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Archive 2008 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing

  
 
RyanGphoto
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p.2 #1 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


You always want a separate drive for each if you can afford it. Partitioning a drive doesnt help with anything.

You dont need to backup your OS at all. YOU DO need to back up your files.

The scratch disk should generally be on the fastest drive you have, because that is the drive that is accessed the most while in photoshop after ram. Having a 64 bit OS and using more ram would be a better idea, but if that is not a possibility then you want to put the OS on a fast drive for boot up (nothing else really), then put the files on ANY drive that you want doesn't matter really, but the scratch disk and the swap file should be on fast drives.

Ryan



Aug 21, 2008 at 10:44 PM
John Mills
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p.2 #2 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


make sure you pick yourself up a good monitor e.g. EIZO


Aug 22, 2008 at 07:51 AM
dan727
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p.2 #3 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


vidoprof wrote:
You dont need to backup your OS at all. YOU DO need to back up your files.


I would make an occasional image of the OS. Losing an OS won't kill you... but do you really want the to spend the day reinstalling an OS, drivers, patches, software, software patches... etc. With an image you can let it run and be back up and running in a fraction of the time. Even if you only did it once a month.. you would save gobs of time.

Ghost for DOS works great for this. You can make an automated boot up CD that can write to an external USB drive or a networked drive like DROBO... just goto www.bootdisk.com and get an boot disc.



Aug 22, 2008 at 09:38 AM
therock
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p.2 #4 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


I recently home built a Vista x64, Quadcore 2.4 GHz, 8GB RAM, and a WD 750GB HDD on a Gigabyte board. The specs go on... The machine just screams.
Adobe announced Lightroom2 will run well on 64 bit utilizing 4 cores.
I am running the trial LR2 and my core usage meter shows all 4 cores stroking. The same with Adobe bridge, but not in CS3.

I back up to an external eSATA enclosure running two enterprise WD 750GB HDD's in RAID 1. For images only.

All parts from Newegg.



Aug 22, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Alistair Watson
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p.2 #5 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


therock wrote:
[...]
I am running the trial LR2 and my core usage meter shows all 4 cores stroking. The same with Adobe bridge, but not in CS3.
[...]


Yeah that is weird, I just checked my core utilisation on my MP and when I do something in Bridge (say preview 1000 1D3 RAW files) all cores are utilised but in Photoshop not. I know Photoshop is a 32-bit app just figured Bridge would be the same.



Aug 22, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Eric Larsen
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p.2 #6 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


I just went through the whole what-pc-for-Photoshop research project and came-up with the following build based on LOTS of research. I was interested in staying around $1200 as well:

Quad core Q9550 (currently just over $300)
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R (just over $100)
4 gb Corsair PC 6400 RAM ($79)
EVGA 256-P2-N751-TR 8600GT nVidia Card ($79)
Velociraptor 300gb HD for OS and Apps ($280)
2 x WD Caviar 640GB HDDs in RAID 1 for data/Scratch ($169)
BFG EPS-850W PSU ($79)
Antec 300 Case ($59)
Vista 64 bit

Conclusions I came to:

Get a quad core as you are trying to be somewhat future proof. There is no free lunch but you won't have to upgrade as quickly. Buy at the value break point and not at the bleeding edge. CS4 and other programs should start to exploit it.

Look for quality RAM values. Gamer RAM, while unnecessary, is found at good prices. Get 4gigs 800mhz to start, expand as needed.

Motherboards are a whole headache unto their own. I settled on this one after pouring over too many reviews.

I chose not to RAID 0 my machine. I think that the velociraptor and caviars will absolutely scream. RAID 1 for data with ESATA backups for offsite storage. I use Acronis TrueImage for mirroring drives.

The video card presented one of the most confusing aspects for me. I settled on a good cheap fast nVidia card to handle current Photoshop and program needs (non-gamer) knowing that card choice could change radically once CS4 specs are finalized. The card I settled-on was chosen due to the overwhelming number of reviews I read indicating it plays nice with Vista -- something not all cards will do.

The PSU might be overkill in terms of wattage but this particular PSU scales power proportionately. In other words, it's still over 80% efficient at only 20% of rated output. So there is plenty of head room while still achieving efficiency at low wattage usage.

The 300 is a good case with plenty of room and ventilation. No gimmicky lights and sirens and a very good layout and price.

Monitors constitute their own headache. Like the video card, I am choosing to go with an interim monitor until I get out of graduate school next spring. So I'm looking for a good monitor to use for general purposes like school work now which will become the menus/palettes monitor that accompanies a future, image-grade monitor in a dual monitor setup next year.

Anyway, I thought I'd share what I came-up with after a month of reading forums, reviews, and opinions.

Cheers and good luck!



Aug 22, 2008 at 02:01 PM
ajkessler
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p.2 #7 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Eric Larsen wrote:
I just went through the whole what-pc-for-Photoshop research project and came-up with the following build based on LOTS of research. I was interested in staying around $1200 as well:

Quad core Q9550 (currently just over $300)
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R (just over $100)
4 gb Corsair PC 6400 RAM ($79)
EVGA 256-P2-N751-TR 8600GT nVidia Card ($79)
Velociraptor 300gb HD for OS and Apps ($280)
2 x WD Caviar 640GB HDDs in RAID 1 for data/Scratch ($169)
BFG EPS-850W PSU ($79)
Antec 300 Case ($59)
Vista 64 bit



I built a nearly identical machine a little less than a year ago. I got the first quad core (6600?) right after they slashed the price, and also an evga 8800gts. Also didn't raid the drives, I just mirror them manually. Additionally, didn't go with vista, still with xp, so this thing really screams. I went with the Antec p182 case, as it was supposed to be quieter. Still real noisy though.

I'm able to stitch 7 1ds3 files, while working on another 1-2 gig file in ps3, with bridge et al open, and everything runs smoothly. Not only that, the stitch takes under 5 minutes while in the background.



Aug 22, 2008 at 06:38 PM
Hammy
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p.2 #8 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Spend a bit more to get a mobo with RAID-10 built in. Just about any set of drives at RAID10 will both scream and have redundancy. I've been running RAID10 on my servers for years and they blow RAID5 away. I've had drives fail, and I still keep running - swapping out the bad drive when I can.
CPU and memory will be quite fast - but loading and saving files can be a bottleneck.

Get a 64bit OS, and 8+Gb of memory. I have Vista64 and when CS3 runs out of its measy 2Gb of space, Vista uses the memory as swap space. Only when I use all 8Gb up - do things get slow going to the hard drive.
Also, CS4 is already slated to be 64bit.
Any quad CPU will do (overclock if you feel comfortable doing it - I've been running my Q6600 at 3Ghz for over 6 months without a hitch)
1Gb video card is serious overkill - but prices are cheap now-a-days, and if you want to do any gaming, the rest of your rig will handle it. But with no gaming, spend the extra money on other parts.



Aug 22, 2008 at 11:25 PM
Chip Payet
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p.2 #9 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Wow, I'd been so busy the last week, I had no idea this thread had taken off as it has. Awesome -- thank you!!

I've had to put my new PC on hold for a couple months due to some other expenses and wanting to pay off a couple things first, but it still should not be that long. Business usually starts picking up again in mid-September. And it is nice being able to run this expense through the business rather than personal, so it's easier to justify to the wife.

I will be sure to keep this thread bookmarked so I can find it quickly when needed.

Again, thank you all so much, what a great forum!



Aug 23, 2008 at 08:34 AM
therock
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p.2 #10 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Keep in mind this on graphics cards.

Powercolor cards found on Newegg to name one are the top of the line in quality in the ATI line up. Then it's Radeon, and Saphire.

I was under the impression it was the reverse until I found out. I run a Powercolor 512 MB card.

Also note ATI All-In-Wonder cards do not work with various look up tables causing calibration havoc. After much pain and suffering on my last machine and calling Pantone I found this out. All other ATI cards are OK.



Aug 23, 2008 at 10:29 AM
purduephotog
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p.2 #11 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


hidden_Markov wrote:
RAID for personal use I will agree. Enterprise level, has its place and is vital. Of course at enterprise you aren't running $50 blue light special cards, the built in small chip in your motherboard, or even software raid...Not saying they are bad, home use they can be nice to tinker with.


I'll disagree strongly here. RAID protects your data. It does not back up your data. If you are going to keep your files live I say- keep it raided.

I have lost drives in arrays before (both at work and at home) and been able to recover (with a lot of scared waiting) all of my imagery, intact, without having to do restore from DVDs. This month I started bringing old RAW video collections back online to be moved to 1tb SATA drives only to find out that the DVDs I so laboriously burned and backed up aren't readable- and they were top of the line.

Keep your data on a HD.

Now, my system was built when 500gb was a decent pricepoint. Right now 750s can be had for 80 to 100$, and 1tbs (I just saw) around 120-150. It's 4x 500gb in RAID-5- with a dedicated hardware XOR card (250$+). I also have 2x RAID-0 drives set up for video capture. and swap space for photos.

I pursue panoramic stitching- and probably will upgrade to a quad chip at some point in the future. The current chip is 3ghz C2D and processes photos in C1pro at about 5 seconds per frame.

I would recommend the WD 'green' drives for their use in your system. They're dead quiet, have great performance and use less power. I've got 4x of them in another system (4 tb) as a backup 'online' server for large files.

I think your system is a bit overkill and would heartily recommend a better monitor (such as the NEC 2x90 series). However if you want to upgrade down the road then you're approaching it in the right manner.

DO NOT NEGLECT YOUR BACKUP SOLUTION. I use a SATA bay for mine (naked drive slides in, close the door, drive spins up) to keep all my data. I rotate through 4x drives, moving them off site to another location for fire stability. RAID IS NOT BACKUP.

Oh yeah- and if you build it yourself you can always check out fatwallet for deals on computer components- they keep track of what sites are selling and how much. Saved quite a bit of money on my upgrades.



Edited on Aug 23, 2008 at 11:59 AM



Aug 23, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Atrawick
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p.2 #12 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


I need help with this subject too. I am new to photography and processing.
My Current system.
2yr old gateway.
Amd 3800x2 processor
1g of ram
40g HD (was installed when the factory 250 went out)
Motherboard has a built in raid controller.
Xp media edition OS

Yeah its slow!!
I want to upgrade it alittle bit because money is tight right now!
Thinking going to 4g of Ram. A different videocard.
For as HD's not sure if i want to use raid yet.
Planning on using a 100g for OS and 500 or 1TB for files.
What is a scratch drive and what is its purpose?
any recommendations welcome.
Allen



Aug 23, 2008 at 12:23 PM
BobCollette
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p.2 #13 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


A scratch drive is a hard drive that Photoshop uses when it runs out of physical memory (RAM). It's analogous to Virtual Memory (swap file) that Windows uses when it runs out of RAM. Ideally, the Windows swap file and Photoshop scratch disk should be located on physically different drives so that they don't slow each other down. Also, ideally, you would want your Photoshop scratch disk to be a very fast drive to minimize the slowdown when Photoshop uses it.


Aug 23, 2008 at 12:36 PM
Chip Payet
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p.2 #14 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Hey, thanks to some tips mentioned here, I just managed to noticeably improve the performance of CS3, as I did not understand how the scratch disk thing worked. But let me make sure of a couple things:

Currently, I have 2 300GB SATA drives in the PC, along with a 750GB NAS and a 750GB MyBook Essentials external HD; the last one is not as fast as I'd hoped when I purchased it, and the NAS is very slow. 2GB RAM is all I have at the moment, but a 1GB nVidia video card (spelling?).

The My Pictures folder totals about 250GB.

If I have the entire "My Pictures" folder on the primary drive, along with the other stuff I have there, including the OS, that will pretty much max that out, but would leave the secondary HD practically empty. Is that the best way to set it up with my current system?

Or am I better to have the OS on the primary drive (current location), put all the pictures on the secondary drive, and use the external MyBook drive as the scratch disk, even though it's not very fast?

Or better to have the pictures on the MyBook drive and use the secondary internal drive as the scratch disk?

Edited on Aug 23, 2008 at 10:46 PM



Aug 23, 2008 at 10:44 PM
tived
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p.2 #15 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Interesting topic, and such differences between what everyone seems to think is the optimal for Photoshop workstation, be it PC or Mac.

But lets stay with the PC side of things, since this is what the OP asked about.
Lets start from scratch or there about.... :-)
Windows, uses ram and a page-file to store current data, which it will swap in and out as it needs it (server version of windows does this better then non-server ms-OS)

We will assume that you will use the fastest device your money can buy....

So you will need to accommodate this requirement first, the more ram the less windows will use the page-file. There are different theories about what is best here, lets just say that windows will at some stage use this page-file, so it would be good to locate this page-file on a separate hard drive or array such as RAID-0 and not any other raid-type, because this is not any data you will care about once you turn off your computer.

Do NOT locate your Page-file on the same hard-drive or array as your OS or Photoshop's scratch disk(s)

The faster the hard drives are the sooner you can feed your ram and the faster your ram is the sooner it can feed your CPU's and soon your graphics cards will start to play a more important role when working with photoshop, but that is currently not official AFAIK.

Photoshop, loves ram and loves fast hard drives, basically anything that is fast! Photoshop works a little like your OS, it works in the CPU's memory, then into your ram and finally it is off to your hard drive, known to Photoshop as Scratch disk. Secondly, Photoshop loves hard drives that can write really fast, like really really fast! So it can off load its saved files, especially when you are batch processing.

So where are we at, at the moment, well, we know that Windows likes to have a startup disk, this could also be on an array, like raid-0, something fast, but for simplicity lets keep it to a single fast drive, such as a Western Digital Raptor which is a 10 000 rpm fast hard drive. (SAS or SCSI 15k drives would be better!...and I have not tested Solid State Drives yet!) it is really just down to how much do you want to spend.

Your OS drive can be 74, 150 or 300GB but it is really only to hold your OS! so 74Gb is still enough atm :-)

Now your page file, add two drives and RAID them together in RAID-0 approx 100GB in total is fine. That takes care of the OS, now it is Photoshop's turn. It will be installed on the OS partition, which is fine. but now we need drives for our scratch disk or disks! You can have multiple scratch disks, again here, I want to use a RAID-0 in two or more disks stripped together, to improve the speed. and you can repeat this for as many scratch disks you may need.

Lastly but not least important is the hard drives here you store your final data and therefor your livelihood, here we need two things, really fast writes but also a sense of security :-) so, here RAID-0 would be nice because if will give us fast writes, but it offers no security or redundancy so we have to come up with something, that offers redundancy, such as RAID 0+1 or RAID 5 or 6. Here we will probably have to compromise somewhere and decide what is most important, speed or security.

The speed of your RAID 0+1 or Raid 5 or 6 depends alot on your drives as well as the controller you choose to use, NB: your onboard raid controller isn't going to offer the greatest speed here, so you will have to buy one you plug into your PCIexpress port.

Now, you have completed your photoshop machine, in terms of internal hard drives. All you have left to do with hard drives is to attach something like a Network attached Storage unit, to back up your work, that is separate to your computer.

RAM: You should fill your computer with as much ram as it can accommodate and that your OS can support. Faster is gold! Now on some workstation main board you will have to use ECC ram, which is not as fast as your Desktop ram, but they do offer you a cleaner data stream into your CPU's and that is not a bad thing, so again quality over speed penalty here

Graphics cards, they didn't use to be important, but it looks like they are going to play a part in the heavy lifting in the future versions of Photoshop, since CS4 is not officially released yet, I am only speculating :-) but i will put my money on it anyway. How this is going to be implemented is the interesting part, but I have two Quadro graphics cards and they didn't seem to mind :-)

Ooops this wasn't the optimal- uber photoshop workstation, just the ideal, well to me, that is the same thing.

Finally, you can have the super fastest computer, but if your workflow sucks, sucks as in slow too many clicks to get the job done, it doesn't matter how fast your computer sits and waits for you, unless you are contributing your unused cpu-cycles to bigger and better things, such as Climate-predictions :-)

You first and foremost need to look at your workflow - good workflow will compensate for a lot of poorly spend hardware dollars.

Just one more note on the actual computer - and that is your power supply it has to be able to supply you with enough juice, or should I say clean juice, as in no sparks in the power supplied, and better yet, if it can do so quietly.
Unlike my own Zippy 850W workstation power supply, super clean but man it is noisy.

Good luck....

Henrik

PS: btw....what are you going to be looking at?? Hopefully something with a good gamut, so you can see all that processing didn't go completely to waste. EIZO, NEC and Samsung makes some excellent products and also some really shitty one's but if you stick to the first lot! you should be fine. Monitors in the middle of the road, there are Dell's which can be had for a fair price, but they are no EIZO nor are they NEC's

like with anything, you get what you pay for....but my money would be on a NEC 2690, which I think will be a good compromise and if you have more money and need the very best, well, then, it will have to be the EIZO CG-series like the CG-221.

Having said all that, how about a high dynamic range monitor, that can display more the EV 21....mama !!! Ouch!!! ...but nothing to output it onto!!!





Aug 24, 2008 at 12:13 AM
Chip Payet
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p.2 #16 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Henrik -- wow, I'm going to have to read over all that several times to absorb it all, and I'm sure I'll still have to get my IT guy to read it.

But if I can see how to apply your info to my existing set-up, I should have the OS on my primary drive, perhaps all the pictures on the external HD, and use the secondary internal drive as the scratch disk? The only problem there is that the external HD is the slowest of them all. But if I keep the secondary drive pretty empty so CS3 can use essentially the whole thing as a scratch disk, will that compensate?



Aug 24, 2008 at 09:25 AM
tived
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p.2 #17 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Hi Chip,

the setup described is extreme :-) but that is how it will run ideally :-) at least this will make it as fast as it possible can.

Its all about eliminating bottlenecks, and the biggest bottlenecks in our computer systems are currently the hard drives.

Start out with what you got, then try to plan for your upgrades, you can add bit by bit. Invest in a good controller, to go in the fastest slot on your main board.

So yes, you current system, keep one disk for your OS and applications and then a second disk for scratch, if you can manage another internal disk, that would be great for your data, and then use your external disk for backup. depending on the interface on your external disk, it will be far too slow. If eSATA, it may work! but I would go out and buy another hard drive.

In my own case, I have system, with a windows page file of about 120gb it is basically two 73GB scsi drives 15k Stripped together and a scratch disk on 3 73GB SCSI disks in RAID-0 as well. my OS is on two 147GB RAID-0 SCSI disks and then I have two very fast 300GB SCSI disks also in RAID-0 for data, which is also backup to external drives. I would love to upgrade all these disk to even faster SCSI/SAS disks but it is currently just too expensive. I use two SCSI controllers to separate the data stream across.
my box is a dual Opteron Dualcore with 8gb of ram, room for another 8, but that is an expensive jump in this computers life cycle.

ask away if you have any questions

Henrik



Aug 24, 2008 at 05:00 PM
15Bit
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p.2 #18 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Chip,

There's some comprehensive answers here, and some pretty damn fast (and expensive) computers suggested. However, i think people have jumped the gun a bit. This is reflected in the variety of systems specified. Before recommending anything i would ask some questions about what you actually want:

1. What does this computer need to do? Photoshop and web browsing/Word etc only, or will you want games/movies/video encoding etc?

2. Who will be using the computer? Just you, or is it a family computer?

3. How much storage do you envisage yourself needing? How much space do you currently use?

4. How geeky are you? Will you be building this yourself and configuring RAID arrays etc, or will it be a friend doing it for you?

5. Is noise an issue?

6. Which operating system do you want to use?


- jools



Sep 18, 2008 at 05:11 AM
tomb18
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p.2 #19 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


Chip,
A lot of the answers are valid and go from very adequate to extremely adequate.

My system is based on a quad core running water cooled at 3.5GHz. I can state for a fact that photoshop does use all 4 cores for some activities such as HDR and stitching as well as some filters.
INHO, the most important thing is Ram. I have 8G on Vista 64 and I can handle 1.5G photoshop files without any disk swapping occuring. Only when I increase this will swapping occur and then the disks take over.
The newer version of PS has 64 bit support and I am sure it will not have a physical limit anymore before it needs to page to disk (or ram as it does now), so the more ram you have the better. Also the new version will use video ram and offer hardware acceleration so if you can afford a 1G video card go for it.

Again in my opinion, raid 0 is not a big advantage, but rather a disadvantage in the event of a disk failure.

So, my recommendation is
Quad core
8G ram on 64bit OS
Fast system disk such as a Raptor with the OS swap file located there
Additional fast disk for PS scratch space but only if you images (with layers etc) are over 1.5G (for a 1.5G file PS will automatically create a working copy of double the size)
Large disk for photos
External hard drive (or another large internal disk) for backup.
The down size with an internal disk for BU is that if you computer is stolen, your're USC.





Sep 19, 2008 at 02:45 PM
tomb18
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p.2 #20 · Build the ideal PC for photo-editing


15Bit wrote:
Chip,

There's some comprehensive answers here, and some pretty damn fast (and expensive) computers suggested. However, i think people have jumped the gun a bit. This is reflected in the variety of systems specified. Before recommending anything i would ask some questions about what you actually want:

1. What does this computer need to do? Photoshop and web browsing/Word etc only, or will you want games/movies/video encoding etc?

2. Who will be using the computer? Just you, or is it a family computer?

3. How much storage do you envisage yourself needing? How much space do you currently use?

4. How geeky are you?
...Show more

The OS should be Vista 64 if you want the best overall PS performance and multitasking. memory management is far better than XP64.




Sep 19, 2008 at 02:47 PM
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