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winzphoto
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p.1 #1 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

Anyone been through Zions (and specifically the Subway) in the last week or so? Any color yet?
If you've been through in the past to shoot Autumn, what is the best time to catch peak colors?

Thanks!

Oct 14, 2008 at 03:55 PM

mihind24
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p.1 #2 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

I did the Narrows hike last week. I would say the first half of the hike, through to the campgrounds, have great colors. Yellows and reds, really quite beautiful. The second day I saw very little color at the lower elevations. Mostly greens, and some were starting to turn yellow. Not sure about the rest of the park, I only did the hike then left.

Oct 14, 2008 at 04:15 PM

prcentauri1
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p.1 #3 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

couple of quick questions...

1. do i need a permit to hike the subway from below?
2. do i need a permit to hike the narrows? if so, from what directions?
3. is there a difference hiking the narrows from above vs. below?

Oct 14, 2008 at 04:22 PM

CarpeyBiggs
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p.1 #4 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

prcentauri1 wrote:
couple of quick questions...

1. do i need a permit to hike the subway from below?
2. do i need a permit to hike the narrows? if so, from what directions?
3. is there a difference hiking the narrows from above vs. below?

1 - Yes
2 - Not necessarily. You can hike it from the bottom to Big Springs sans permit. You do need a permit to do it from the top.
3 - Yes. From the bottom you go in and out the same terrain. From the top, you have to do a car shuttle. Top is the "real" way. Though if you just want to do photography, from the bottom is fine. I think it all looks completely different when you turn around and go back anyways. Plus, all the best stuff is pretty much near the bottom, minus a few things... Hiking against the current is harder too, but not a big deal.

Oct 14, 2008 at 04:25 PM

CarpeyBiggs
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p.1 #5 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

I've always gone in November. Should be getting close in the next few weeks. I'll be in Kolob on Saturday, and can give you a better idea when I get back.

Oct 14, 2008 at 04:33 PM

Jeffrey
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p.1 #6 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

First week of Nov. is usually the colorfest in the canyon.

Oct 14, 2008 at 05:04 PM

bjrhodes01
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p.1 #7 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

I will be there the first week of November and looking for color around the Subway.

Oct 14, 2008 at 05:19 PM

Tim_Raschko
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p.1 #8 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

Last year I was there on Nov 1 which was nice because the shuttle stops running on the 31st of October. The colors were at their peak.

Oct 14, 2008 at 06:54 PM

prcentauri1
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p.1 #9 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

i am essentially going for photography purposes... is it as hard as it seems to get a permit for the lower subway route? i am flying into vegas form nyc on the 27th and I will be in Zion the afternoon of the 28th, the whole of the 29th and 30th. anyone have any recommendations as to what i should do? i really wanted to see the classic shots inside the narrows and the subway.

Oct 14, 2008 at 08:24 PM

DonH
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p.1 #10 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

As soon as you get there go to the backcountry permits desk (near the visitor's center) and get a permit. I've never had a problem getting one for the next day.

Oct 14, 2008 at 08:30 PM

CarpeyBiggs
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p.1 #11 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

shouldn't be hard to get a permit in november. i imagine you'll have little problems.

Oct 14, 2008 at 08:30 PM

prcentauri1
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p.1 #12 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

thanks for the advice... sorry to have hijacked the thread. any recommendations for that first afternoon/early evening in zion assuming i will do the narrows the next day and the subway the day after? ...and Dan, your portfolio is amazing!

Oct 14, 2008 at 08:50 PM

pbryan
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p.1 #13 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

Looks like lots of permits available still... Reserve one online and you wont have to worry about not getting one...

https://zionpermits.nps.gov/backcountry.cfm?TripTypeID=3
Use drop down to pick "Left Fork North Creek (SUBWAY)"

BTW, I went the first week of November last year, lots of nice color in the canyon, but the subway area was past peak. However that made for lots of good colorful leaves that had fallen onto the rocks...

Some good info on both the Narrows and The Subway can be found here:
http://www.nps.gov/zion/planyourvisit/upload/Zion%20Backcountry%20Planner%202007.pdf

--Paul

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This image is copyrighted by the owner

Oct 14, 2008 at 08:58 PM

prcentauri1
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p.1 #14 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

that looks fantastic. approx what settings do you think u were using? anyone know the hike durations on the subway from below, the narrows in and out from below and narrows top down?

Oct 14, 2008 at 09:56 PM

bjrhodes01
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p.1 #15 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

I am guessing an ND filter or two, AV mode f/13.0, ISO 100. That's what I'd do at least. A polarizing filter (in place of the second ND filter) may help to remove the glare from the water seen in the above image. I'd also take a Wal-mart sack to collect colorful leaves on your way there (oh come on, you know you've done it!).

The Narrows is 17 miles from the top to the TOS parking lot. If you plan to photograph alot, you better be on the early shuttle and you better hustle. Otherwise you better pack a tent. The water will likely not be above your knees at any point (unless you take a wrong step).

The Subway is 8 miles from the top to lower parking lot (I'd pack a wetsuit in November cause you're going swimming). I would not attempt this route without a guide on your first trip. It's about 5 miles (without swimming or route finding) one way from the lower parking lot. Travel times (vary based on load, group size, and conditioning) each way are similar as you are going up river but down hill on the way there and the opposite on the way back.

Either hike is not easy and I would pack your equipment accordingly. A dry bag, one body with new batteries and empty memory card, lens(es) that will cover your super-wide to 50mm range, filters, lightwt tripod, and shutter release should suffice. You will not need a zoom on these hikes, unless you happen to see an elk at the top of the Subway hike (you will hear them).

Edited on Oct 14, 2008 at 10:18 PM · View previous versions

Oct 14, 2008 at 10:01 PM

prcentauri1
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p.1 #16 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

hmm i think i am going to do both of them from the bottom up and back, on sequential days (28th and 29th). on the 27th i will be in zion by mid day and i have no idea what to do with the afternoon/sunset other than head over to the local supply places and get a wetsuit or something like that and those 5-10 boots.

Oct 14, 2008 at 10:12 PM

CarpeyBiggs
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p.1 #17 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

prcentauri1 wrote:
that looks fantastic. approx what settings do you think u were using? anyone know the hike durations on the subway from below, the narrows in and out from below and narrows top down?

From the bottom to the subway, plan on 2-3 hours. Plan on wet feet and lots of rock hoppin'. From the Temple of Sinawava to Big Springs, plan on 4-5 hours up, 3-4 back. Plan on at least 12 hours from top to bottom of narrows.

Oct 14, 2008 at 10:48 PM

Ben Horne
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p.1 #18 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

I was there in the spring --- I just did a day hike from the bottom of the narrows up to get a feel for the place. I brought along a Lowepro Dryzone Rover bag --- it was perfect for a day hike. I was even swimming at one part, and the contents were nice and dry.

Oct 14, 2008 at 11:27 PM

RMC cichlids
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p.1 #19 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

I was thinking about heading out there the wknd of Nov 1st as well, first trip out there. What kind of camping is out that way? I do have a tent (not sure of temps) but I'd rather be sleeping in the back of my truck on a nice futon mattress.
Can I just pull into some parking lots and spend the night or proper campsites?
Kurt

Oct 15, 2008 at 01:24 AM

pbryan
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p.1 #20 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

Subway from the bottom is somewhere in the 9-10 mile range round trip. It's pretty strenuous, probably the hardest hike I've ever done. Lots of route finding and some very steep trail at times. We got to the trailhead right after sunrise, arrived at the subway at about 11:30 or so. I'd say about a 3.5 hour trip... We were passed by a few people on the way so I wouldn't say we were the fastest, but we weren't the slowest either... The best light for the subway itself is a bright sunny day around midday. You're deep in a slot so you'll never get direct light, but getting nice bright direct light on the wall of the canyon just outside the "tube" will give you the nice glowing "tube".

You might want to bring a flashlight if you're planning the stay a while at the subway. We started back at 1:30'ish to ensure we made it back to the car before it got dark. We ended up getting back about 30min before sunset so we could have stayed a bit longer.

I'd also recommend trekking poles if you have them... They were very handy in the steep sections and in stream crossings.

In the fall the water is usually low enough that you don't have to get wet. But it's very easy to miss a step and be in the water up to your ankles or so...

My shot above was 3.2s @ f/20 with a 5D & 17-40L at 17mm. I did have a polarizer but with the wide angle, the glare in the foreground is basically a straight on reflection of the sky above so the polarizer couldn't completely eliminate it. I don't think I needed a ND, but can't really remember.

Oct 15, 2008 at 03:46 AM

HaloGLC
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p.1 #21 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

I also am going to hike the Narrows on Oct 29th to the 30th (from the top down). Does anyone know if cold water gear is required to hike the Narrows at this time or will water be ankle deep ?

Oct 15, 2008 at 05:43 AM

CarpeyBiggs
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p.1 #22 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

HaloGLC wrote:
I also am going to hike the Narrows on Oct 29th to the 30th (from the top down). Does anyone know if cold water gear is required to hike the Narrows at this time or will water be ankle deep ?
Hard to say. There will certainly be spots that are waist deep, and I've never done it without at least a swim or two. But, just depends on flow rates.

Oct 15, 2008 at 02:51 PM

CarpeyBiggs
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p.1 #23 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

RMC cichlids wrote:
I was thinking about heading out there the wknd of Nov 1st as well, first trip out there. What kind of camping is out that way? I do have a tent (not sure of temps) but I'd rather be sleeping in the back of my truck on a nice futon mattress.
Can I just pull into some parking lots and spend the night or proper campsites?
Kurt

Yep. Mosquito Cove is where you want to go.

It is available south of Highway 9 between the towns of Virgin and Rockville at milepost 23.5. Often called Mosquito Cove, the place is a large and popular sandy area on the floodplain between the river and the highway. The locals are persistent - you've been warned. Please do your part to keep this area clean. No bathrooms, showers, or water is available here.

From Tom Jones' site, www.canyoneeringusa.com
http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/zion/

Oct 15, 2008 at 02:54 PM

gordon l
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p.1 #24 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

I did a write-up on the Subway a year ago. You might find it helpful http://www.jandephoto.com/Subway.html

My Zion site may also be helpful. Zion Photos I have several shots of the Subway there.

I was in the Narrows 6 days ago. The color has not changed yet in the main canyon. Higher elevations are changing now, though.

Gordon

Oct 15, 2008 at 05:01 PM

bjrhodes01
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p.1 #25 · Zion National Park (Subway) - Timing?

In November...if you are careful and good at route-finding, you will not be above your waist in the Narrows and you will not be above your ankles coming from the bottom to the Subway. If you aren't planning on being careful in the Narrows, practice your water log scrambling and breast stroke. I've seen it...it's funny stuff, as long as unprotected camera equipment isn't involved. If you aren't planning on being careful in the Subway, practice your water slide techniques. I haven't seen that, but I imagine it would also be funny.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Yes, there is a river under there, folks. Watch your step...or, like him, you might go right through. Kinda reminded me of the trash-compactor scene in Star Wars. I decided to back track 100 ft or so and scramble down the backside of the large, dry rock seen to the left.

Oct 15, 2008 at 06:41 PM


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