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hans7451
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p.1 #1 · Copyright Problem


I've been photographing the sale and trophy pictures for my local county fair for the last two years. The county pays me per photograph and then they give the pictures to the kids (one goes to the buyer of the animal and they get to keep one). Last year after I photographed the fair the local newspaper wanted (pretty much demanded) copies of all of the grand champion animals so they could publish them in the newspaper. I called my contact at the county and she said it was pretty typical for the photographer to give them the pictures, so I gave them copies and permission to print for their fair wrap-up section. Not my favorite thing, but I live in a small town and don't want to look like the jerk.

Here's where the problem starts. I'm at the county fair today taking my pictures. I happen to glance at a paper one of the parents of the kid I'm taking pictures of has in her hand. It's an advertisement for the kids to take out ads in the local newspaper thanking their buyer by using their sale photos and printing them in the newspaper. On the ad there is one of my pictures (no credit given). Problem #1, they never had permission to print my pictures again, especially not in an ad, they are stealing my picture for them to make money... Problem #2, they are advertising for the kids to use the pictures I have taken for the ad, yet again using my pictures without my permission or payment. Last year they printed many of my pictures without giving me credit or having my permission to do so in various forms after the fair. I never really got angry, but I did say something to the editor at the time and they knew I wasn't going to stand for it.

I know this year they are going to be asking for the pictures again, and I really don't want to give them away right now especially since they have been using my pictures incorrectly. What would you do? Have I given up my right to copyright by the kids having a copy of the photo? Can they use them in an advertisement in the newspaper? I don't want to make any enemies, and I don't want to look like the jerk that won't let the kids use my pictures for the paper, but I feel like they're totally out of line. Sorry to ramble, but I'm at a loss.

Thanks


Aug 09, 2008 at 05:48 AM
NinaS
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p.1 #2 · Copyright Problem


do you have model releases on the kids? if not, then the paper can not use the images for any form of advertising, the kids/parents did not sign permission for that, did they?

Editorial is one thing, it is all about the kids, and they are probably proud to be in the paper ... but advertising for commercial profit is over the line

Aug 09, 2008 at 01:08 PM
jerryrock
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p.1 #3 · Copyright Problem


"The county pays me per photograph and then they give the pictures to the kids (one goes to the buyer of the animal and they get to keep one)."

You have to look into Copyright Law and determine if this is classified as "work for hire". If it is, then the County would own the rights to the photos.

By your statement it looks like they have control of the images and their distribution.

A written contract is always the best bet for situations like this.

Aug 09, 2008 at 01:29 PM
hans7451
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p.1 #4 · Copyright Problem


NinaS wrote:
do you have model releases on the kids? if not, then the paper can not use the images for any form of advertising, the kids/parents did not sign permission for that, did they?

Editorial is one thing, it is all about the kids, and they are probably proud to be in the paper ... but advertising for commercial profit is over the line


I have no idea if the kid in the picture they've already used signed a model release. I don't have any model releases for the kids, nor do I plan on using any of these pictures for anything I'd need one for.

I know it's all about the kids. I'm a school teacher and totally get that. I don't really mind giving them the pictures so they can show all of the winners in the paper, but trying to make money off my pictures is the real problem.

Edited on Aug 09, 2008 at 01:41 PM


Aug 09, 2008 at 01:41 PM
hans7451
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p.1 #5 · Copyright Problem


jerryrock wrote:
"The county pays me per photograph and then they give the pictures to the kids (one goes to the buyer of the animal and they get to keep one)."

You have to look into Copyright Law and determine if this is classified as "work for hire". If it is, then the County would own the rights to the photos.

By your statement it looks like they have control of the images and their distribution.

A written contract is always the best bet for situations like this.


I guess I don't really know what "work for hire" means, but I have a contract with the county saying I'll supply X amount, of a certain size, of each specific picture. No where in the contract does it say anything about giving up the rights and it says nothing about giving the pictures to anyone (including the newspaper). The member of the Fair board was also ticked that the paper was doing this and said I didn't have to give them the pictures. The county isn't my problem, the paper is.

Aug 09, 2008 at 01:45 PM
Brian Mullins
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p.1 #6 · Copyright Problem


Hans, it's not work for hire unless you signed something saying it was, which I'm guessing didn't happen.

You need to take this up with the editor of the paper. Printing the picture for editorial is one thing, but them using it commercially is indeed over the line and not only should you be compensated for the work, they could easily be taken to court for not having a release. Mistakes do happen sometimes but this was willful.


Aug 09, 2008 at 02:13 PM
hans7451
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p.1 #7 · Copyright Problem


Thanks Brian. The thing that really gets me is they use my picture commercially to advertise for them to use more of my pictures commercially. It just blows me away that a newspaper could be so ignorant. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't seeing this whole situation the wrong way.


Aug 09, 2008 at 02:22 PM
Brian Mullins
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p.1 #8 · Copyright Problem


Hans, nope.. you're right on the money. I am guessing here but I would imagine the paper thinks they can get away with it since they are in a small town. Honestly, unless you registered the photos with the copyright office, you may be able to recoup the "normal" price for a photo but it won't amount to any great deal of money.

Definitely talk with the editor. While it was willful it may have not been intentional (if that makes sense).

Aug 09, 2008 at 02:27 PM
hans7451
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p.1 #9 · Copyright Problem


You're right on about the small town newspaper, and I'm pretty sure they could turn this whole thing on me and give me a horrible public reputation if I refused to give them this years pictures, so I have to walk a fine line here. The pictures they really want are to be taken tonight, so I might register them with the copyright office if I really need to. I'm going to talk to the editor, but I'm trying to give myself some time to cool down first.

Aug 09, 2008 at 02:34 PM
jerryrock
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p.1 #10 · Copyright Problem


Brian Mullins wrote:
Hans, it's not work for hire unless you signed something saying it was, which I'm guessing didn't happen.


That's not quite right Brian. In fact you have it backwards:









Aug 09, 2008 at 09:28 PM
Brian Mullins
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p.1 #11 · Copyright Problem


Jerry, not sure where you got that from but it is incorrect in this context. As Hans is not an employee of the paper, then unless another agreement was made, it is not considered work for hire. In the US, the photographer is ALWAYS the copyright owner unless he is employed by the person requesting the photos (such as a paper) or another agreement was made. Per US Copyright Law:

(Source: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf)

If a work is created by an independent contractor (that
is, someone who is not an employee under the general
common law of agency), then the work is a specially ordered
or commissioned work, and part 2 of the statutory definition
applies. Such a work can be a work made for hire only if both
of the following conditions are met: (1) it comes within one
of the nine categories of works listed in part 2 of the definition
and (2) there is a written agreement between the parties
specifying that the work is a work made for hire.


Edited on Aug 09, 2008 at 10:22 PM


Aug 09, 2008 at 10:20 PM
RDKirk
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p.1 #12 · Copyright Problem


Jerry, you didn't get that definition from a Canadian source, did you? That is the way it works in Canada--uniquely, I think.

But in the US and most other Berne Convention signatory countries, if the author does not specifically transfer the copyright as a condition of employment or contract agreement, the author owns it.

Aug 09, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Genes Home
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p.1 #13 · Copyright Problem


Hans,

My two cents on this situation.

Since you indicated that you do have a contract, and seem to have talked to the county official re your requirement to deliver photos, it would appear that you own the copyrights (as per the normal situation). Depending on how much time and money you wish to spend on this, there are two approaches you could take:

1. Get with a local lawyer and draft up a nicely worded cease and desist letter to the paper, indicating that you originally delivered the photos to them for a specific use, they have violated that use, and you expect them to cease such violation. Also indicate that they acting without signed model releases for the individuals appearing in the pictures, and that if they do not cease publication you will notify each family of their rights to take action against the paper and to obtain redress, monetary or otherwise.

2. Do the letter yourself.

3. In any case, get with the county to modify your contract to assure that you have given them only a limited rights use (per your initial post above), and that further distribution or release is at your discretion. THEN, when the paper asks for pictures this year....be very polite.....and hand them a copy of a contract indicating the fee they will pay for the photos (be reasonable) and limiting their use to a single publication in an editorial mode only.

You have the legal (though you probably don't have the money to pursue it) and moral high ground here, so being nice in your insistence that the paper play by the rules will only help your professional and personal reputation.

Best of luck.

Aug 10, 2008 at 03:35 AM
jerryrock
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p.1 #14 · Copyright Problem


Brian Mullins wrote:
Jerry, not sure where you got that from but it is incorrect in this context.


That excerpt was taken directly from copyright law posted on the US Copyright Website:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap2.html

Work for Hire can fall under many categories and the definition is not as straightforward as you may believe. In the OP's case, the photo can be interpreted as part of a package. The child gets the stuffed animal and the photo from the county. As such it can be interpreted as a collaborative effort and the copyright belongs to the employer (county).

In any case, a written contract that specifies the details would clearly define ownership.

Aug 10, 2008 at 07:29 AM
RDKirk
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p.1 #15 · Copyright Problem


Work for Hire can fall under many categories and the definition is not as straightforward as you may believe. In the OP's case, the photo can be interpreted as part of a package. The child gets the stuffed animal and the photo from the county. As such it can be interpreted as a collaborative effort and the copyright belongs to the employer (county).

The excerpt you used presumed the work was already fully defined as "work for hire."

But when you go back to the factors that define "work for hire," as you mentioned, it's not as straightforward as it may seem. Importantly, though, anyone who is an employer should pay very close attention to the fact that defining "work for hire" is deliberately slanted to the benefit of the author, not the employer.

The categories by which a work is defined as "work for hire" are very specific and can not be assumed to cover things that might appear to be similar. Not just any "collaborative effort" is automatically "work for hire."

That's why, for instance, the copyrights of images US commercial photographers shoot--even though always commissioned and always part of a "collaborative effort" ---are still always owned by the photographer, unless the contract specifically declares otherwise. The mere facts that it's a commissioned work and part of a collaborative effort never indicates it's work for hire.

That's not just for photography. If an ad agency contracts me to write a jingle for a television ad (a commissioned work and part of a collaborative effort) the copyright of that jingle is mine unless the contract specifies otherwise. If a magazine contracts me to write a series of articles--same thing. If a book publisher contracts me to write a series of detective novels...same thing.

Aug 10, 2008 at 02:16 PM
Brian Mullins
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p.1 #16 · Copyright Problem


Jerry, not trying to be argumentative here but the excerpt you copied is not relevant. What they are discussing in that passage is who initially owns the copyright, not the automatic ownership. As it is initially owner by the author, you have to be either under a WFH agreement or situation (employed) for it to transfer without a formal agreement stating so. Here is the full title heading:

§ 201. Ownership of copyright

(a) Initial Ownership. — Copyright in a work protected under this title vests initially in the author or authors of the work. The authors of a joint work are coowners of copyright in the work.

(b) Works Made for Hire. — In the case of a work made for hire, the employer or other person for whom the work was prepared is considered the author for purposes of this title, and, unless the parties have expressly agreed otherwise in a written instrument signed by them, owns all of the rights comprised in the copyright.


If you are contracted under a WFH agreement, or you are an employee of the person commissioning the work, then it is indeed a WFH. Otherwise, in the US, the copyright almost ALWAYS belongs to the photographer and there is no magical formula that constitutes a WFH Agreement other then the above. I get hired all the time for commissioned work but the copyright still belongs to me. In no way would that transfer without a written document stating so.

Edited on Aug 10, 2008 at 02:36 PM


Aug 10, 2008 at 02:19 PM
RDKirk
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p.1 #17 · Copyright Problem


situation (employed) for it to transfer without a formal agreement stating so

I might add that even employment, per se, does not make it a work for hire situation. In particular, the creation of the intellectual property must also be part an integral part of the employment relationship.

Let's say I'm a starving poet paying my rent by bussing tables at a local restaurant. During a lull in bussing tables, I think of a poem about bussing tables and scribble it on a napkin. Later, I send that poem to a magazine, it gets published and becomes famous.

That restaurant does not own copyright to my poem in its advertisements, even though I created it "on their time" and even though I'm employed by them, even though I wrote it down on their materials, unless in some way the creation of intellectual property was actually part of the condition of my employment.

Aug 10, 2008 at 06:21 PM
butchM
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p.1 #18 · Copyright Problem


This is a classic case of small town (and some larger) papers profiting from the works of others. I worked as a full time PJ for over 24 years and saw this all the time. Now that I am a studio owner, I am faced with this situation quite a bit. In fact I am in the process of litigation over a similar situation where the paper use nearly 40 of my images and did not honor my written requirement submitted along with the images they requested for printing. The legal matters in my case, have nothing to do with copyright, but breach of contract. It is a classic case of the profiting (or at least trying to) from the works of others without regard for consideration of those providing the means to acquire the profit.

There can be, with the appropriate legal argument, cases where WFH can be interpreted to fit almost any situation. Successfully sustaining that argument in a court of law, is another matter entirely and in my opinion would not apply to the OP's situation based upon the information provided. In my estimation, unless his written agreement clearly stated forfeiture of copyright, it likely can not be interpreted as WFH.

Aug 10, 2008 at 06:35 PM
sspellman
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p.1 #19 · Copyright Problem


Hans-

This is a common situation for many photographers, and we are always in the difficult position to try provide a proffesional service without upseting clients and other potential clients. In this situation, I think it is reasonable to specify that the pictures provided to the the newspaper can be used for editorial use only. Use of the images in advertising should be for a set fee.

Before the CD is provided to the newspaper, I would specify that "last year you used my pictures in X ads that provided your business with additional revenue. This year there will be a $XX fee for the use of these pictures in advertising".

-Scott


Aug 11, 2008 at 02:07 PM
mdude85
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p.1 #20 · Copyright Problem


Well, it seems like most stuff has been covered in this thread, except for an original question as to whether you have "given up" your copyright by supplying a copy of the photos. Answer is no, you have not given up your copyright -- the copyright is yours unless you register the photo with the Copyright Office and then you fill out a reassignment form to your distributor, transferring the copyright thereto.

One more comment is that you have a lot of matters on your hands, but some of them don't concern you. For instance, I don't think the advertising issue concerns you, as while it uses your photos, I believe the paper has the burden to obtain the proper model release. You can only approach this from a copyright standpoint if your contract said the paper cannot use your photos for advertising purposes (which is a very grey area, as the publishing of every issue is per se a form of advertisement for the paper).

The captioning of the photos is also beyond your control unless in your contract you stated that you must get credit for the photos. If you didn't, then the paper can credit your photos however they like, including not crediting you at all.

In short the lesson learned is to have a carefully-written contract covering all your terms. It makes you a protected businessperson, not a jerk. Good luck!

Edited on Aug 11, 2008 at 02:33 PM


Aug 11, 2008 at 02:30 PM
Craig Gillette
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p.1 #21 · Copyright Problem


When reviewing the copyright laws at the Library of Congress site, go over the issues of registration, the time frames of registration, use, infringement, etc. It can impact the potential damages.

http://www.copyright.gov/

Aug 12, 2008 at 01:59 AM
lordarka
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p.1 #22 · Copyright Problem


II am pretty sure the OP owns the copyright, because it is highly unlikely that a work for hire relationship exists under the OP's stated facts. First, the relevant law; a work for hire must fall into one of the two subparagraphs appearing immediately below.

17 U.S.C. § 101
A "work made for hire" is--
(1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or
(2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as a contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a compilation, as an instructional text, as a test, as answer material for a test, or as an atlas, if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire. For the purpose of the foregoing sentence, a "supplementary work" is a work prepared for publication as a secondary adjunct to a work by another author for the purpose of introducing, concluding, illustrating, explaining, revising, commenting upon, or assisting in the use of the other work, such as forewords, afterwords, pictorial illustrations, maps, charts, tables, editorial notes, musical arrangements, answer material for tests, bibliographies, appendixes, and indexes, and an "instructional text" is a literary, pictorial, or graphic work prepared for publication and with the purpose of use in systematic instructional activities.
In determining whether any work is eligible to be considered a work made for hire under paragraph (2), neither the amendment contained in section 1011(d) of the Intellectual Property and Communications Omnibus Reform Act of 1999, as enacted by section 1000(a)(9) of Public Law 106-113, nor the deletion of the words added by that.


17 U.S.C. § 101(2) doesn't squarely apply to the OP's facts, and 17 U.S.C § 101(1) barely applies. Determining whether the OP was an employee working within scope of his duties relationship is a question of common law of agency. The factors governing this question was summarized by the Supreme Court as a multifactor test;

(1) the hiring party's right to control the manner and means by which the product is accomplished,
(2) the skill required;
(3) the source of the instrumentalities and tools;
(4) the location of the work;
(5) the duration of the relationship between the parties;
(6) whether the hiring party has the right to assign additional projects to the hired party;
(7) the extent of the hired party's discretion over when and how long to work;
(8) the method of payment;
(9) the hired party's role in hiring and paying assistants;
(10) whether the work is part of the regular business of the hiring party;
(11)whether the hiring party is in business;
(12) the provision of employee benefits;
(13) and the tax treatment of the hired party.

Community for Creative Non-Violence v. Ried 490 U.S. 730, 752 (1989). Consider the factors, and if most of them weigh in favor of an employee-employer relationship, you have a work-for-hire situation. Under these facts, few of the factors weighs in favor of the paper.

The foregoing is not submitted as counsel, as I am not a lawyer. (Yet). That said, the advice of many prior posters is sound; make sure you have a contract clearly indicating that you intend to retain your copyrights.

Hope that helps.

Arka C.






Edited on Aug 13, 2008 at 04:37 PM


Aug 13, 2008 at 04:32 PM
JustinThyme
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p.1 #23 · Copyright Problem


I would say that the OP owns the copyright but again definitions can be bent and the only way to settle this most of the time is in court.
Papers pull stunts like this all the time, not because they are stupid.
They count on one of two things.
1) The Photog doesnt know any better or will never see their further publications.
2) The photog will not have the financial means to go against the paper in court.

Happens all the time.

The only way I can see to avoid it in this case is to not provide them with the photos or sell them the copyright. I would notify the parents of the kids whose pictures were published without releases and let them know what their rights are. The paper is getting over on you and the families.

Edited on Aug 14, 2008 at 10:20 PM


Aug 14, 2008 at 10:19 PM
Craig Gillette
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p.1 #24 · Copyright Problem


Don't do this without a contract (with the fair), if too late, then prepare a notice to go with the pictures when you provide them to the fair and the kids, that you retain the copyright on the images and only the specific use (accompanying the award presentation, etc.) is authorized, and that no further distribution, copying or uses are permitted. Ask them to please contact you for information on licensing other uses or to arrange for additional copies or a licensing statement to allow them to make copies (if you want to do that).

You might choose to frame or border a little wider and include a copyright notice on the picture.

Aug 15, 2008 at 01:16 AM

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