Paul Buff wrote:
One caveat: Every color meter I have used varies in reading dramatically depending on the intensity of light it sees. Take a reading at 10', then move it to 5' and you may see 200° difference from the same light at the same settings. And no, this isn't caused by room colors, etc - it's the meter's non-linearities. I have two Minoltas and a Gossen. I have learned to use RAW and actual shots to determine actual color in the real world.
Even then you will see 200° variations on the various grey densities on a quality grey card - so cameras have the same non-linearity problems, I find Nikons better than Canons in this regard....Show more →
Wwwwoooww. Never heard that before. That's just one more reason for me to spot a neutral tone in Lightroom in post, which is what I do right now, rather than depending on auto-wb.
Wwwwoooww. Never heard that before. That's just one more reason for me to spot a neutral tone in Lightroom in post, which is what I do right now, rather than depending on auto-wb.
That's what we've been doing since the concept of color photography was invented. Nothing is more certain than seeing that gray looks gray in the final print.
I like what I'm seeing in the upcoming AB Max. These are some quality upgrades to the old units. I still think he needs to modify the logo and label on the side of the units to give it a more polished look.
Paul has a recent history of designing his gear to look like it came from Radio Shack. Just give us black and discrete. The new AB units do look pretty good. I wonder what the flash tube cover material is? It'd be great to have one avail that converts the strobe to 3200 K.
Also, are the light modifiers white on the outside or is that just for the graphic? Will the beauty dish have a frosted disc cover?
Deezie wrote:
I like what I'm seeing in the upcoming AB Max. These are some quality upgrades to the old units. I still think he needs to modify the logo and label on the side of the units to give it a more polished look.
Nice going, Buff.
Ain't going to happen. Bee lovers love the Bee look. Bee hater hate the Bee look. There are far more lovers than haters
cineski wrote:
Paul has a recent history of designing his gear to look like it came from Radio Shack. Just give us black and discrete. The new AB units do look pretty good. I wonder what the flash tube cover material is? It'd be great to have one avail that converts the strobe to 3200 K.
Also, are the light modifiers white on the outside or is that just for the graphic? Will the beauty dish have a frosted disc cover?
The beauty dish has an aluminum shield. A frosted shield is possible but not in the works. The PLM fabrics are black or white on the outside depending on the fabric used. The ABMAX flashtube covers are frosted Pyrex and are on snap clips for easy lamp replacement. The reflectors are aluminum inside and out.
Ain't going to happen. Bee lovers love the Bee look. Bee hater hate the Bee look.
That's a little simplistic and inaccurate. As a former owner, I can tell you that I liked the Bees, but never liked the graphics, both on the sides and back. I found the design unprofessional and poorly executed. This is coming not from opinion, but experience. I'm a parter at a creative agency that has won many awards for our campaigns, most of which involved national and international brands from Nike to Victoria's Secret and BMW.
Your strength may be electronics, but it's not in design, as evidenced by the ad you ran in last month's Digital Photo Pro (the one with the monkeys). Many small business owners make the misstep of wearing too many hats and diminish their opportunities. I would be happy to help you find a design that incorporates your ideas, but is executed in way that fosters brand integrity and high aesthetic values.
Paul, any thoughts to offering a frosted Pyrex cover that'll convert the daylight to tungsten? That would be absolutely huge (well, for Einstein, too as that's what I'd be buying if the specs work). Just some thoughts on aluminum covers, I'm surprised they aren't black on the outsides. I'm personally a lighting purist and don't want anything reflective outside what I chose to be reflective (I'm a believer that everything behind the actual light source should be black because rogue reflections aren't good). It would also be cool to offer an add-on frosted pyrex shield for the beauty dish so we wouldn't get the donut effect.
That's a little simplistic and inaccurate. As a former owner, I can tell you that I liked the Bees, but never liked the graphics, both on the sides and back. I found the design unprofessional and poorly executed. This is coming not from opinion, but experience. I'm a parter at a creative agency that has won many awards for our campaigns, most of which involved national and international brands from Nike to Victoria's Secret and BMW.
Your strength may be electronics, but it's not in design, as evidenced by the ad you ran in last month's Digital Photo Pro (the one with the monkeys). Many small business owners make the misstep of wearing too many hats and diminish their opportunities. I would be happy to help you find a design that incorporates your ideas, but is executed in way that fosters brand integrity and high aesthetic values. ...Show more →
Meh, I think the case could easily be made that the Alien Bees name and branding are pretty unique. What are you going to remember, the hundreds of other flash heads that look exactly alike and have model names with random letters and numbers or ALIEN BEES and their flashy colors?
Props to PCB. As far as I can tell, he's the one with a hugely successful company, not you. Seems to be working for him.
Plus, WHO REALLY CARES what they look like? How are the Alien Bees units "unprofessional"? As long as you are getting the images your clients want (which you can with an AB setup), do clients really question the look of your flash heads and draw conclusions about you? A black AB unit MAYBE with the graphic above the power slider covered up has nothing unprofessional looking IMO.
That's a little simplistic and inaccurate. As a former owner, I can tell you that I liked the Bees, but never liked the graphics, both on the sides and back. I found the design unprofessional and poorly executed. This is coming not from opinion, but experience. I'm a parter at a creative agency that has won many awards for our campaigns, most of which involved national and international brands from Nike to Victoria's Secret and BMW.
Your strength may be electronics, but it's not in design, as evidenced by the ad you ran in last month's Digital Photo Pro (the one with the monkeys). Many small business owners make the misstep of wearing too many hats and diminish their opportunities. I would be happy to help you find a design that incorporates your ideas, but is executed in way that fosters brand integrity and high aesthetic values. ...Show more →
After 30 years in the biz, I can safely say, I have never had a client question me or those I worked for, about brand or if of any equipment used met their idea of what is "professional". Let alone pass judgement on whether the selection of said equipment was appropriate to be used in their presence. The clients I work for are far more interested if I can get the job done to their satisfaction, within their budget and delivered on time. All of which have nothing to do with case or logo design/color of a monolight used on set.
In fact last fall, I was assisting a friend on an outdoor mountain location for a major clothing manufacturer. The generator we were using died damaging both packs in the process. Luckily I drove myself to the location and had a pair of AB1600s in my car along with a fully charged Vagabond ... the shoot continued as scheduled ... trust me ... the art director was not concerned with the likeness of a flying insect on the casing of the Bees ... he was thankful that the six models he hired for the afternoon were not standing around cooling their heels. It would have taken less than an hour to fetch a replacement generator and packs ... but we didn't have to.
Could I live without the Bee logo? ... yeah ... but I'm not going to lose sleep over it or worry about what others may think .... I only care that they perform when I need them to. They do. It now looks like the Bees just took a giant step forward regardless of color choices, case design or logos that adorn them.
cineski wrote:
Paul, any thoughts to offering a frosted Pyrex cover that'll convert the daylight to tungsten? That would be absolutely huge (well, for Einstein, too as that's what I'd be buying if the specs work). Just some thoughts on aluminum covers, I'm surprised they aren't black on the outsides. I'm personally a lighting purist and don't want anything reflective outside what I chose to be reflective (I'm a believer that everything behind the actual light source should be black because rogue reflections aren't good). It would also be cool to offer an add-on frosted pyrex shield for the beauty dish so we wouldn't get the donut effect....Show more →
Absolutely huge? I'd say we could sell one a month. Black on the outside of the reflectors? OK for purists but in the real world nobody much cares. Frosted BD panel - yeh - good idea. Finding someone to make it at a decent price is another matter.
Future Man wrote: Plus, WHO REALLY CARES what they look like? How are the Alien Bees units "unprofessional"? As long as you are getting the images your clients want (which you can with an AB setup), do clients really question the look of your flash heads and draw conclusions about you?
butchM wrote: After 30 years in the biz, I can safely say, I have never had a client question me or those I worked for, about brand or if of any equipment used met their idea of what is "professional". Let alone pass judgement on whether the selection of said equipment was appropriate to be used in their presence. The clients I work for are far more interested if I can get the job done to their satisfaction, within their budget and delivered on time. All of which have nothing to do with case or logo design/color of a monolight used on set....Show more →
These are the kind of misguided thoughts that the average person thinks when they open a business, and then they wonder why it fails. The two of you seem to have no apparent knowledge about positioning a brand in the mind of the public.
It is naive to think that appearance has little value and that form over function is the primary motive for decision-making in the human animal. We are driven by appearance, which defines status, health, strength, and the perceived survival of the species. Are you more attracted to the overweight, pimple-faced woman or the supermodel on the cover of vogue? Would you rather pick up that supermodel for a first-date in a late-model BMW or a Ford Minivan in need of body work and a paint job? And do you feel she would be more impressed that the date is special by taking her to an elegant restaurant in an Armani suit or to a burger-joint clad in Kmart's best sportswear?
You guys asking the wrong questions and making false assumptions: "Plus, WHO REALLY CARES what they look like?" "After 30 years in the biz, I can safely say, I have never had a client question me or those I worked for,"
Your concern seems to lie in what the clients think. But Paul is not selling lights to your clients. He's selling them to photographers. And if you don't understand the most basic premise of positioning a brand and how it relates to emotions, acceptance and risk, then you're really not prepared to have an intelligent discussion on how this works. People make critical decisions (especially on purchases) far more on emotion than on reason. Have you not seen the effect that advertising has had on people's buying habits and the massive debt they've accumulated?
Your responses indicate that you don't understand the powerful grip that branding holds in the marketplace. Until then, we'll keep seeing these knee-jerk responses that provide little insight. Of all people to diminish the value of an image or look -- it shouldn't be photographers...
Some amazing products have just been announced. and we're fighting over branding issues...? The Einsteins will be black, for those after a more professional look.
I think branding issues are pretty relevant with regards to the product this thread is about. I would have to agree with Deezie, most unfortunately that is, but that's just the way the world works.
On the other hand, clients don't have to see the Bees before the shoot and when they get the results they would hardly give an f whether the strobes used where yellow/pink with big "cartoonish" branding or big ass, sleek looking Profotos.
Eventhough the technical specs of the Maxs exceed pretty much everything that's on the market right now, a lot of people will still consider the ABs in general a no-go because of the product branding.
I think we could be safe to assume that Paul won't lose any Bee customers if his products looked more professional. Cmon, bees and bright colors make it look like Toys-R-Us . . . not that its going to detract one from using it, but I think, simply because this is what everyone says, that if the product design looked less like toys, people wouldn't complain.
Paul does it because he can, and he can piss off a lot of people doing it and they'll still sell.
On the other hand, the ABMAX unites tout some impressive specs. I'll be honest in that its hard for me to swallow the cheesy colors and designs.
The graphics on the side of the AB units are just stickers that come off easily and smoothly. Just get a black unit, and take off the sticker if you're so concerned about a picture of a cartoon Bee on the sides.
The graphics on the back panel is a different story, but I honestly don't care.
