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Archive 2008 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

Andre Labonte
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p.4 #1 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

panos.v wrote:
FD is the old Canon mount. Canon has FD, EF and EF-S. All incompatible with each other.

Nikon has the F-mount. FX is "full frame", DX is smaller sensors. There is a soup of letter like AF, AFD, AFS, AI, AIS, etc which is just lens features but in practice you can stick any lens made in the last 20 years on a D700 and it will work. You can put a DX lens on the D700 and it will still work, the camera crops it automatically.

And if you are interested in that soup of letters, here is a decoder ring. Be sure to look at the stuff in grey too.

http://www.bythom.com/lensacronyms.htm

Jul 17, 2008 at 07:29 AM

David Baldwin
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p.4 #2 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

Hello Panos,

" ..in practice you can stick any lens made in the last 20 years on a D700 and it will work"

True but allow me an aside.

Sad to say that Nikon used to pride themselves on universal lens compatibility. I was gutted to discover new Nikkors that don't have an aperture ring, and so are useless on my manual Nikon cameras.

Never thought I would see the day. Yesterday I sold off my beautiful FM2T and remaining AIS lens (rest in peace). Why keep older Nikon cameras now, can't put a 14-24 f2.8 on it.

I think current Nikon owners with DX glass can expect a similar fate in a couple of years.

Jul 17, 2008 at 01:46 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.4 #3 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

Jul 17, 2008 at 02:38 PM

poisonpill
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p.4 #4 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

David Baldwin wrote:
I think current Nikon owners with DX glass can expect a similar fate in a couple of years.

Why would DX go away? Nikon/Canon now have a great and profitable dual-tier setup where FX is high-end expensive stuff and DX is entry-level. It's not like DX is totally unusable and without it's benefits. There's the size/weight factor and the additional telephoto crop which some applications benefit from.

This is without mentioning that the vast majority of DSLR shooters have no idea the difference and barely master using a D40 -- to the point they don't even know how to remove the lens.

Jul 17, 2008 at 03:05 PM

dougjk
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p.4 #5 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

poisonpill wrote:
This is without mentioning that the vast majority of DSLR shooters have no idea the difference and barely master using a D40 -- to the point they don't even know how to remove the lens.

Wait a minute!

Why would I want to take the lens off? You can't take any pictures with the lens removed! You're pulling my leg, aren't you?

Jul 17, 2008 at 03:32 PM

Avi B
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p.4 #6 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

David Baldwin wrote:
Hello Panos,

" ..in practice you can stick any lens made in the last 20 years on a D700 and it will work"

True but allow me an aside.

Sad to say that Nikon used to pride themselves on universal lens compatibility. I was gutted to discover new Nikkors that don't have an aperture ring, and so are useless on my manual Nikon cameras.

Never thought I would see the day. Yesterday I sold off my beautiful FM2T and remaining AIS lens (rest in peace). Why keep older Nikon cameras now, can't put a 14-24 f2.8 on it.

I think current Nikon owners...Show more →

You can use G lenses on some film bodies, although not the FM2T. And you can use AIS lenses on any Nikon pro DSLR body (D1 bodies/D2 bodies/D200/D3/D300/D700) and it will work.

Edited on Jul 17, 2008 at 03:36 PM

Jul 17, 2008 at 03:36 PM

panos.v
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p.4 #7 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

David Baldwin wrote:
Why keep older Nikon cameras now, can't put a 14-24 f2.8 on it.

I think current Nikon owners with DX glass can expect a similar fate in a couple of years.

Well, the idea is that the newer bodies can use the older lenses, not the newer lenses to be used on older cameras. The camera is the one that is being updated all the time (at least compared to lenses) but retains compatibility with older lenses.

As for DX, it might go from high-end bodies but I think it will be around for quite a long time as there is no need for entry-level consumers to go FX. DX will always be cheaper than FX and kit lenses like the 18-55 will provide more than enough performance for a fraction of the cost and a very small size. And it also has it's own niche in wildlife photography where it gives you more pixel density and virtual reach (and let's not get into the crop vs focal length stuff now).

Jul 17, 2008 at 03:47 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.4 #8 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

panos.v wrote:
Well, the idea is that the newer bodies can use the older lenses, not the newer lenses to be used on older cameras. The camera is the one that is being updated all the time (at least compared to lenses) but retains compatibility with older lenses.

As for DX, it might go from high-end bodies but I think it will be around for quite a long time as there is no need for entry-level consumers to go FX. DX will always be cheaper than FX and kit lenses like the 18-55 will provide more than enough performance for a fraction of...Show more →

Well put!

Jul 17, 2008 at 05:33 PM

r_o_b_s_o_n
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p.4 #9 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

Well.....

I now hope that we DON'T see a 50mm f1.2 AF-S..... I just ordered an AI-S today..... YES they are apparently STILL available new....

Jul 17, 2008 at 06:03 PM

r_o_b_s_o_n
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p.4 #10 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

Andre Labonte wrote:
It took 20 years for that to happen. I don't expect any DSLR to last 20 years. So let's assume DX has a 20 year life span ... I have 12 more years left on DX format!

Besides, I think Nikon sees the advantage of two formats as is evident by the DX crop mode. DX will be around a long time.

Oh, that old AIS glass will work on the higher end DSLRs ... it may need to be modified (i.e. CPU chip added) but they will still work.

Canon, who has been the dominant force in DSLR's and especially noted for their full frame bodies, has yet to abandon their crop bodies... what's more... they have 2 different crops... 1.3x and 1.6x I agree whole heartedly that full frame, or FX is mearly just an OPTION, and DX will remain as a valid format for years to come...

Jul 17, 2008 at 06:08 PM

r_o_b_s_o_n
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p.4 #11 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

David Baldwin wrote:
Hello Panos,

" ..in practice you can stick any lens made in the last 20 years on a D700 and it will work"

True but allow me an aside.

Sad to say that Nikon used to pride themselves on universal lens compatibility. I was gutted to discover new Nikkors that don't have an aperture ring, and so are useless on my manual Nikon cameras.

Never thought I would see the day. Yesterday I sold off my beautiful FM2T and remaining AIS lens (rest in peace). Why keep older Nikon cameras now, can't put a 14-24 f2.8 on it.

I think current Nikon owners...Show more →

well.... you never used a 14-24 on your FM2T before... why would you need to now? I personally would LOVE an FM2T... it's a different tool all together... and has not been rendered useless by the advent of G-type nikkors.... if you REALLY want to use the G-type lenses on film... pick up an F100 or F5.... they're practically being given away... I on the other hand will always enjoy shooting with my FE and Ai Nikkors... like I said in a post above... I just ordered a BRAND NEW 50mm f1.2, which I look forward to using on my FE, F5, D70 and D700...

Jul 17, 2008 at 06:12 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.4 #12 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

r_o_b_s_o_n wrote:
Canon, who has been the dominant force in DSLR's and especially noted for their full frame bodies, has yet to abandon their crop bodies... what's more... they have 2 different crops... 1.3x and 1.6x I agree whole heartedly that full frame, or FX is mearly just an OPTION, and DX will remain as a valid format for years to come...

Some excellent points ... in fact I read an article somewhere that one porofessional photog argues that FX is not needed and the reach, size, weight and cost advantages will result in DX being the winner ... I wish I could find that article again.

Jul 18, 2008 at 06:29 AM

plnelson
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p.4 #13 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

David Baldwin wrote:
I think current Nikon owners with DX glass can expect a similar fate in a couple of years.

DX sensors will always be cheaper than FX ones so it probably won't go away anytime soon. Although most likely DX bodies will soon be relegated to entry-level quality and features (e.g., D40) - the pro's and serious amateurs will all want FX.

Jul 18, 2008 at 07:51 AM

lou f
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p.4 #14 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

gvg45 wrote:
Yea, I read that. He states a possibility of a few new f/1.4 primes. Any guess which focal length? 35, 85...?maybe 24?

hopefully to match the PC lenses they just introduced, 24/ 50 (preferably 45) and 85.

Jul 18, 2008 at 08:11 AM

Andre Labonte
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p.4 #15 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

plnelson wrote:
DX sensors will always be cheaper than FX ones so it probably won't go away anytime soon. Although most likely DX bodies will soon be relegated to entry-level quality and features (e.g., D40) - the pro's and serious amateurs will all want FX.

Do they?

I'm a serious ameture considering going part-time pro and I don't want FX. There are threads on this board as I type this where pros are speaking about wanting both formats (DX and FX) because they like the benefits that each format provides (DX provides reach and cost savings in a backup). As it currently stands, FX privdes ONE and only ONE advantage: high ISO performance. If a D3X ever comes out, it will provide a resolution advantage that is not needed even by most pros and at a HUGE cost premium. DX will always have the cost benefit and likely retain it pixel density advantage as well. There will be pros and most especially avid ametures who will want DX for those reasons.

Jul 18, 2008 at 08:36 AM

David Baldwin
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p.4 #16 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

Hello Makten,

"Was it really gorgeous? From what I've seen, it was pretty soft wide open. And why have fast lenses if not to shoot wide open?"

Compare the 28mm f1.4 with a fast Sigma wide at full aperture, or even the excellent Canon 24L f1.4 and you will realize how very special the Nikkor was.

I've had the Nikkor 28mm f1.4 as my main lens since 1996, never ever stopped it down so I don't know how good it was at f2, 2.8 etc, care even less), for low light shooters it was a lens in a million (works a treat on my Canon now ;-)

Nikon are bloody good at making fast wides, pity they don't make any!

All at f1.4 with the Nikkor 28:

http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la06.html
http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la05.html
http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la10.html
http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la02.html
http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la14.html
http://www.nightfolio.co.uk/subpages/la07.html

Come on Nikon, start making some decent Noct type lenses. Not all of us are happy to settle for f2.8 zooms. Professional systems require professional lenses, and at present Canon offer a more comprehensive choice (even though the Nikkor 12-24 f2.8 is admittedly very special too).

At present Canon have the 24mm f1.4L, the 28mm f1.8. What do Nikon offer?, a 35mm f2. Its depressing.

Jul 18, 2008 at 10:33 AM

David Baldwin
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p.4 #17 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

Hello Andre,

Well guys, I didn't mean to spark off a DX/FX debate

"As it currently stands, FX privdes ONE and only ONE advantage: high ISO performance."

Well, that's not all. I freely concede that for wildlife and telephoto use DX is advantageous. However, even though telephotos love DX sadly wide lenses don't. If Nikon really are commited to DX then I hope they will bring out some fast, wide lenses specially designed for that format.

If I am honest I am biased in favour of FX because I like low noise and want a wide range of professional (wide) lenses. Canon do it for FX (24 f1.4L, 28 f1.8, 35 f1.4L), lets see if Nikon follow suit (for EITHER DX or FX).

I think that the marketing behind the photographic industry is a bit like the music industry. They sold us LPs, then tapes, then CDs, now they want to migrate us all to MP3. In the photographic industry they sold us film, then DX, and I suspect the marketing pressure will be to encourage us to buy FX.

Could be wrong of course. If I am then the hallmark that proves me wrong will be Nikon and Canon bringing out more specialized DX glass, like perspective control, fast primes, wide primes. I am waiting.

Jul 18, 2008 at 12:36 PM

RyanFlynn
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p.4 #18 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

FX also provides a shallower DOF, and the advantage of having your lenses actual be the perspective they were intended to have. To me, those are bigger advantages than high ISO performance.

Jul 18, 2008 at 12:55 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.4 #19 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

RyanFlynn wrote:
FX also provides a shallower DOF, and the advantage of having your lenses actual be the perspective they were intended to have. To me, those are bigger advantages than high ISO performance.

The DOF issue is a trade-off, NOT and advantage per say. If you want shallow DOF for a given FOV, you do not have to use as wide an aperture with FX. But, if you want lots of DOF, DX is the easier format to use.

Jul 18, 2008 at 01:09 PM

Andre Labonte
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p.4 #20 · Nikon -- Enough with bodies --- LENSES

David Baldwin wrote:
Hello Andre,

Well guys, I didn't mean to spark off a DX/FX debate

"As it currently stands, FX privdes ONE and only ONE advantage: high ISO performance."

Well, that's not all. I freely concede that for wildlife and telephoto use DX is advantageous. However, even though telephotos love DX sadly wide lenses don't. If Nikon really are commited to DX then I hope they will bring out some fast, wide lenses specially designed for that format.

If I am honest I am biased in favour of FX because I like low noise and want a wide range of professional (wide) lenses. Canon...Show more →

If you need FOV wider than 18mm FX equivalent, then yes, you need to use FX. By the same token, if you want more reach with lighter glass or need reach beyond 600 f/4, then you need to use DX (or a TC if you can afford the loss of stops). Granted with DX there is only one wide lens, the 12-24, but people also use the 14-24 and you can't get better than that on either format. Granted, for some people 21mm FOV is not wide, but for most it is plenty. I suspect more people want reach than want wide, and many pro shooters want both. AND there is always a market for 95% of the performance at less than 50% of the cost. For those reasons, DX will survive for a long time.

Either way, I STILL WANT SOME FAST PRIMES!!!

A 55mm f/1.2 on DX or an 85mm f/1.2 on FX. Both with AFS, VR is optional.

Edited on Jul 18, 2008 at 01:16 PM

Jul 18, 2008 at 01:16 PM

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