A wise photographer once told me something very valuable with regards to this subject:
"Ideally - eliminate the term formals from the lexicon altogether. They need be warm-hearted editorial family portraits - that convey intimacy and context. Formality is the enemy of closeness and love. "
Seems a bit ironic to talk about your age and maturity and then resort to "well I did it because he started it!". That's a bit childish.
As a "full time pro", I didn't find the OP's post condescending either. I don't generally enjoy the formals either. I LOVE portraits of the B&G, and the documentation of the day, but big group formals? no thanks. Although Red's posts make me want to improve.
This is the part that nobody likes, but always wants and ends up getting the most enlargements of. If we had to distill our service down to the bare bones, this part of the day would remain. That is why shooters from 70 years ago shot family portraits. These pictures rate second only to the B&G alone shots. Ya can't hang an album on a wall
That said, I still need help honing this. I wish I could find that thread from last year / 2 years ago with some joke ideas to get people to laugh / loosen up. What Evan said above is helpful- a mental paradigm adjustment that can easily translate into your attitude and demeanor on the big day.
VermilionPhoto wrote:
Doug et al - No condescension meant on my part. I apologize if that's how it came across.
I'm sure it's what I heard, not what you said, since others didn't hear it. I extend my apologies.
I'm also aware that my experience is in the South, which tends to prefer the more traditional, conservative approach. Folks in other areas of the country may be more open to experimentation. Formals point out the tension of trying to provide an innovative capture of the wedding day against the need, at least for some, to provide a record of the people involved. In many cases where the wedding dress is an heirloom care must be taken to present it well.
I promise to skip taking my grouch pills. Ryan was right, I should try to act my age.
Had the largest amount of formals this weekend. Count em 63 different group shots. 63 dude!!!! Family after family, OMG. I'll let you guess the nationality.
billkrekephoto wrote:
What tips do you have for getting people at different heights in the image when you have only one step or no step at all.
Bill,
Pretty standard practice (at least over here IME) is to put the tallest people at the back, and trying to arrange various rows so that each head in the row in front is BETWEEN the shoulders of the 2 people behind, takes a while to set up each shot, you can't just put people in willy-nilly and get all the formals done in 5 minutes, but it does ensure that everyone's face is visible.
dmacmillan wrote:
I'm so sorry you're bored. I didn't even realize the purpose of weddings was to entertain the photographer.
I think formals are boring to photographers who don't have the training to do them well. They usually don't even know what to look for to separate the passable formal from the well done one. Posing large groups well takes patience and skill. Posing the bride correctly is fraught with technicalities - how should her feet be positioned even though you can't see them? Is the veil adjusted correctly? If there are sleeves, do they end in the right place? According to the style of dress, is the train displayed properly? The old pros knew all this, most dabblers don't have a clue. You can tell in an instant by looking at the results.
IMHO times have changed. Most couples I know (and most of their family and guests) - in the UK this is - hate posing for formals and have only one priority - get it over with. One of our weddings the MOB is apparently still raving on to people about how marvellous it was that we were so quick at taking them.
Everyone wants those pics....but then everyone wants a drink and the chance to talk to people. Within the typical structure of a British wedding the longer the formals go on, the more of the drinks reception that people are missing out on, and this makes more difference to them that whether someone's collar isn't quite straight.
I respect the skills involved in formal posing, and would like to know more in case I ever got a client that cared deeply for such things - so far all of ours love us for our reportage style work so it hasn't been an issue
Lord Fluff wrote:
Like I say, maybe this is true for you guys, not for us.
I've found that the formals are most important over here only to one person. The mother of the bride. What I try to do these days is give people a limit of say 10 formals. Explain to them the amount of time it takes to take each picture, that they're missing out on the drinks and they soon realize they don't need a picture of the Brown family, Brown family with uncle Joe AND the Brown family with uncle Joe and aunt Mildread.
While formals are very much 'boring' compared to a creative session with the B&G, I find formals a very relaxing and stress free part of the day - even if it is 2 shots or 63.
I actually suggest to brides who tell me they want no formals to reconsider. Will there be family who have traveled to attend? Grandparents they wish to honor and remember? These shots often become treasured heirlooms.
On the other hand, like Alex, I encourage them to keep the list simple. I doubt they need several different variations on the same people, and then it's eating up the time for fun or other photographs.
Sam Hassas wrote:
Had the largest amount of formals this weekend. Count em 63 different group shots. 63 dude!!!! Family after family, OMG. I'll let you guess the nationality.
~Sam
Sam,
I've read somewhere here that photog actually make money from prints from the formals. Is that true for you?
Formals thrill me. Nothing is more thrilling than extra money soon to come my way. If you learn to pose, light, and get excited ('cause it's contagious, and they'll get excited), then you'll be smiling all the way to the bank. Imagine this: You've already gotten paid to take photos. Now, the formals come, and you're doing an awesome job of posing and lighting the groups... and you just know, you're going to get paid even more for photos you've already been paid for.
That's thrilling, dude!
I'd like to thank all of you with the positive attitudes, I've dreaded formals for too long, (probably because I'm not that good at them). You've given me a new outlook. I won't speak negatively about them to clients anymore, work on my skills, ask them to keep thier list simple, limit "uncle Bobs" involvement, make sure there is champagne or whatever, and try to keep the excitement level up.
