Register · Software · Search · Image Upload · Buy & Sell · Reviews · Hosting

Moderated by: guardian
Username   Password

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules
FM Forums | PRO digital corner | Join Image Upload
1 2
3
4 5 end
Go to previous topic Go to next topic
Jonathan Knight
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.3 #1 · PC or Mac????


This thing is STILL going?

Geez, guys!!! I had my two cents, some will agree with it, others won't. It's just a computer, no need to get in a heated verbal debate on a message board about it!!

Jul 12, 2008 at 09:59 PM
mkonik
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.3 #2 · PC or Mac????


Get a Mac Pro Tower over an iMac, its a world of difference, of course so is the cost but well worth it. If you have the need to run Windows just get Boot Camp, Parallels or Fusion. Ironically, My Mac is still my fastest Windows machine. If you are comfortable building out PC hardware the iMac can be a little frustrating since you only really have easy access to the RAM. Pretty much anything else requires you to separate the housing and this is a royal pain. You might also be interested in something like the EFiX dongle which hopefully will be shipping later this year.

Jul 12, 2008 at 11:03 PM
David Baldwin
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.3 #3 · PC or Mac????


jm

I would recommend that you stay with the platform you understand best, whichever it is. The practical differences between Mac and PC are now vanishingly small. Macs look prettier, and cost alot more IMHO. Yes, you have to run virus software on PCs, but there again this is easy and often free. You can do identical photo editing on both platforms. Nothing much to get worked up about.

Last year I decided to buy a laptop to work on digital images on the road. I bought a Dell laptop, 2 gigs of RAM etc, works a treat. Cost me £250. You can't even buy the box a Mac comes in for that kind of money.

The industry bias towards Mac is largely based on historical factors, in the 1990's Windows machines used to require an expensive graphics card as an extra, whereas Macs came with good cards built in. This advantage is long gone, in fact the Windows graphics cards industry is cutting edge technology.

I'm not in love with Bill Gate's crowd, but I see no reason for the rampant snobbery in favour of Mac many of its users seem to possess. Heck, Macs can even use proper mice these days

Flame suit on!


Jul 12, 2008 at 11:21 PM
andrew81
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #4 · PC or Mac????


Instead of you'll arguing about the platform differences, about about the actual physicality of each system.
I love my Powerbook laptop and I love OSX a great deal more than Windows. HOWEVER I have remained with a Windows system for my office because I can add/removes HDD's with ease. Very difficult with an iMac and a Power Mac is out of my price range.

I will be getting a new Intel Mac at the end of the year where I can claim it on tax

Jul 13, 2008 at 05:22 AM
jerryrock
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #5 · PC or Mac????


andrew81 wrote:
Instead of you'll arguing about the platform differences, about about the actual physicality of each system.
I love my Powerbook laptop and I love OSX a great deal more than Windows. HOWEVER I have remained with a Windows system for my office because I can add/removes HDD's with ease. Very difficult with an iMac and a Power Mac is out of my price range.

I will be getting a new Intel Mac at the end of the year where I can claim it on tax


Just a note: Apple no longer produces the Power Mac.

The MacPro has four removable drive bays that side in with no additional connections needed.

Jul 13, 2008 at 03:32 PM
andrew81
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #6 · PC or Mac????


opps sorry, I did mean Mac Pro but got confused.

Jul 13, 2008 at 08:39 PM
mdude85
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #7 · PC or Mac????


jerryrock wrote:

The MacPro has four removable drive bays that side in with no additional connections needed.


Yes, but andrew81 was specifically referring to the iMac, not the Mac Pro.




Jul 14, 2008 at 03:38 PM
mdude85
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #8 · PC or Mac????


butchM wrote:
I remember my girl friend making the statement, "Well, there are some things you can't do on a Mac," I responded, "What," ... she didn't have an answer ... sure there are those apps that are proprietary on one platform or the other, but in the end ... nobody cares.



One thing that can be done with a Windows (Vista) machine that cannot be done with any Mac is native voice dictation for accessibility purposes. This includes the ability to control the cursor with voice input.

Jul 14, 2008 at 03:44 PM
mdude85
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #9 · PC or Mac????


Ben Horne wrote:

I am always very careful not to make absolute statements. Notice how I said the world "almost" in point #1, and I said "usually" in #2. I did not make any absolute statements, which leaves room for the exceptions to the rule. There are always exceptions to the rule.

You replied by saying that there is "absolutely no truth to these statements." Thus, you have used an absolute --- and very literally so. When such statements are made, it typically does not contribute to the conversation in a beneficial way.

Be very careful how you use your words. I have learned in life to be cautious of people who use absolute statements, and take their opinions as a grain of salt.


Yes, I did absolutely refute the comment that most vocal PC users have never used a PC. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with making an absolute statement. It is not the statement being absolute that does not contribute to beneficial conversation, but rather the content of the statement itself regardless of absoluteness.



I have used PCs for most of my experience using computers, but I have switched to Mac about 5 years ago. According to your own words, I must not exist because there is absolutely no truth to my statements.



No, those are according to your own words, not mine. I never said people don't switch to Mac from PC. I said that there is no truth to the statement that vocal PC users rarely have used Macs. The two ideas don't have anything to do with one another.

Regardless, the main thrust of my original comment, which does not require reading between the lines of my post to find supposed logical fallacy, is that most NON-vocal PC users have rarely used a Mac and thus have no opinion on the matter either way. But you weren't talking about those users. You specifically mentioned vocal PC users. Most vocal PC users are so-named "power users" and they generally have used other OSs including Mac. They use computers often, many for work purposes, and further quite a few of them are developers themselves. They are vocal proponents of Windows systems because they have first-hand experience with alternative OSs such as Mac and they have chosen Windows for specific reasons.

Edited on Jul 14, 2008 at 03:57 PM


Jul 14, 2008 at 03:53 PM
Andrew Gough
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #10 · PC or Mac????


lordarka wrote:
mDude: your belief that the "cache[t]" [sp] in owning a Mac lies in the hardware is the kind of statement that leads people like Ben to question the general depth of your platform knowledge. Yours is a common refrain among hardware-centered users, who often display a real insensitivity to poorly designed software. This is perhaps understandable, since software design isn't something that neatly fits onto a spec-sheet.

The measure of good software is its efficient use of system resources, stability, and its ability to accomodate a universe of user preferences. Attention to these criteria is clearly lacking in the Windows world; while the Mac is not an absolute antidote, it is a lot easier to find better software in the Mac world. I have become a heavy user of elegantly designed Mac shareware for my text and document management needs. (See shareware software developed by the Omni Group, or independent gems like Scrivener, to get a sense of what I'm talking about).

I also find that MacOS, for all of its flaws, manages system resources more efficiently, and also gives me window management tools that complement my workflow as I need them. Expose and Spaces are not mere graphical flourishes or "eye candy," but rather are substantively useful information management tools that have no real equivalent in an XP or Vista world.

Like many computer users, I live in MS and Mac universes coextensively; my Mac has the unique distinction of being the only platform that may lawfully run both OS'es at the same time. Windows proficiency is necessary in the professional world I inhabit. That said, I keep a Mac on my desk when I have to do really complex research or document generation, because the software available on that platform makes management of many windows, sources, and document sections that much easier. There are no real Windows equivalents. These differences in operation overflow into visual creation as well. I prefer to do my illustration, 3D, and photography work on a Mac because I've grown accustomed to the workflow benefits it provides. I've also grown accustomed to being able to run Windows on those rare occasions where I absolutely need to do things in Windows. (i.e learning on my "Mudbox" demo). With no real performance penalty on the hardware side, I see little reason to deny myself the flexibility of using MacOS.

ghouston13 wrote:If Mac/Apple were so great, why don't they just build a version for PC users and make money off of the (apparently) millions wanting to jump ship from Windows?

You know the answer to your own question quite well. There is a reason, related to profit margins, that Apple likes to control the hardware. Building a stable and reliable OS to accommodate every possible hardware configuration, including those using poorly designed hardware, is a monumental task that even a dedicated software behemoth like Microsoft hasn't been able to solve. Apple's model has been to limit the hardware to ensure stability in the software. Do I think that OSX could be designed to embrace a wider range of hardware, while still retaining its stability? Yes! But that would be a very bad business decision for Apple; the company would devote massive resources to expanding MacOS's hardware umbrella while absolutely abolishing Apple's ability to profit from its hardware configurations. And it would do so at tremendous risk to its reputation as a purveyor of a seamless computing "experience" that relies on both hardware and software.

For most people, interaction with a computer involves one or two input devices, a monitor, and software. The software experience defines how well that interaction goes. I don't need multiple ethernet cards in my computer, nor do I need SLI with GeForce Boost to increase my Doom3 frag rates to stratospheric levels. I'm a productivity user with specific hardware demands; the Mac hardware universe, with its selection of strong NVIDIA cards and state-of-the-art Intel CPU architectures, fills those needs. I am willing to accept limits in the potentiality of my hardware if my software experience improves as a result. I am especially open to such restriction when it is modest, and the base hardware powerful enough to preclude the immediate need to upgrade.

As a former builder of PC desktops (Intel BX, AMD Socket 939, Intel Socket D), I really can't say I miss the days where I felt compelled to open up my system, inhale dust, and snap components in and out of the slots to optimize performance.

Arka C.


Thanks for a reasoned response. As someone who is about to switch to Mac and will run both enviroments for the forseeable future, I have a couple of questions regarding document management - if you have the time.

Will the Omni Group Outliner support pdf, word, and excel formats? I am currently using Paperport on the PC for my document management and I am very happy with the software, do you know of a similar program for the Mac?

thanks

Andrew


Jul 14, 2008 at 04:36 PM
lendur2
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.3 #11 · PC or Mac????


That comes out to be a highly personal choice. I think you see that with all the replies to this thread. I suggest VM Fusion if you wish to go to the mac; for $70 it will play Windows XP or Vista in a window of the Tiger or Leopard OS. You can drag and drop between programs or files running on the separate OSes. You can access files of the opposite OS (at least OS-X can access the Windows files).

Check with your program's provider. In many cases the license can be switched to the other OS at no charge. In many cases at a low charge. You have to stack that against the cost of Windows (and maybe Parallels or Fusion). In some cases you can get by with Crossover Mac. Still rough, but lots cheaper than the other recourses. A free 30-day trial is offered.

Lots of freeware from Source Forge. GIMP has high ratings as compared to Photoshop. Learning curve? Well, I guess you have to pay something somewhere along the line. Just what and where seems to be your choice.

If you're happy with Windows, why not stay with it? But if not, think about Linux. If that doesn't "grab" you, now you have your path to Mac OS which is also good. Do buy a book (I bought Pogue's Missing Manual and it sure eased my jump from OS-9 to Tiger).

Jul 14, 2008 at 07:23 PM
ICQ
BluePixel
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #12 · PC or Mac????


nikon or canon?
Of course Nikon.

Jul 14, 2008 at 09:02 PM
BluePixel
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #13 · PC or Mac????




Jul 14, 2008 at 09:02 PM
BluePixel
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #14 · PC or Mac????




Jul 14, 2008 at 09:03 PM
sboerup
Offline
Buy and Sell: On
p.3 #15 · PC or Mac????


Anyone know of a good CRM for Mac? Thats one thing I'm looking for, but they don't have it.

As far as my PC, it never crashes. I never have problems with it. It is just as fast as an equally configured Mac. Of course a Mac Pro with 8 core 2.4ghz processors will be much faster than most PCs, because people don't spend that much on a PC.

Price comparison, they are equal. Mac Pros just use the VERY high end stuff.

Jul 15, 2008 at 03:09 AM
lordarka
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #16 · PC or Mac????


Andrew Gough wrote:
Thanks for a reasoned response. As someone who is about to switch to Mac and will run both enviroments for the forseeable future, I have a couple of questions regarding document management - if you have the time.

Will the Omni Group Outliner support pdf, word, and excel formats? I am currently using Paperport on the PC for my document management and I am very happy with the software, do you know of a similar program for the Mac?

thanks

Andrew


It supports export to Word, as HTML. Word in turn supports .PDF and in some cases .XLS. Honestly I never tried it. I use Omni-outliner for note-taking in classes and client/witness meetings; I usually keep it in outline format, and generate memoranda or deeper outlines by exporting to HTML openable in Word. I don't think you can import .PDF, XLS, or .DOC files in Omnioutliner. My preferred tool for document generation of that sort is Scrivener, which isn't an Omni product. I also use Omnigraffle for figures and tables, as I think the the graphics and table implementations are just amazing.

For my graphics work, it's all Photoshop and Painter, though I am on the lookout for good shareware options in this area as well.

Arka C.


Jul 15, 2008 at 05:37 AM
Andrew Gough
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #17 · PC or Mac????


lordarka wrote:
Andrew Gough wrote:
Thanks for a reasoned response. As someone who is about to switch to Mac and will run both enviroments for the forseeable future, I have a couple of questions regarding document management - if you have the time.

Will the Omni Group Outliner support pdf, word, and excel formats? I am currently using Paperport on the PC for my document management and I am very happy with the software, do you know of a similar program for the Mac?

thanks

Andrew


It supports export to Word, as HTML. Word in turn supports .PDF and in some cases .XLS. Honestly I never tried it. I use Omni-outliner for note-taking in classes and client/witness meetings; I usually keep it in outline format, and generate memoranda or deeper outlines by exporting to HTML openable in Word. I don't think you can import .PDF, XLS, or .DOC files in Omnioutliner. My preferred tool for document generation of that sort is Scrivener, which isn't an Omni product. I also use Omnigraffle for figures and tables, as I think the the graphics and table implementations are just amazing.

For my graphics work, it's all Photoshop and Painter, though I am on the lookout for good shareware options in this area as well.

Arka C.


Thanks for the reply, it looks like Yep & Leap are the products for me, as most of my stuff is in pdf format.

http://www.thekip.com/index.html

Cheers

Andrew


Jul 15, 2008 at 01:54 PM
sino408
Offline
Buy and Sell: On
p.3 #18 · PC or Mac????


I have a self-built PC and a MacBook. As long as both monitors are calibrated then either hardware can be used. All that talk about hardware being built better - they are all the same. Most Macs these days run on a Core 2 Duo processor, SODIMM ram, and harddrive. How is that different from the PCs? As long as you use PS3 and software that's available to both OS then there is really no difference.

Jul 15, 2008 at 07:48 PM
mdude85
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #19 · PC or Mac????


sino408 wrote:
I have a self-built PC and a MacBook. As long as both monitors are calibrated then either hardware can be used. All that talk about hardware being built better - they are all the same. Most Macs these days run on a Core 2 Duo processor, SODIMM ram, and harddrive. How is that different from the PCs? As long as you use PS3 and software that's available to both OS then there is really no difference.


It's not really different at all, as most Mac hardware is farmed out to companies like Sony and ASUS. One thing that can be different, though, are the chasses used to construct the systems. For instance most Dell and HP computers, especially laptops, are constructed on plastic frames to reduce weight, whereas Macbook Pros have historically been constructed on aluminum or alloy frames. The metal construction makes them not only feel sturdier but makes them more durable for long term use.

Same basic idea goes for cameras.




Edited on Jul 16, 2008 at 06:06 PM


Jul 16, 2008 at 06:05 PM
sino408
Offline
Buy and Sell: On
p.3 #20 · PC or Mac????


mdude85 wrote:
sino408 wrote:
I have a self-built PC and a MacBook. As long as both monitors are calibrated then either hardware can be used. All that talk about hardware being built better - they are all the same. Most Macs these days run on a Core 2 Duo processor, SODIMM ram, and harddrive. How is that different from the PCs? As long as you use PS3 and software that's available to both OS then there is really no difference.


It's not really different at all, as most Mac hardware is farmed out to companies like Sony and ASUS. One thing that can be different, though, are the chasses used to construct the systems. For instance most Dell and HP computers, especially laptops, are constructed on plastic frames to reduce weight, whereas Macbook Pros have historically been constructed on aluminum or alloy frames. The metal construction makes them not only feel sturdier but makes them more durable for long term use.

Same basic idea goes for cameras.




My MacBook is plastic while virtually every PC laptop manufacturer has a magnesium alloy model.


Edited on Jul 16, 2008 at 09:29 PM


Jul 16, 2008 at 09:28 PM
zuiu
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.3 #21 · PC or Mac????


Being a systems analyst, I can't comment on Macs as I've never used them.

However:

To say "Macs don't get virii" "Vista is a crap shoot"

Is wrong.


Mac's don't have virii because malicious people who make virii want the most for their dollar. Therefore they make virii for PC's. If everyone bought a mac, trust me, you'd have virii problems quickly.

Complaints about Vista. I'll say this to anyone who says Vista is a crap shoot, whether you're pro-PC, pro-Mac, or don't give a hoot. You get out of Vista/XP what you put into Vista/XP. If you don't know what you're doing, it will suck and you will jack it up with downloads, spyware, malware.

If you know what you're doing, Vista/XP will give you no problems and will run smoothly.

For all intensive purposes, there's little difference between Macs and PC's these days. You can Windows apps on both. Neither are *very* proprietary. That's the bottom line.

However I have noticed with Mac users is they tend to have the same smugness that Hybrid owners have. A lot of them think they are superior simply because they have a Mac. So if anything, I like Macs, but a lot of their fans are irritating.

Carry on.

Jul 16, 2008 at 10:06 PM
martines34
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.3 #22 · PC or Mac????


I don't know where you are located.

In the event that you live within access of an Apple store then may I suggest that you visit the store and see if they offer the 1 hour a week tutorials on the Mac. I believe that the coast is $ 100.00 for 52 classes in the store. You arrange the time with them.

I have a friend who was a died in the wool PC user and had her business on Quickbooks. She didn't want to hear a thing about anything but a PC. Of course she had her share of visitations by the PC guru's to constantly bale her out of a mess.

Finally she went to the classes and to make a long story short she now has an iMac and is happy as a clam.

End of story.

Jul 16, 2008 at 10:22 PM
martines34
Offline
Image Upload: Off
p.3 #23 · PC or Mac????


I don't know where you are located.

In the event that you live within access of an Apple store then may I suggest that you visit the store and see if they offer the 1 hour a week tutorials on the Mac. I believe that the coast is $ 100.00 for 52 classes in the store. You arrange the time with them.

I have a friend who was a died in the wool PC user and had her business on Quickbooks. She didn't want to hear a thing about anything but a PC. Of course she had her share of visitations by the PC guru's to constantly bale her out of a mess.

Finally she went to the classes and to make a long story short she now has an iMac and is happy as a clam.

End of story.

Jul 16, 2008 at 10:22 PM
mdude85
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #24 · PC or Mac????


sino408 wrote:

My MacBook is plastic while virtually every PC laptop manufacturer has a magnesium alloy model.


The very popular Dell Latitude and Precision laptop models have a full magnesium alloy chasses while the Dell XPS and Vostro laptops have plastic chasses.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~tab=2

I never said Macbook have metal chasses, I said Macbook Pro has them. Additionally, while a good portion of chasses in laptops have magnesium alloy, many are sticking to plastics. And with rising prices on metal commodities, you will see some major manufacturers either raising prices or moving back to rigid plastic (perhaps made from derivatives of HDPE)

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080521PD212.html



Jul 16, 2008 at 10:24 PM
mdude85
Offline
Image Upload: On
p.3 #25 · PC or Mac????


zuiu wrote:

If you know what you're doing, Vista/XP will give you no problems and will run smoothly.



Either people who know what they're doing or have no idea what they're doing and only use 10% of Windows OS will have no problems and will run smoothly. It's that pesky percentage of users who "sort of know" what they are doing and will attempt to make strange registry edits, download shareware without virus protection, etc etc and for them, XP/Vista will give them many problems.


Jul 16, 2008 at 10:30 PM

FM Forums | PRO digital corner | Join Image Upload
1 2
3
4 5 end
  Go to previous topic Go to next topic

You are not logged in. Login or Register

  Username   Password  
Lost password?