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digitalbug30d
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p.1 #1 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

yeah I know wrong forum but this is where most hang out...and I bored and have another
potential flaming session coming up with the next Question and comments...so here it goes

Has photoshop ruined photography as we used to know it? not talking about IQ aspects but asthstetic aspects of a Image,when you shoot with film the parimeters you have are the camera,lens, film itself,the paper..and what can be achieved in the darkroom of which have very limited experiance so cant comment more on that...now with a DSLR and a really good computer you can do many things to an image to the point of changing its true identity
its original intent..bordering on Psuedo photography...sure you capture the basic Image but alter it beyond a realism...of which takes away the Magic of a photograph when you have doubts of its pedigree...

Oct 04, 2008 at 03:03 AM

Ariel Bravy
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p.1 #2 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

It opens up many more possibilities. It creates the possibility to enhance photography or evolve it into something else entirely.

It creates more options, but it doesn't ruin anything.

Oct 04, 2008 at 03:09 AM

fredv
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p.1 #3 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

I thought the Armory Show ruined Art? things change Dude

Oct 04, 2008 at 03:13 AM

prh5551
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p.1 #4 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

its dslr art. no different than a painting. its an interpretation, one persons view of what is seen. also with PS you can't believe what you are seeing.

prh

Oct 04, 2008 at 03:14 AM

bluetsunami
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p.1 #5 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Digital Art. One shouldn't dismiss it. The only problem is when extremely modified photographs are pushed as straight up photography, I believe there should be a distinction (I have to admit though, I don't know exactly where the line is).

To say that its ruining the "Art" that is photography is just the wrong mindset when it should be considered its own art form.

Oct 04, 2008 at 03:16 AM

nathanlake
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p.1 #6 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Yes, it "ruined photography as we knew it". Just like the jet engine ruined airplanes as we knew them. Just like computers ruined bookkeeping as we knew it. Just like Goretex ruined raincoats as we knew them.

I like being ruined. All those other things are still available, and even have their uses, but they are old technology.

Oct 04, 2008 at 03:44 AM

dirb9
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p.1 #7 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Most anything you can do in PS you can do in the darkroom. Most PS terms come from traditional techniques. PS made it easier and more accessible. Image manipulation was first clearly shown about 10 years after the invention of photography (although it inevitably occurred for years before that), and in fact, double exposures to show 'ghosts' were used quite commonly to try and scam people out of extra money by purportedly showing dead relatives by the 1860s. No one prints in the darkroom without knowing how to and frequently adjusting exposure, contrast, and lightening and darkening specific areas (dodging and burning), and adjusting overall color hues (color darkroom only). Toners, different developers, and different papers (ex; warmtone papers) can have strong effects on the print as well.

Oct 04, 2008 at 04:23 AM

SKYWESTR
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p.1 #8 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Yup agree with just about everyone above.

Sure you can completely ruin an image in PS by processing too much, but you can also get a real feel for what people might have done in a darkroom w/o the chemicals and mess (not to mention much quicker).

yes it hurts a bit when people like a crappy photo because it was processed with purchased application instead of being the original shot by the photographer...but a good photographer can transcend past that.

Carl.

Oct 04, 2008 at 04:39 AM

fredv
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p.1 #9 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

this is very true...

dirb9 wrote:
Most anything you can do in PS you can do in the darkroom. Most PS terms come from traditional techniques. PS made it easier and more accessible. Image manipulation was first clearly shown about 10 years after the invention of photography (although it inevitably occurred for years before that), and in fact, double exposures to show 'ghosts' were used quite commonly to try and scam people out of extra money by purportedly showing dead relatives by the 1860s. No one prints in the darkroom without knowing how to and frequently adjusting exposure, contrast, and lightening and darkening specific areas (dodging and burning), and adjusting overall color hues (color darkroom only). Toners, different developers, and different papers (ex; warmtone papers) can have strong effects on the print as well.

Personally I learned the old way, but just could not take all the chemicals. I did not take a photo from 1979 until 2005. Also to cheap to buy a DSLR until the price came down... you gota love a 300D :-)

Oct 04, 2008 at 04:45 AM

digitalbug30d
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p.1 #10 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

I guess a meaning here is missed...what of the original intent of the photograph/er
sure you can take a picture of a green grass and blue sky but the same photo is fake if you change it to blue grass and green sky...or is there a OCD need to justify technology to a point of absurdness?
1.Models PP ok as long its not altering just enhancing theres a difference fine line

2.What you expect to be real Photojournalist picture altered yes it happens how would you know what was real? dangerous slippery slope.

3.keeping it real should be not just a buzz word said by chris rock,but thought about the next time you want to alter reality...

correct me if I am wrong but National Geographic photographers have to sign a contract stating no Images are to be altered via PS ect for publication..now if those Photographers can get the classic results with a DSLR in this fashion why cant everyone?

Edited on Oct 04, 2008 at 04:56 AM · View previous versions

Oct 04, 2008 at 04:50 AM

bluetsunami
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p.1 #11 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

If anything is added or cloned out then that's definitely enhancing the photo beyond what was originally intended.

On the flipside, lots of the Post Processing is just the photographer trying to get the exposure the scene correctly and bring back details that were lost.

Then there's Black and White with tonal effects. Or how about PP a Portrait that smooths out a persons skin? There's a lot of areas where people can complain.

Oct 04, 2008 at 04:54 AM

BenV
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p.1 #12 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

the things I have seen done in photoshop are almost more amazing than any photographs I've ever seen. I believe it is 3dart.com that has a yearly contest for photoshop and the realism they can create out of nothing is amazing. Its just like painting, just with a computer. It still takes an extreme amount of skill and talent, just different skill and talent.

Oct 04, 2008 at 04:56 AM

digitalbug30d
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p.1 #13 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

BenV wrote:
the things I have seen done in photoshop are almost more amazing than any photographs I've ever seen. I believe it is 3dart.com that has a yearly contest for photoshop and the realism they can create out of nothing is amazing. Its just like painting, just with a computer. It still takes an extreme amount of skill and talent, just different skill and talent.

not dissing the talent or skill but the Integrity of Photography losing out little by little

Oct 04, 2008 at 04:59 AM

genoph
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p.1 #14 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

I think Photoshop is like any art. It can distort reality in a way that may not be desirable.

Kinda like writing. Or paintings. You really think all the kings and queens looked that good?

Photoshop is great. It's new. It makes my job easier. And I really like cloning myself out of a mirror, I don't see anything wrong with that. I've also seen how photoshop can be used to change people. really change.

Youtube it.

Oct 04, 2008 at 05:09 AM

mpmendenhall
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p.1 #15 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

These "Darkroom" things are ruining photography today!

Back in the good old days, we took photos straight from the light of reality onto our emulsion-coated metal plates. But these days, folks are using "film" to make "negatives" that have the colors all backwards. Then, they're messing with the image just howsoever they like in making prints! With all that "dodging" and "burning," photographers can lie about lighting and make imaginary images of whatever they want. Why, they can even cut out parts of one image and paste them into another! Surely you can see how this whole "film" approach is making the Integrity of Photography lose out little by little.

Oct 04, 2008 at 05:34 AM

fredv
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p.1 #16 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Is my work junk.... it very well my be !!!!
but I did the drawing took the photo and brought them together... how knows
it's called "Portrait of older women"

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Oct 04, 2008 at 05:46 AM

corndog
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p.1 #17 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

digitalbug30d wrote:Has photoshop changed photography as we used to know it?

yup

Ansel changed it too, he used "photoshop" before the pc was anything worth talking about.

Oct 04, 2008 at 05:47 AM

rhorta
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p.1 #18 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

To each his own, a purist might simply not accept a photograph as art once it has been altered.

Ruy

Oct 04, 2008 at 06:07 AM

corndog
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p.1 #19 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Photography was denounced by painters as an "art" when first introduced. Swap "purist" for "person resistant to change", and I'm right there with ya.

Oct 04, 2008 at 06:10 AM

Marcus Watts
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p.1 #20 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Photoshop has seen the creation of a lot of bad images. over processed works that will look dreadful over time.

For the most part however it has taken photography as an art form to a new level not achievable with film.

I remeber watching 50 first dates where drew barrymore would only remember the current day. every new day she would wake up only remembering her life up to the time of an accident a year earlier.

Then Adam Sandler tells the doctor he thinks she is remembering things. The doctor tell him that is not the case, it is simply what we all want to believe.

Likewise there are those who think that film was and is a higher art form. It's what some desperately want to believe but is in fact pure fantasy.

If you look at the results of professional competitions from 20 years ago to today. Yes some over worked images still get through but for the most part we are seeing a consistency and level of image making not hitherto known.

Oct 04, 2008 at 07:41 AM

Aragosh
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p.1 #21 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

I think the OP made his/her distinction of what is acceptable or not, in the second line of the question...

I teach photography and 'digital darkroom', and I frequently find myself talking to students about chemical processing and enlargement techniques when discussing PS filters and 'toning'. I have to agree that they are much more the same than different.

Concerning whether we/you/others are changing reality as an intent, I do not know. But what is the difference between photographing someone through a stocking to introduce soft-focus, using a soft-focus lens (like the EF 135mm SF), or applying a 'glamor blur' filter in PS?

Oct 04, 2008 at 07:44 AM

rhorta
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p.1 #22 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Marcus Watts wrote:
Likewise there are those who think that film was and is a higher art form. It's what some desperately want to believe but is in fact pure fantasy.

If you look at the results of professional competitions from 20 years ago to today. Yes some over worked images still get through but for the most part we are seeing a consistency and level of image making not hitherto known.

Isn't that more about technology and technique and to some extend popular culture?

Popular art changes together with popular culture, but there seems to be some forms that somehow become classic art. There are photographic images that somehow transcend their era and become timeless. But still the "art" of photography is perhaps too young to make clear distinctions.

Who's to say what's popular in 50 years as technology only improves. Perhaps those very shallow dof images with "beautiful bokeh" will be be laughed at. Perhaps the highest art will be pinhole lens Polaroids, as a counter to technology?!

Both sides show a narrow pov, one based on conservatism the other the latest technology.

I dimply don't know, but some gut instinct in me prefers (any) tangible forms of art over digital.

A handcrafted stone or steel sculpture over a CAD design and product. The use of "film" and the the materials and techniques of the darkroom over digital and PS. If that makes me one of those with a difficulty to cope with change, so be it (which at my age would be pretty ironic).

Tools change, but that (IMHO) does influence the aura of that being produced, quality at a cost.

Ruy

Oct 04, 2008 at 08:01 AM

Marcus Watts
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p.1 #23 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

Art is about what you can do with the tools and skills. The more tools and skills an artist possesses the more options the artist has and therefore the greater art can be produced.

The more limited the tools and skills the less options so you are forced to work within a certain level and not reach the heights you may have with the extra skill/tool set.

Sometimes those limited thing were all that was needed so the better art is in that case produced but we are talking about consistency here. The ability to make choices is greater than ever before for artist. Better to choose a pin hole camera from a range of options than because you had no option.

So in fact my thought are not narrow. just the opposite. Those who think film is itself the higher art form are narrow due the the above mentioned reasons.

Oct 04, 2008 at 08:10 AM

trumpet_guy
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p.1 #24 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

In a sense, it changed photography in a negative way IMO, but it's still just a tool
that can be used well or poorly.

What I usually object to with photoshop is the use it is put to in fashion
photography and other kinds of work where people are photoshopped to
look more like Barbie and Ken than like real people. But that is less the fault
of Adobe than it is of the users of their program.

But of course, that's just my opinion. I happen to like seeing real texture and
some skin flaws in pics of people, because it makes me think I'm actually seeing
an accurate representation of how they appear, but of course this is a continuum.
There is always some degree of artistic choice in how to photograph and depict the
subject, and no photo is ever completely "real" in an objective sense.

On a side note, I admit to not enjoying post processing very much at all, but that's
my own hang-up.

Oct 04, 2008 at 08:25 AM

Dan1
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p.1 #25 · is Photoshop ruinning an art?

It's a mistake to think that a photograph is ever an accurate representation of reality; you are seeing only a single moment of many in space and time that the photographer has chosen. Therefore, a photograph is completely divorced from its original context in the eyes of the viewer (unless, perhaps, you were there when the photograph was taken). Photography is no different from painting or any other art form in that its purpose is to convey semblances of subjective truth.

Oct 04, 2008 at 08:32 AM


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