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Archive 2008 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?
  
 
josh paris
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p.1 #1 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


I am more of a landscape\people shooter than sports(i have done extensive motorsports however without much issue)....however my son's soccer games are getting rather intense and my 30d (but its very good camera..just not for this work)just seems it can't keep up(or perhaps its me!) but my keepers are too few and largely due to speed of focus.....

So before I go out and pick up a new or used 1d body and I wanted to hear suggestions- the least expensive option is ideal!!.....in addition- is the new 50d any faster in terms of focusing? I have heard and read amazing reports on the Nikon d300 too....so I'm open to all(but Canon is the first choice due to the number of lens I own!) So need to be quick- high IQ-

1d mark II?
1d mark III?
50d
d300
others?
the least expensive option is ideal!

Sep 29, 2008 at 01:10 PM
Zara
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p.1 #2 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


What lens(es) are you shooting with? AF speed is fairly lens dependent as well...

Sep 29, 2008 at 01:36 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #3 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


Yeah, fast glass is as important as the body...if not more so. Whatcha shootin'

Sep 29, 2008 at 01:42 PM
luant16
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p.1 #4 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


are u using AI Servo or One Shot mode? if your technique wrong, eventhough u're using 1D Mark III, its not gonna help you, I remembered back when i used Original Rebel (Hacked) + 70-200 2.8 IS, i can still track jumping dolphin (the only complain was the burst just too few)

Sep 30, 2008 at 05:35 AM
chopper dave
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p.1 #5 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


This is kind of where I am now also. I have a 30D and am using just a 70-200 2.8 (nonIS) most of the time. I know the 40D and probably the 50D have upgraded focus systems from the 30D, but has it approached how good the ol' 1D Mkii is? All I see for the 50D is "high iso this" and "high iso that". I wanna seen someone shoot pics of a motorcycle coming at them at 100mph and see how well it keeps up. haha.

There is always the "oh would I be better off with a 400 5.6"? thing too.

Sorry, I was just trying to say "hey I am in the same boat as you", not take this over. haha.

Sep 30, 2008 at 08:32 PM
peterbosox
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p.1 #6 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


I am also interested in your opinions please. I also am using a 30D w/ 70-200 2.8 and would like to know if 50D focusing is much better then 30D for fast moving objects (aka: Dog Sports, agility, etc).

Sep 30, 2008 at 08:50 PM
josh paris
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p.1 #7 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


I am using all fast lenses- 70-200 2.8 IS is the primary one I use for this. I have tried ever style from 'One shot', to AL Servo (I admit it could be technique- but I think I know how to use it correctly and in fact I do get some great shots....Just not enough of them and I seem to just miss them my a millisecond out of focus- does that make sense?
So what would you suggest I jump into??
thx

Oct 01, 2008 at 02:48 AM
RobertLynn
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p.1 #8 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


I cover youth soccer with a 30D and 40D, and the 70-200 2.8IS...

Even the pro cameras are going to have AI servo misses, just less of them.

I'm always for the suggestion of NOT spending money, over spending money. Also, Soccer is difficult to cover, and is a challenge for any camera.

Oct 01, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Kelly Phillips
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p.1 #9 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


Use servo, center focus point, and learn how to use the * button to focus. That will speed things up alot. I have the 40D, but I have a friend who shoots sports with the 30D. He doesn't miss much.

Oct 01, 2008 at 12:28 PM
eosfun
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p.1 #10 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


You say the least expensive option is ideal? No doubt for what you mentioned: the 1DMkII! Since you believe the 30D is not fast enough you seem to have no other options.The xxD series are just substantially slower. The 1DmkII series can be had a very low prices nowadays. Of course if the budget is enough for the successor 1DmkIII you won't regret it. It's just one step further in all respects, but as you said you want the least expensive option, the 1DII or 1DIIn isn't a slouch at all. Look for a mint body with low actuations from a careful hobbyist. Not the one from a pro that abused his gear during 100.000+ shots. Why do you think this was the bread and butter camera for thousands of professionals shooting weddings, portraits, sports, events etc. This really still is a great allround camera with lots of EOSfun!

Oct 01, 2008 at 12:48 PM
josh paris
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p.1 #11 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


Kelly Phillips wrote:
Use servo, center focus point, and learn how to use the * button to focus. That will speed things up alot. I have the 40D, but I have a friend who shoots sports with the 30D. He doesn't miss much.


I have found I miss to much with Servo, I use center point(always anyway) and just keep my finger fired up......I get more keeper this way- this is my second season of doing this, I'm disappointed to hear this is just as good as your gonna get.

Oct 01, 2008 at 12:52 PM
 



Kelly Phillips
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p.1 #12 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


You say that you are just starting out on soccer. Sports like this are pretty hard to shoot. The action is fast so it takes some practice. I don't see any way in the world why you would be getting more keepers using "one shot" over "servo" with action. I am also using a 70-200 and have very few problems other than me just not being quick enough sometimes. Make sure you have your "IS" turned off when shooting sports. Also if your shooting at night, you will miss more shots because of the autofocus. The * button focus made the most difference in the number of keepers that I get. I would really encourage you to practice more before you give up on your 30D, unless you have the money to spend.

Oct 01, 2008 at 01:41 PM
andrewd01
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p.1 #13 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


mkIIn is awesome bang for buck

Oct 01, 2008 at 03:58 PM
josh paris
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p.1 #14 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


Kelly Phillips wrote:
You say that you are just starting out on soccer. Sports like this are pretty hard to shoot. The action is fast so it takes some practice. I don't see any way in the world why you would be getting more keepers using "one shot" over "servo" with action. I am also using a 70-200 and have very few problems other than me just not being quick enough sometimes. Make sure you have your "IS" turned off when shooting sports. Also if your shooting at night, you will miss more shots because of the autofocus. The * button focus made the most difference in the number of keepers that I get. I would really encourage you to practice more before you give up on your 30D, unless you have the money to spend.


Thank you- I will try shooting with the IS OFF...never done that before, but it makes sense and my shutter speed in certainly high enough.
Servo has just been too slow to capture the action...... so what is the rate of keeper I should expect??
I'll shoot between 75-150 shots at a game and get maybe 7-20 shots that are good(being both content and clarity of the the shot)... but I get another 10-20 shots where I looking at them and going.."wow if only a millisecond of focus that would have be amazing"...sometimes with just fuzzy edges other just plain blurry>

Oct 02, 2008 at 03:47 AM
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p.1 #15 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


josh paris wrote:
Kelly Phillips wrote:
You say that you are just starting out on soccer. Sports like this are pretty hard to shoot. The action is fast so it takes some practice. I don't see any way in the world why you would be getting more keepers using "one shot" over "servo" with action. I am also using a 70-200 and have very few problems other than me just not being quick enough sometimes. Make sure you have your "IS" turned off when shooting sports. Also if your shooting at night, you will miss more shots because of the autofocus. The * button focus made the most difference in the number of keepers that I get. I would really encourage you to practice more before you give up on your 30D, unless you have the money to spend.


Thank you- I will try shooting with the IS OFF...never done that before, but it makes sense and my shutter speed in certainly high enough.
Servo has just been too slow to capture the action...... so what is the rate of keeper I should expect??
I'll shoot between 75-150 shots at a game and get maybe 7-20 shots that are good(being both content and clarity of the the shot)... but I get another 10-20 shots where I looking at them and going.."wow if only a millisecond of focus that would have be amazing"...sometimes with just fuzzy edges other just plain blurry>


strange that single focus works better than AI servo for you, very, very few people shoot soccer that way....

keep IS off, it messes with tracking soccer and sometimes even seems to slow AI Servo focus.

you need to take more pics per game, don't be afraid to take at least 2-3x more.

don't expect every other shot to be a keeper

40d (50d) would focus more quickly.
otoh it is more sensitive to jumping to the background so you need to be even MORE careful with yor tracking (it does recover faster from mistakes though)

It does have more fps and speedier feeling shutter/mirror and a buffer large enough to nicely handle shooting RAW (or RAW+JPG).

At its best the 40D defintely does better (but at its worst it can be noticeably worse than the 20D) and overall it's maybe avged out to roughly the same.

for whatever reason, I have found the 40d to be very touchy depending upon lighting conditions, for whatever reason brilliant 1pm sun and bright uniforms gives it TERRIBLE fits, its performs horribly at times. Yet shoot soccer at 5-7PM and it sometimes does almost as well as a 1dmkii.

it seems to do wildly differently depending upon the light, where the 20d and 1dmkii (although troubled at times by certain conditions) seems to be thrown off kilter by fewer types of lighting and to less varying degrees.

for whatever reason the more intense the heat and sun the more my 40D seems to backfocus, same for the more powerful the backlighting, maybe if they had given it MF adjustment I could do a little better by picking different amounts for different lighting. Kind of ridiculous but what can I say, this is what it appears to be doing. Anyway, it doesn't allow MF adjustment so it has been anywhere from extreme hit to extreme miss.

Out of all the Canon bodies out there now, the least complaints for sports appear to be heard from the 1DMkIIn and second least from 1DMkII users. Of course no camera is perfect and you technique can help or hinder it. For something like volleyball (low-light, indoor, fast snap focus) the 1DMkIII appears to have the least complaints at this point. At least these are my impressions, perhaps they are not valid.

anyway, for what that is worth and maybe these experiences are not universal....


Oct 02, 2008 at 04:07 AM
Jammy Straub
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p.1 #16 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


eosfun wrote:
You say the least expensive option is ideal? No doubt for what you mentioned: the 1DMkII! This really still is a great allround camera with lots of EOSfun!


+1 The 1D II sounds fabulous for your needs. Besides that imagine all the people on the sidelines who will have camera envy.

Oct 02, 2008 at 04:31 AM
Alistair Watson
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p.1 #17 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


If your 30D is not focussing fast enough, if I were you, I would make the jump either to the 1D2N or the 1D3. I imagine the 50D would be an improvement over the 30D but how much of an improvement, well that remains to be seen. If you are shooting in daylight I would say go with the 1D2N, and in my opinion, the N model is worth the extra over the 1D2 but opinions do vary on whether it is worth the increase. If you are shooting in low light, say under floodlights then you will find the 1D3 yields far better results in really low light. As many have mentioned, the AF ability is as much to do with the lens as well so fast glass is critical.


Oct 02, 2008 at 06:46 AM
Daan B
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p.1 #18 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


skibum5 wrote:
40d (50d) would focus more quickly.
otoh it is more sensitive to jumping to the background so you need to be even MORE careful with yor tracking (it does recover faster from mistakes though)

for whatever reason, I have found the 40d to be very touchy depending upon lighting conditions, for whatever reason brilliant 1pm sun and bright uniforms gives it TERRIBLE fits, its performs horribly at times. Yet shoot soccer at 5-7PM and it sometimes does almost as well as a 1dmkii.

it seems to do wildly differently depending upon the light, where the 20d and 1dmkii (although troubled at times by certain conditions) seems to be thrown off kilter by fewer types of lighting and to less varying degrees.

for whatever reason the more intense the heat and sun the more my 40D seems to backfocus, same for the more powerful the backlighting, maybe if they had given it MF adjustment I could do a little better by picking different amounts for different lighting. Kind of ridiculous but what can I say, this is what it appears to be doing. Anyway, it doesn't allow MF adjustment so it has been anywhere from extreme hit to extreme miss.


Your 40D's AF experience in bright light sounds familiar... 1D3

Is this a widespread phenomenon or are only certain 40D's affected by this (like with the 1D3)?


Oct 02, 2008 at 06:54 AM
josh paris
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p.1 #19 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


Ok....I tried all the suggestions, but I still wasn't happy with the results....so I decided to pick up a 1d Mark N II.....but then along came a great copy of of mark III! So I should have it this week- can't wait to shoot it!

Oct 06, 2008 at 12:24 AM
nikt
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p.1 #20 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


"Least expensive option" ....

Good buy, I'm sure you'll love it.

Oct 06, 2008 at 08:15 AM
kapytalyst
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p.1 #21 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


You may want to consider the original 1ds. It is an formidable camera which renders exceptionally fine details and amazing colors. More importantly, the AF is lightning quick and in my opinion locks on faster than even my 1dM2. I have some posts over in the Sports Forum as I am learning to cover the sport. I am a novice soccer shooter but have shot basketball and other field sports for years.

Being full frame, the 1ds pulls out details in the players faces and expressions, etc. that my 40d just never seems to do. The images are stunningly sharp and clear.

People on this forum will tell you the 1ds "can't do sports." They're correct in that you can't machine gun coverage, but if you exercise the right amount of anticipation and learn the sport, the 1ds can be an awesome tool. I am also finding that noise is nowhere near the issue that I thought it would be.

I would not have spent $8000 on the 1ds for covering sports, but at today's prices - less than $1,500 - it is flat out an amazing deal. As a "landscape/people shooter" you will realize its "other" virtues as well.

Good luck!






  Canon EOS-1DS    135 mm    f/5.6    1/800 sec    125 ISO    0.0 EV  



Oct 06, 2008 at 10:12 AM
josh paris
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p.1 #22 · Fast Focus- Pro body, 50d, Nikon d300?


Quick report- I can't believe the diffence with the 1dmk3/70-200, my keeper percentage has shot skyward about 40%- the speed and quickness, with the incredible detail and High IQ are so pleasing to see- I'm sure as I learn more how to use the 1d3 the better it will get!....
thanks for all the input-even though I didn't pick the least expense dollars wise, I think I got the most for my dollar... I will say my 30d feels like kids play now...I'm spoiled forever, no turning back.

Oct 18, 2008 at 09:47 PM




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