fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3       end
  

Archive 2008 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS

  
 
Ariel Bravy
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


This weekend I shoot a cheer event here in Atlanta for our friend Hammy. He was in Houston this weekend, but two of his 200 1.8's were here in Atlanta. I shot the event with a loaner 200 f2 IS that came in a few days ago from CPS. Gotta love free toys!

The second day they had awards throughout the day and once we got to the last set of awards, before we tore down the computers, I pulled out both his 200 1.8's and compared it to my 200 f2 and I noticed a bunch of improvements in the newer model that I'd like to reflect back to you guys.

First a pair of pics so that it makes it easier to visualize what I'm saying.

200 1.8, courtesy of the-digital-picture.com

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4444/20018vq4.jpg


200 f2, courtesy of Canon:

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7758/200f2fz0.jpg


The 200 1.8 is front-heavy. The f2 balances better in my hand.

With the 1.8, because it's more front-heavy, you have to hold it closer towards the front element. The problem with this is two-fold:

1) Your hand is right on both the focus ring and the ribbed metal focus preset ring. I didn't shoot with the 1.8 much and I don't know how much of an issue this'd be in actual shooting, but it was annoying to have that feeling in my hand.

Because your hand is farther back on the f2, there's less of your hand crowding the focus ring, lessening the possibility of accidentally knocking focus off. And at such wide apertures, DOF is crazy thin, even if you're more than just a few meters away.

2) The focus switches stick out from the side of the 1.8 which is annoying in your palm. Also, the AF/MF switch is right where your palm would be if you were supporting the lens in your left hand while shooting vertically which I typically do.

Look at the f2. The switches are all flat. If you're shooting vertically, you can turn the ring upside down and because the weight is shifted farther back, your hand slides back farther, giving you more empty real estate to place your hand. Also, the AF/MF switch has been moved to no-man's land so there's basically no possible way you could accidentally knock your lens into MF. This is a problem I've had repeatedly with the 70-200 2.8 IS and so I've gaffered over the switch on that lens to lock it in AF.

The ribbed preset focus ring is on the far side of the focus ring on the f2 as well, a big help, IMHO.

I shot the majority of the event off a monopod and found the AF-stop buttons very useful. I typically shot with the right-most AF point selected (top if you're shooting vertically), occasionally shifting down a point. There were times I'd want to use all 45 points, such as if a girl was tumbling through the air of if she was sitting on the ground sticking her leg up or something and I'd want to focus on her body which is lower in the frame. When this situation would arise, I'd simply hit the AF-stop button on the lens to temporarily enable all 45 AF points (via custom function) when needed. That was a big help. (That third thumb button to the left of the * button was set to center point AF, but I never use that button...)

If you put the 1.8 and the 2 face-to-face, the 1.8 is ever so slightly larger, but not to a noticeable degree.

I like the lens foot much better on the 2.0. It's longer and farther away from the body so it makes for a great handle. One of the 1.8's had the native lens foot which was pretty stubby. The other had the RRS replacement foot w/ QR dovetails. It's longer than the Canon foot, but still closer to the body and so it's a tight fit for your fingers. I like the added height both for the handle and because it raises the lens up just high enough to where when I shoot with the monopod and that bogen swivel head, I wouldn't have to stoop.

The lens collar has notches every 90 degrees on the 2.0 which is a BIG help. Neither the 1.8 nor the 70-200 2.8 IS do this. It makes it so easy to get the lens collar into position and not have to fine tune it so that it's in alignment with the tripod/monopod.

The drop-in filter is a bit different. On the 1.8, you press a button down and lift the filter. The 2.0 is a pinch and lift design. Not sure which design I prefer, but leaning towards the 2.0.

The IS is amazing. If you need the 1.8, you need the 1.8, but when it comes to low-light still photography, that 5-stop IS is unbelievable and blows away the third-stop difference in maximum aperture.

The lens is handholdable, but will tire out your hand after a little while. Look at the metal label on top of the lens that has the lens designation written on it. On the 1.8, it's on the main barrel of the lens. On the 2, it's on the lens collar. When you're shooting vertically, your thumb may rest on that metal thing. As your hand starts to get slippery and needs to clamp down on the lens to keep it tight, that metal thing starts to slip against the thumb. The traction isn't as good as the white textured surface of the body. On the f2, you can easily rotate that metal plate out of the way.

As far as sample shots, I don't really have any to share. This impression was mainly from a usability point of view as you can see. From what I've seen this weekend, the f2 is DEAD SEXY and I look forward to using it for some portraits this week. The look you get is more magical than the 2.8 lenses wide open. With 2.8 you get a nice blurry background. At f2, what background?

Edited on Nov 16, 2008 at 11:47 PM · View previous versions



Nov 16, 2008 at 10:36 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Ariel Bravy wrote:
The lens collar has notches every 90 degrees on the 2.0 which is a BIG help. Neither the 1.8 nor the 70-200 2.8 IS do this. It makes it so easy to get the lens collar into position and not have to fine tune it so that it's in alignment with the tripod/monopod.



Good report, Ariel.
One minor correction. The 200 f/1.8 pod mount ring does rotate to +/- 90 deg detents. In fact, the rotation and detents feel better (more solid and smooth) than on the 200 f/2 IS. Now, if Hammy's 200 f/1.8 copy did not exibit that quality, then the pod ring might have been knackered.



Nov 16, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Ariel Bravy
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Ah, thanks for correcting me. I checked that specifically and perhaps his well-worn copy no longer had the detents. Either way I clearly missed it. Perhaps his other copy, which looked newer, still had them.

I know you actually own both lenses, PetKal. Do you have a preference in certain situations?



Nov 16, 2008 at 11:31 PM
wtlloyd
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #4 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


I sold him his other, newer copy. The detents do work fine on that lens. That was one sweet copy, I just didn't use it enough...

Sure miss it. I hope the 600mm f/4.0IS I am picking up Tuesday makes me miss it less



Thanks for doing the comparison, it's about what I expected. That f/1.8 lens is a bit bothersomely front-heavy....By the way, it's a great landscape lens!



Nov 16, 2008 at 11:42 PM
Ariel Bravy
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


200 1.8 for landscape? I'm having trouble picturing that... do you have any sample shots?


Nov 16, 2008 at 11:47 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Ariel Bravy wrote:
I know you actually own both lenses, PetKal. Do you have a preference in certain situations?


Ariel, if I was doing photography for money, I'd probably use the 200 f/2 almost exclusively......as you said yourself, the lens is lighter and IS is very effective. Besides, If I'd break it, no problems in getting it fixed.

However, the old 200 f/1.8 feels like a comfortable pair of well worn shoes. The lens is a bit clumsy in my hands but there is nothing clumsy about its performance. A keen and mean lens with totally dependable excellence. I don't think I had a single OoF shot with it. However, I am using it sparingly these days because it would be a major problem to get it repaired.

Be that as it may, both lenses are excellent performers. However, as it often happens, the new/modern design is hard to beat not only for reasons of performance but also maintenance logistics.



Nov 16, 2008 at 11:56 PM
PetKal
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Ariel Bravy wrote:
200 1.8 for landscape? I'm having trouble picturing that... do you have any sample shots?


Landscaping ? Sure thing, the 200 f/2 IS does landscaping too. (Image 1)
The image 2 might include some landscape, although that was not the shot purpose (200 f/1.8).

Please note that for both shots the lenses were wide open. Shot as JPG. No postprocessing as we are trying to illustrate the lens, not Photoshop, capabilities here.

Edit: Found a 200 f/2 IS shot that could be called "landscape". Unfortunately, this kinda high Mp files suffer most from web resizing. So I am not sure what one can get from it.

Edited on Nov 18, 2009 at 04:50 AM · View previous versions



Nov 17, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Focus Locus
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Ariel, did you use IS in cheer? I thought (or read somewhere) that the fast pace of cheer didn't give IS a chance to stabilize. In fact, I think it was Hammy who said he never uses IS.

Also, when you mention 5 stops of IS being "better" than the difference between 1.8 and 2.0, what did you mean? In terms of delivering more rays of scarce light to the sensor? Or do you just mean hand holdability?

RRS recently revised the LCF-40 lens plate for the 200/1.8 to make it even longer. Hammy may not have had the newest LCF-40 plate on his (obviously used) copies.

I've shot with both lenses, and the 2.0 is lighter, has a foot more like the 400... but shooting with a monopod and a tilting head, neither the weight, the foot design, the foot placement, nor the IS are as significant of factors.

The ability to gather more light in the absense of the same cannot be mitigated with updated ergonomics. For this reason, there still seems to be adequate justification for keeping the 1.8 version.

I wonder about color rendition between the two?



Nov 18, 2008 at 01:32 PM
dcmiller
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


I wish the 135/2 was much more expensive so I could justify the 200/2. Someone please tell me that the resale on the 200/2 is so good that it's more like an investment..........

(Now it's five stops IS?? Do I hear six? who will give me six??)



Nov 18, 2008 at 01:58 PM
deepbluejh
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


oh come on... show us some pics


Nov 18, 2008 at 02:04 PM
CMOS
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Slightly OT here, but if you were going to use one of those lenses on a monopod, what sort of head/mount would be best?


Nov 18, 2008 at 02:39 PM
Peter Figen
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


"The ability to gather more light in the absense of the same cannot be mitigated with updated ergonomics. For this reason, there still seems to be adequate justification for keeping the 1.8 version."

Remember that it's more than just the 1/3 stop wider aperture, you have to also add to that the approximately 1/3 stop greater transmission of the 1.8, which gives you about 2/3 of a stop faster shutter speed. In the last few months I've been shooting a lot of poorly lit nightclub images of the band Vaud and the Villains (girlfriend is the accordion player) and there is simply no other lens that suffices in there. IS is great but it won't freeze the action in front of the lens and too often I'm below 1/100 at ISO 3200.

I've shot comparisons between both lenses and can't see a lick of difference between them other than the transmission loss previously mentioned. I do like the fact that the newer lens is lighter and more handholdable, but it's not enough to get me to trade up yet.

Yeah, the 200 1.8 makes a killer landscape lens in the right location, and because it's so sharp to the very corners with no distortion, it stitches very well too.



Nov 18, 2008 at 03:02 PM
crfrey71
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


I definitely prefer the older lens mounts on the telephotos over the ones on the IS lenses. The older lens mount, the lens move so much smoother when switching from portrait to landscape and vice versa.


Nov 18, 2008 at 05:07 PM
Ariel Bravy
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Focus Locus wrote:
Ariel, did you use IS in cheer? I thought (or read somewhere) that the fast pace of cheer didn't give IS a chance to stabilize. In fact, I think it was Hammy who said he never uses IS.


I tried it for a minute during one of the groups, mode 2, and found it to be more of a hindrance than anything else. It did a good job of steadying the viewfinder, but I find that the lens movement is way too rapid and all over the place to have IS do any good. I quickly disabled it.

I also tried playing with the focus limiter. At 3.5m, I can get everything except for headshots of the girls who are right at the front of the stage. With the focus limiter set to 1.9m-infinity, focus racks out way too much to make up for the closer focusing abilities, especially when using the off-center AF points and on girls with dark skin.

Also, when you mention 5 stops of IS being "better" than the difference between 1.8 and 2.0, what did you mean? In terms of delivering more rays of scarce light to the sensor? Or do you just mean hand holdability?

I was in no way lacking light for this shoot. ISO 500, f2, 1/800.

The third of a stop in aperture isn't too too much extra light, but the ability to stabilize low-light static shots is a huge plus.

For example, Hammy wanted us to shoot some of the stage light rigs above the stage for future reference purposes. With the lights out, we're talking ISO 1600, f2, 1/15. I tried shooting the rigs with the 1.8, but quickly switched to the f2 for its IS.

I've shot with both lenses, and the 2.0 is lighter, has a foot more like the 400... but shooting with a monopod and a tilting head, neither the weight, the foot design, the foot placement, nor the IS are as significant of factors.

A monopod definitely negates these factors.

The ability to gather more light in the absense of the same cannot be mitigated with updated ergonomics. For this reason, there still seems to be adequate justification for keeping the 1.8 version.

Definitely. When you need the speed, you need the speed!



Nov 18, 2008 at 06:09 PM
Aberdeen Photo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #15 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Ariel,

What were your opinions of the 2? IQ, sharpness, oofs etc.

Peter, could you explain transmission?

Thanks,

Tom



Nov 18, 2008 at 08:40 PM
BrianP
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #16 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Aberdeen Photo wrote:
Peter, could you explain transmission?

Thanks,

Tom


I am not Peter, but I can explain this. There is a difference between f-stop and t-stop. Please see here...

http://photonotes.org/cgi-bin/entry.pl?id=Tstop

Essentially what it means in this case is that although both lenses might be set at the same aperture, the amount of light hitting the sensor is different. Many people have stated that the 200 f/2L IS let's in approximately 1/3 stop less light than the 200 f/1.8L does at the same aperture. This effectively gives you an additional 1/3 stop loss in light which is why he said it is more like a 2/3 stop difference in shutter speed (comparing max aperture of both lenses). This can be more significant if you are trying to stop action which is one of the purposes of this fast lens, so it may make a bigger difference to some shooters as to which one would be best for them.



Nov 18, 2008 at 09:04 PM
Ariel Bravy
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Aberdeen Photo wrote:
Ariel,

What were your opinions of the 2? IQ, sharpness, oofs etc.


Brilliant. In my own personal experimentation, IQ and sharpness is fantastic, even wide open at 100%.

Focus accuracy is outstanding. I've used it on a Mark IIn and on a Mark III, without adjusting for any AF microadjustment. Any OOF issues were due to user error or someone jumping in front of the subject (very common in cheer) right as I was pressing the shutter button.

It does have trouble with low-light, low contrast AF with each body I've tested, but perhaps it's more of a body issue. Both the 1.8 and the 2 had the same level of focus accuracy.



Nov 18, 2008 at 10:17 PM
Aberdeen Photo
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Thanks Ariel and Brian,

Tom



Nov 18, 2008 at 11:27 PM
Bearmann
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


First off, I'm no expert on this, however, I question this business about the extra 1/3 of a stop.

John Shaw states in his book An f-number is a value representing the quantity of light passing through the diaphragm when the lens is focused at infinity. The "f" is an abbreviation for "factor" and describes the mathematical ratio of the focal length divided by the diameter of the effective aperture, which may not be the same as physical diameter because the light rays entering the front element of the lens are converged towards the diaphragm. (the bold emphasis is mine)

So you are saying that if I shoot a perfect exposure with an 85mm lens set to f 1.8 that has an f-stop equaling it's T-stop, the 200mm 1.8 lens set wide open at f 1.8 will overexpose the scene by 1/3 of a stop. Lens building techniques and measuring abilities may have improved since the 200 1.8 was manufactured, however, I would think that an L lens of this quality is the aperture that they say it is.

Barry



Nov 19, 2008 at 12:33 AM
garyvot
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · Comparing the 200 1.8 and 200 2.0 IS


Bearmann wrote:
First off, I'm no expert on this, however, I question this business about the extra 1/3 of a stop.


It's not that uncommon for lenses to transmit less light at maximum aperture than their rated f-stop would indicate. (If you like, you can think of it as vignetting that extends over most of the frame.) A few I can think of off the top of my head are the 28 1.8, 85 1.8 and 20 2.8. Most of Canon's long tele primes don't really show this effect, but it sounds like the 200 2.0 may to some degree. (I have yet to use this lens, unfortunately.)



Nov 19, 2008 at 01:10 AM
       2       3       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

       2       3       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account