say, Paul has really spent some time with me trying to help. Can't ask for more than that.

So, no worries as I will soon have compiled new instructions that make sense.

-Once I get it all working. Which should be tomorrow. (have to work all day & tonight as well)

Dec 03, 2008 at 01:55 PM

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p.1 #13 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

UPDATE:

After much emailing back & forth with the seller, and trying all sorts of work-arounds, I simply give up. these chips are defective. THEY WILL NOT GO INTO PROGRAMMING-MODE. (to set the EXIF data)

Period.

Additionally, it turns out that I was wrong about being able to bypass the shutter-lockout feature. I thought that you could do so in manual mode, but what I was seeing was simply an intermittent chip, sometimes working & sometimes not. What you CAN do in manual mode is gain control over exposure, just like with any other lens.

There was some hope that you could bypass the shutter-lockout by switching to AI-Servo mode.
Sadly, while this DOES block that feature, it also causes all sorts of problems with the camera, including stuck shutters and "error" messages in the LCD.

The seller has stopped responding to my emails, esp the last one where I requested a return / refund. I believe he is selling rejects, hence the low price.

STAY FAR AWAY.

If things change, I'll report back, but it looks pretty dismal right now.

Dec 05, 2008 at 02:20 AM

JimBuchanan
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p.1 #14 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

I am not as far along with this new chip as Allan, but I took the included template and reinforced it with cardboard to fit better, and epoxied a chip to the back of an adapter. Sometimes the height of the adapter is not sufficient for the chip to reach the camera sensors, but this was not the case with the adapters I use. I then programmed the chip to report the focal length and f/stop to the camera. I confirmed this in Lightroom. The aperture shows on my XSi camera. The lens happened to be a f/1.7, but the chip software doesn't allow odd numbers, so I had to choose 1.8, or 1.6.

That's all I did, and didn't have any problems. I will admit the instructions are techno-geek. Who needs videogames or crossword puzzles, or soduku, when you have instructions like that.

Dec 05, 2008 at 03:02 AM

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p.1 #15 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Jim,

Can you explain to me how you got the chip to enter program mode? Mine simply will not (two different chips.)

I tried manual w/ 15 seconds. I tried bulb mode. I tried turning off & on the camera before re-clicking the bayonnette (suggested by the seller)

Also, do you see the "5" in the display, as the instructions indicate? The seller tells me that you don't always get the "5" yet can still be in program mode (sounds fishy to me) Even so, when I switch it to AV mode, I get no aperture number-changes as I turn the dial, so I can't program it.

Also, do you know how to EXIT programming mode? The instructions give two mutually-exclusive answers for this, in different sections.

JimBuchanan wrote:
The lens happened to be a f/1.7, but the chip software doesn't allow odd numbers, so I had to choose 1.8, or 1.6.

It's not odd numbers, per se. (unless, by "odd," you meant "non-standard.")

According to the seller, these chips cannot be programmed for any number that doesn't show in the camera's read-out. This kind of sucks, as one of my M42 lenses is a 135mm f/2.3, and the other is a 200mm f/3. Neither can be programmed correctly!

-But a moot point if I can't even get it into program mode at all..

-Also a moot point if there's no way to defeat the shutter-lockout feature. That's a cool feature to have, for certain situations, but I could NEVER deal with having it on all the time. No way.
Jim, I'm curious to know if you can do this via AI-servo mode, or do you get the same horrid frozen-shutter problems that I'm getting?

Edited on Dec 05, 2008 at 04:01 AM · View previous versions

Dec 05, 2008 at 03:38 AM

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p.1 #16 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

robsteve wrote:
Continuous Focus, as opposed to single focus. If set to Continuous Focus, a Canon should fire whether the lens is in focus or not.
Robert

Robert, that's what Canon calls "Ai Servo" mode. It works, but causes other, severe problems, like the shutter staying open as if in bulb-mode. (!) -see above.

Dec 05, 2008 at 04:00 AM

Alex
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p.1 #17 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Cabbleaddict,
You can defeat the shutter-lockout feature if you put your AF to *-button (custom function 4 in Canon 5d).

I also have my share of problems with these chips. My success is partial. I was able to program my aperture to 3.5 (never saw aperture 5 either). After that I'm not able to enter into programming mode any more.

Will try my second chip after the glue hardens.

Alex

Dec 05, 2008 at 04:13 AM

Alex
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p.1 #18 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

I've been able to program both my chips. Probably, the initial problem was caused by some glue residue on electrodes. I followed the instruction litterally. The only difference is that I always keep my AF on the *-button, so I can fire at my will regrdless of the focus. When I go to Av after entering the program mode I see the previously used apperture (not 5).

I tested one of the chips with my Contax 35-70mm. With initial settings the focus confirmation backfocused severily. I was able to use the focus adjustment in the chip to fine tune the long zoom end. The short end slightly frontfocuses now. I don't think that this is a chip problem - the same thing was happenning when I used other brand chip. The focus adjustment thing would be a great feature for prime lenses.

Unfortunately I couldn't finish my experiments because both my chips fell off the adapters. Guys, please, tell me what kind of glue I should use.

Alex

Dec 05, 2008 at 03:27 PM

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p.1 #19 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Alex, you must have different directions from mine. (seriously) Either that, or my chips are both defective, and yours are not. (very possible)

Can you please (PLEASE!) outline the exact steps you used? I don't need the command-input numbers, just how to get in AND OUT of program mode. (I think I finally got IN, by using a 30 second shutter, but no idea how to get OUT. My 200mm lens reads 55mm in the EXIF.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Also: Do you program the FL, leave program mode, then go back to program mode to set the aperture number? What aperture numbers have you been able to input?

Alex wrote: I was able to use the focus adjustment in the chip to fine tune the long zoom end.

My instructions don't explain how to do this adjustment at all. Literally.
The seller keeps ignoring my question about this.

Can you also tell me how to do this?

Thanks a ton.

Dec 05, 2008 at 04:06 PM

JimBuchanan
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p.1 #20 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

To start, once you "input data", meaning you are in "program mode" and choose "command input", the logic kicks you out of "program mode", and you have to start over. So, it takes 2 "program mode" sessions to set focal length and f/stop.

http://www.tagotech.com/pic/chip_programming_instruction_20nov08.pdf

This is the chip you have, right?

I use 5 minute 2-part epoxy to fix the chip to the adapter.

Dec 05, 2008 at 05:16 PM

Alex
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p.1 #21 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Jim,
Loctite 5 min epoxy is what I used. I guess, I'm just clumsy. Will try one more time.

Alex

Dec 05, 2008 at 05:39 PM

Alex
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p.1 #22 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Cableaddict,
You camera must be enabled for 1/3 aperture increments (not 1/2). To get in the program mode I use M 13 seconds - a) disconnect lens, b) half pres shutter, c) while keeping the shutter hulfpressed turn the lens back, d) fire. You ARE in the program mode now. Go to Av. Now you should be able to select the aperture using the usual dial.

To change the EXIF aperture a) select f/4 and fire, and b) select the apperture you want and fire again. The chip is now OUT of the proram mode and programmed for whatever aperture you selected in the step b) above.

To change the EXIF focal length you have to start it over from entering the program mode. When you are in the program mode go to Av and a) select f/5.6 and fire, b) you have to select different apertures (according to their table) and fire five more times. For example to encode 52mm (which is according to them is 00052) I had to fire three times f/4, one time f/7.1 and one time f/5.0. Now you are again OUT of the program mode and you focal length is programmed.

Alex

Dec 05, 2008 at 05:55 PM

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p.1 #23 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Thanks, Alex.

I am discovering some sources of my problems slowly.

1: I had to set my shutter to THIRTY seconds, in order to enter Program-mode. 13 seconds does not work. Evidently, some chips are shipping with much longer program-delay times than the ten-second default that they are supposed to have.

2: Tthe instructions appear to be dead-wrong about bulb-mode being another option for entering the chip's program-mode.

3: The instructions erroneous say your will see f/5.0 if program-mode has been successfully entered.

4: The instructions, in one section, say that you must fire a shot, at "the selected aperture" to EXIT program-mode. this is completely false as well. It is now clear that program-mode ends automatically, once a proper command/numerics sequence is entered.

Then as you say Alex, Program mode must be entered TWICE. Once for FL, then again for aperture.
------------------------------------------------------

There's lots more mistakes & circular logic in those bloody instructions. (at least the instructions I have) Not good for a "literal" guy like me. Looks like there's still hope for my chips

I see now how to do the calibration as well. I have figured out which parts of the instructions to throw away. fog is lifting.

Not sure about "AF" mode vs "MF" mode, but one thing at a time. Hopefully, "MF" mode has to do with defeating the shutter-lockout. Hope so, since AI-servo mode causes nothing but grief.

Edited on Dec 05, 2008 at 10:32 PM · View previous versions

Dec 05, 2008 at 06:37 PM

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p.1 #24 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Alex wrote:
...... you have to select different apertures (according to their table) and fire five more times. For example to encode 52mm (which is according to them is 00052) I had to fire three times f/4, one time f/7.1 and one time f/5.0. Now you are again OUT of the program mode and you focal length is programmed.

Thanks, Alex.(& Jim) You are following the instructions, and it is working for you. Glad to know this. This helps me understand. Sadly, the same proceedure does NOT work for me. The chip doesn't quit program-mode, and doesn't set any EXIF data. Ughh.

There may still be hope for these chips, we shall see...

Edited on Dec 22, 2008 at 04:52 AM · View previous versions

Dec 05, 2008 at 07:22 PM

Alex
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p.1 #25 · Programmable chips - An initial report.

Ok, here are my final results.

I bought and installed 3 chips. I'm using them on Contax 35-70mm, Contax 80-200mm and Tamron Adaptall 17mm (through Adaptall to Olympus and Olympus to EOS adapters). After initial period of confusion, which was probably caused by my messy glue work, all three chips can be programmed/reprogrammed any time I want.

The chips can work in two modes. The first (default) mode is AF which according to the chip designes emulates a Canon lens with the switch in AF position. This is a unique feature of these chips. The second mode is M mode which emulates a Canon lens with the switch in the M position. The authors claim that the AF mode is much more precisize than the M mode. A few tests I did seem to confirm this statement.

The AF mode comes with a couple of quirks. First, your shutter is blocked until you get a focus confirmation. The only way to overcome this is to program your camera AF to the *-button. It is my default choice anyway. The second "feature" is not documented. Before focusing you have to defocus the lens severely. If the lens is almost focused the camera will give a focus confirmation right away resulting in less than perfect focus.

A great feature of the chips is that they allow a focus adjustment similar to micro-focus adjustment of the modern cameras. There are 17 position for correction of front/back focus. The adjustment seems to work in both AF and M modes. I feel that it would've been nice to have even finer granularity.

I found that the zooms needed different adjustments for the short and the long ends. I had to split the difference and settle for a median position which is a little bit off for the short/long ends.

All in all, I'm happy with the chips and would recommend them.

Alex

Dec 10, 2008 at 05:48 AM


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