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Archive 2008 · Some better A900 samples

  
 
Mel Gross
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p.11 #1 · Some better A900 samples


Lotusm50 wrote:
Yes, I am aware of this (and stated as much in an earlier post somewhere). The real question is how much better. I suspect it is modest and incremental rather than earth-shattering. I guess we have to wait a couple weeks before we get better information. The 5D MkII is apparently due Oct. 18th



Yup, we will have to wait for hard numbers.



Oct 08, 2008 at 11:15 PM
moire
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p.11 #2 · Some better A900 samples


Tariq Gibran wrote:
One thing Sony really should have corrected on the A900 is the Minolta proprietary hot shoe. For anyone(like commercial and studio photographers) who use wireless slave triggers, this means we will have to buy(and keep track of!) a silly adapter.



That shoe is really so much better then the old ones from the what 60ies? that everyone else uses. They should change to the minolta shoe.



Oct 09, 2008 at 03:19 AM
moire
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p.11 #3 · Some better A900 samples


DIWALabs has the A900 results up!


http://www.diwa-labs.com/wip4/compare_camera.epl?product=7109


A900 vs D700 http://www.diwa-labs.com/wip4/compare_camera3.epl?product=7109&product2=7059



Oct 09, 2008 at 03:29 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.11 #4 · Some better A900 samples


moire wrote:
That shoe is really so much better then the old ones from the what 60ies? that everyone else uses. They should change to the minolta shoe.


It's a nuisance for pros being a non standard design. "Where did I put that stupid adapter?" "Crap, I left it in the studio!" blah blah blah. KISS is the mantra we live by - "Keep It Simple Stupid"

Edited on Oct 09, 2008 at 06:56 AM · View previous versions



Oct 09, 2008 at 06:31 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.11 #5 · Some better A900 samples


moire wrote:
DIWALabs has the A900 results up!

http://www.diwa-labs.com/wip4/compare_camera.epl?product=7109

A900 vs D700 http://www.diwa-labs.com/wip4/compare_camera3.epl?product=7109&product2=7059


Too bad they did not use comparable lenses for their D700 comparison. Otherwise, these cameras are really not aimed at the same buyer nor direct competitors.



Oct 09, 2008 at 06:51 AM
moire
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p.11 #6 · Some better A900 samples


There are other aspects then resolution that can be compared! such as:

color
tonal range
dynamic range
etc



Oct 09, 2008 at 06:59 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.11 #7 · Some better A900 samples


moire wrote:
There are other aspects then resolution that can be compared! such as:

color
tonal range
dynamic range
etc


...and it appears most of those aspects look better on the D700.



Oct 09, 2008 at 07:01 AM
Lotusm50
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p.11 #8 · Some better A900 samples


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Too bad they did not use comparable lenses for their D700 comparison. Otherwise, these cameras are really not aimed at the same buyer nor direct competitors.



Yes, I saw that. I wondered why they used that lens on the Nikon. It really isn't comparable. Maybe that's all they had when they did the D700 test. The Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED would have been the appropriate, and comparable, choice.




Oct 09, 2008 at 08:55 AM
httivals
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p.11 #9 · Some better A900 samples


If you use their comparison of the A900 and the Canon 1Ds Mark III, what's especially revealing is the much migher MTF scores for the 1ds Mark III, even though they used the Zeiss 24-70mm lens on the A900 and the 16-35 Mark II on the 1DsIII. The lens selection favored Sony, but not the results.

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Too bad they did not use comparable lenses for their D700 comparison. Otherwise, these cameras are really not aimed at the same buyer nor direct competitors.




Oct 09, 2008 at 09:25 AM
moire
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p.11 #10 · Some better A900 samples


Lotusm50 wrote:
Yes, I saw that. I wondered why they used that lens on the Nikon. It really isn't comparable. Maybe that's all they had when they did the D700 test. The Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED would have been the appropriate, and comparable, choice.




Probably its what they had.



Oct 09, 2008 at 10:27 AM
moire
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p.11 #11 · Some better A900 samples


httivals wrote:
If you use their comparison of the A900 and the Canon 1Ds Mark III, what's especially revealing is the much migher MTF scores for the 1ds Mark III, even though they used the Zeiss 24-70mm lens on the A900 and the 16-35 Mark II on the 1DsIII. The lens selection favored Sony, but not the results.




Thats odd, dpr measured a900 to 3700 compared to 3300 for 1dsIII



Oct 09, 2008 at 10:28 AM
douglasf13
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p.11 #12 · Some better A900 samples


DIWA uses JPEGS, which is probably why the detail is lower than in the dpreview. I believe they use the standard settings, and that would mean high NR on, DRO on, and fine jpeg, not extra fine.


Oct 09, 2008 at 11:52 AM
Mel Gross
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p.11 #13 · Some better A900 samples


This looks like what I've been saying here all along.

If Sony had come out with this camera a year ago, when we first began to hear rumors about this sensor, it would have been a *great* camera. Because, the top cameras of a year ago look to be what Sony was trying to beat, or equal.

But, it didn't come out a year ago, it's come out now. And now, either those cameras have been discontinued in favor of better ones, or are about to be discontinued in favor of better ones.

In light of that fact, the a900 is no longer a *great* cameras, it's merely a *good* camera.

One has to live with that fact.

If Canon and Nikon both come out with new top line models early next year, as it's supposed they will do, does anyone have real doubts the IQ won't also be improved?

Where does this leave the a900?

Sony is trying to position this as their "pro" camera, but compared to the so called "real" pro cameras from Canon and Nikon, it's not competitive.

Many pros who do buy Canon and Nikons pro models will buy the next down as well, so that area is off limits to Sony.

None of those pros who buy a less expensive, lighter, smaller body for their second, or third body, will buy the Sony, AND new lenses as well.

And Sony doesn't have the cameras to compete at the high end to get the pros to buy this as that second, or third body.

People who own Canon and Nikon, for the most part, are not going to buy into this. A few will, to be sure, but not many.

The more tests that people here have been demanding we need to see before dismissing this as being one of the "best", are now coming out. They are backing up most of the early field reports on the camera, which is to say that this is good, but not up to the new models.

So, again, where can Sony position this? They might have to drop the actual MSRP. The Canon 5D mkII lists for $2,700, and will be selling for less in a few months, once initial heavy demand is satisfied, possibly around $2,500. The Nikon D700 lists for $3,000, but is already selling for $2,700, and will likely come down from that.

How much, then, is the Sony worth? It lists now for $3,000, but what will the initial street price be?



Oct 09, 2008 at 12:48 PM
phelme
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p.11 #14 · Some better A900 samples


Tariq Gibran wrote:
It's a nuisance for pros being a non standard design. "Where did I put that stupid adapter?" "Crap, I left it in the studio!" blah blah blah. KISS is the mantra we live by - "Keep It Simple Stupid"


Do a search for Herbert Keppler's take on the Minolta shoe. It was designed in the late 1980's (with Herbert's help apparently) as an improvement to the "industry standard" which is 75 years old! If anything, other camera makes should adopt the Minolta method. You can pick up a couple adapters on eBay for less than $10. Like there isn't a lot of kit to keep track of for photography already? Chill.

I swear some of you must have had Trinitron TV's fall on your heads as kids the Sony dislike is so strong.

from the Alpha forums on xitek I found another set of A900 pics: http://wolfx700.bababian.com/. not sure if this has been posted already or not.




Oct 09, 2008 at 01:03 PM
Mel Gross
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p.11 #15 · Some better A900 samples


phelme wrote:
Do a search for Herbert Keppler's take on the Minolta shoe. It was designed in the late 1980's (with Herbert's help apparently) as an improvement to the "industry standard" which is 75 years old! If anything, other camera makes should adopt the Minolta method. You can pick up a couple adapters on eBay for less than $10. Like there isn't already a lot of kit to keep track of for photography already? Chill.

I swear some of you must have had Trinitron TV's fall on your heads as kids the Sony dislike is so strong.

from the Alpha forums on
...Show more

I LIKE Sony products! I have a bunch of them. I've bought XBR's for twenty years, though my newest hi def is a Samsung. I've got a number of Beta's and Super-Betas. We have a PS2 and a PS3. Plus a number of other products, such as two small Mini-Dv camcorders, though my bigger ones are Canons. This includes two Sony clock radios. I also have two Sony production monitors, a 13" and a 20".

We don't have to dislike Sony to feel as though one product in a product line isn't the bee's knees.



Oct 09, 2008 at 01:10 PM
Beni
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p.11 #16 · Some better A900 samples


Have to admit I'd love a better solution than the shoe on my 5D which doesn't make a good connection with the 580ex mkII, oh I forgot, that's because the flashes design is so bad....


Oct 09, 2008 at 01:15 PM
Lotusm50
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p.11 #17 · Some better A900 samples


Beni wrote:
Have to admit I'd love a better solution than the shoe on my 5D which doesn't make a good connection with the 580ex mkII, oh I forgot, that's because the flashes design is so bad....



My Metz 54 MZ4 doesn't like to fire on my 5D either, so it maybe it is the 5D's "old-tech, industry standard" shoe that's the problem. It's been a real challenge. Maybe the Minolta shoe would be better.




Oct 09, 2008 at 01:33 PM
douglasf13
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p.11 #18 · Some better A900 samples


The Minolta shoe is a catch 22 for me. I would say it's definitely a better tech, but, as a studio shooter, it's frustrating to have to use adapters for things like Pocket Wizards. Hopefully, once Sony gains some more market share, companies like PW will start offering a Sony option.


Oct 09, 2008 at 02:14 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.11 #19 · Some better A900 samples


Mel Gross wrote:
This looks like what I've been saying here all along.

If Sony had come out with this camera a year ago, when we first began to hear rumors about this sensor, it would have been a *great* camera. Because, the top cameras of a year ago look to be what Sony was trying to beat, or equal.

But, it didn't come out a year ago, it's come out now. And now, either those cameras have been discontinued in favor of better ones, or are about to be discontinued in favor of better ones.

In light of that fact, the a900 is no
...Show more

Probably still in a very strong position given that the forthcoming Nikon and Canon "Pro" models will sell for thousands more than the A900. Nikon could release a 24MP D800 at some point at a cheaper price point like the D700, but I would not expect that for at least another year or so. They will wish to milk the more expensive D3X as long as they are able.

Mel Gross wrote:
Sony is trying to position this as their "pro" camera, but compared to the so called "real" pro cameras from Canon and Nikon, it's not competitive.



Sony have not claimed the A900 as being a "Pro" camera. They seem to go out of their way to not claim that in fact. It's positioned just like the 5D according to them. As such, it has some features lacking in the 5DII and lacks others.

Mel Gross wrote:
Many pros who do buy Canon and Nikons pro models will buy the next down as well, so that area is off limits to Sony.

None of those pros who buy a less expensive, lighter, smaller body for their second, or third body, will buy the Sony, AND new lenses as well.

And Sony doesn't have the cameras to compete at the high end to get the pros to buy this as that second, or third body.

People who own Canon and Nikon, for the most part, are not going to buy into this. A few will, to be sure, but not
...Show more

I think that is pretty much true in that buying into the A900 would mean your either changing systems completely if you were heavily invested in Nikon or Canon with multiple bodies and lenses. A few of us here do not actually fit into that stereotype, shooting with mostly Alternative lenses and even various systems. Mainstream though, you are probably correct.

Mel Gross wrote:
The more tests that people here have been demanding we need to see before dismissing this as being one of the "best", are now coming out. They are backing up most of the early field reports on the camera, which is to say that this is good, but not up to the new models.

So, again, where can Sony position this? They might have to drop the actual MSRP. The Canon 5D mkII lists for $2,700, and will be selling for less in a few months, once initial heavy demand is satisfied, possibly around $2,500. The Nikon D700 lists for
...Show more

I for one would be extremely happy paying $3K for an A900 if it were to live up IQ wise to the Canon 1DsIII. I don't think you can buy a used 1DsIII for that amount and the replacement will likely be twice as much. So, if the IQ is at least at that level, the other features such as the viewfinder and in body IS matter more to me than ultimate high ISO quality. It simply comes down to feature priorities for each buyer.



Oct 09, 2008 at 02:47 PM
douglasf13
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p.11 #20 · Some better A900 samples


I'm surprised how critical so many have been of the A900 on this forum. On the Sony forum on dpreview, I've noticed quite a few Canon/Nikon users that are or will be buying the A900.


Oct 09, 2008 at 03:10 PM
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