I have a mini-studio configuration, with umbrellas on tripod, reflectors, etc... and I use the CLS with three slaves (SB-600 and SB-800). This is working well, but the power is limited.
I would like to add more flexibility and more power. I have been looking at strobes and I was wondering if somebody has experience with both. I will anyway go for strobes because I want the added functionality of the modelling lamps, the extra accessories (snoot, softboxes etc...), and the power supply.
My question is how many stops do you typically win between an SB-800 (GN 38 ?) flash and a 500Ws strobe for instance (GN 68).
If you're working in a small space, sometimes the problem is having too much power. Lower powered strobes, such as 200-400 ws heads (e.g., Elinchrom D-Lites or the Style series like the 400 BX, AB 400 and 800, etc.) are pretty cheap, have digital control, and can be used with some of the best light modifiers.
This might sound odd, but you might start with selecting any new, additional modifiers you might be using in the near-term and then select your strobe system. I like Elinchrom modifiers, so I have a few of their lights -- the speedrings are a perfect match.
The 100-200 watt modeling lights, common on most of the lower powered strobes, give you a general sense of light distribution but they're no match for what actually comes out of the heads, particularly at full-pop.
You will gain several stops, depending on your modifier. I have a chart somewhere that compares several common monolights to speedlights -- all either bare bulb or with a standard reflector. I'll see if I can find it.
Also consider whether you may want to do location work. Some like to use battery packs, like PB's Vagabond or Elinchroms Ranger series (the Ranger uses which different heads). Some will use the Rangers, for example, in the studio as well as on location. It's sort of a universal solution and one I'm considering for myself.
I can trigger the strobes with a speedlight (the heads have optical slaves built-in) or I can trigger SB-800's with the strobes when the speedlight is set to SU-4 mode.
loads, you'll be turning the strobes down. there is no comparison in my opinion. search around Europe, there is usually some place selling old stock dirt cheap. i pick up 2x300w and a 600w for 500 pounds form the UK. so much easier.
Let me add that it's best to start with just one or two studio lights -- one for key and one for fill lets say. Wrangling too many lights at once without learning how just one light/modifer combo works, as you well know, is really hard. But the cool thing about having a mix of strobes and speelights is that the speedlights are great for things like rim lights, hair lights, etc.
Strobes are the only way to go. If as said you have the space and it helps to have a taller than average ceiling.
You can pick up an older set such as the SpeedOTron 2400A I have had for years for practically nothing. The box is heavy but in over 20 years the light it puts out hasn't changed and is the model of consistency. As Ted said KIS there are a lot of options for lighting and it's easy to get wrapped up in it.
Beware Elinchrom uses a thinner umbrella hole so some of your current umbrellas may not fit. There's always a couple of recommendation threads going over in the Lighting forum.
Used Dynalite systems are also good values if you want a pack and head.
A 1.4x increase in GN equals one stop of light, so from 38m to 68m is not quite two stops. That may not sound like much, but two stops is 4x the light. Keep in mind that the methods of testing and reporting strobe light output are controversial and there's no uniform standard. But you can pretty safely assume that a 600 w/s strobe will match the output of four SB800's. That number may be as high as six, or even eight if some of the strobe makers' claims are to be believed.
Numbers aside, you can't operate a proper studio setup with speedlights. As you already pointed out, the power, power supply and availability of modifiers are completely different. You can add recycle time, durability and precise controllability as equally important improvements. Probably a few more I'm not thinking of right now.
Guy - Its not the almanac of lighting but strobist.com has taught me SOO much about lighting, Im blown away by the knowledge on that site. I had 3 alien bee's and they were always too bright and backing them up only made the light harsh. I found using speedlghts worked better for me after learning how to place them more efficiently. YMMV.. oh and david hobby touches on the "square inverse rule of light" or something like that
It's not just the increased power but the ability to provide that power at lower color temperatures. My SB-800 flash units are typically 6500K whereas my Profoto studio lights are daylight balanced and after reflecting from a 5ft Photoflex umbrella come out about 5000K. You need the extra power mostly because of the reflectors and umbrellas that chew up several stops of it, I've only used mine (2400WS) in direct mode when I've been trying light an entire dance floor in a large building (and then I was firing them at the ceiling).
Quality of light is very subjective but skin tones I can get with the Profoto's are unmatched by the SB-800.
Darn those nice frosted glass domes and expensive flash tubes Profoto uses I'd love a D4 and 4 Pro Heads... and a Honda generator. Or maybe a Bron Verso system...
Darn those nice frosted glass domes and expensive flash tubes Profoto uses I'd love a D4 and 4 Pro Heads... and a Honda generator. Or maybe a Bron Verso system...
Me too, unfortunately the D4 was out of my price range and the D2 does everything I need. Setting the ratios and power on three heads is like playing a game of checkers with all the different knobs and switches on the D2. Having a pack that can drive four heads and control each one independently, and be computer controlled to boot.
One can never have too much artificial light. I own the SB-800 and Canon 550EX, and presume they are roughly equal in lumens. Based on my metered testing of the latter through a softbox, I agree with Jammy about the 70Ws. In general, it's hard to compare the fresnel lens (and zoom) of a camera-mounted flash with a bare bulb. Of course, studio lights are irreplaceable for their energy, modifiers and modelling lights (I do have the Profoto D4). Such lights, however, are often too powerful at their lowest setting, so the SB-800 can serve a useful purpose in the studio.
I have both speedlights and studio strobes. I was in fact thinking of selling most of my studio strobes, softboxes etc because I am doing mostly outdoor or location work and am using the speedlights more and more, and the studio strobes less and less. I have 4x Elinchrom Style 400FX heads, various SBs and brollies, snoots, grids and so on, and I am finding that often by the time I have them all set up and ready to go, my current studio is just too small. So, for me, I am ready to use speedlights for just about everything. I was going to put my Elinchrom stuff on e-bay this coming weekend.... so this discussion is coming at an interesting turning point for me too. Perhaps others will persuade me to keep them, but it's something I have been thinking about for a while.
DaveEP wrote:
I have both speedlights and studio strobes. I was in fact thinking of selling most of my studio strobes, softboxes etc because I am doing mostly outdoor or location work and am using the speedlights more and more, and the studio strobes less and less. I have 4x Elinchrom Style 400FX heads, various SBs and brollies, snoots, grids and so on, and I am finding that often by the time I have them all set up and ready to go, my current studio is just too small. So, for me, I am ready to use speedlights for just about everything. I was going to put my Elinchrom stuff on e-bay this coming weekend.... so this discussion is coming at an interesting turning point for me too. Perhaps others will persuade me to keep them, but it's something I have been thinking about for a while....Show more →
Dave,
I think you will find a speedlight-only approach for outdoor use challenging. When you need to overpower daylight, even just one powerful head goes a long way.
Take a look at the post from shatterkiss (fifth post down) in this current Lighting forum thread. Note his examples which include full-powered pops from a 1200 w/s head, to nothing but reflectors and ambient light.
turnert wrote:
I think you will find a speedlight-only approach for outdoor use challenging. When you need to overpower daylight, even just one powerful head goes a long way.
~Ted
Thanks for the link. Fortunately (or not as the case may be), I don't live in a part of the world where I would have this kind of problem that often! Today was 'sunny' but even a single SB-800 was enough to overcome the daylight !
DaveEP wrote:
Thanks for the link. Fortunately (or not as the case may be), I don't live in a part of the world where I would have this kind of problem that often! Today was 'sunny' but even a single SB-800 was enough to overcome the daylight !
Yes, the same goes for me; a northerly latitude and more overcast days than clear days. But at least the air quality is better here than in Los Angeles.
Justin Huffman wrote:
Guy - Its not the almanac of lighting but strobist.com has taught me SOO much about lighting, Im blown away by the knowledge on that site. I had 3 alien bee's and they were always too bright and backing them up only made the light harsh. I found using speedlghts worked better for me after learning how to place them more efficiently. YMMV.. oh and david hobby touches on the "square inverse rule of light" or something like that
I've been using 2-3 SB800s outside for a couple of years now, and have come to realize that even in mid-winter at 45 degrees North, I cannot balance full sunlight. Particularly not when using bounce or umbrellas.
What would be a reasonably light and portable (and preferably fast cycling) 1-2 head set-up that I could reasonably carry to skiing locations?
I'd love a D4 and 4 Pro Heads... and a Honda generator. Or maybe a Bron Verso system... 
I own the SB-800 and Canon 550EX, and presume they are roughly equal in lumens. Based on my metered testing of the latter through a softbox, I agree with Jammy about the 70Ws. In general, it's hard to compare the fresnel lens (and zoom) of a camera-mounted flash with a bare bulb. Of course, studio lights are irreplaceable for their energy, modifiers and modelling lights (I do have the Profoto D4). Such lights, however, are often too powerful at their lowest setting, so the SB-800 can serve a useful purpose in the studio.