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Archive 2008 · PC or Mac????

  
 
rodeostore
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p.3 #1 · PC or Mac????


I thought all real computer people used Linux and open source software and that Mac's were for the stinking rich and Windows was for the corporate rats?

Windows and Mac's are both fine for normal users. It's a matter of taste, kind of like Burger King vs. McDonald's.



Jul 11, 2008 at 04:56 PM
400d
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p.3 #2 · PC or Mac????


rodeostore wrote:
I thought all real computer people used Linux and open source software and that Mac's were for the stinking rich and Windows was for the corporate rats?

Windows and Mac's are both fine for normal users. It's a matter of taste, kind of like Burger King vs. McDonald's.

+1!
PC have always worked for me, at least for the last 15 years; I always like understanding how things work beneath the surface. There's a very common fallacy: PC = Windows
Yes, MS dominates the PC market for almost two decades, but by no means they are equal.

Oh, I always find this mesmeric:


Edited on Jul 11, 2008 at 06:11 PM



Jul 11, 2008 at 06:03 PM
Ben Horne
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p.3 #3 · PC or Mac????


mdude85 wrote:
There's absolutely no truth to these statements -- if anything, vocal supporters of Windows (PC is an archaic way to denote a Windows computer) have tended to use a variety of systems including Mac, Windows, and perhaps an open source option such as Linux.

People who are NOT vocal supporters of either system have tended to use Windows computers exclusively.



I am always very careful not to make absolute statements. Notice how I said the world "almost" in point #1, and I said "usually" in #2. I did not make any absolute statements, which leaves room for the exceptions to the rule. There are always exceptions to the rule.

You replied by saying that there is "absolutely no truth to these statements." Thus, you have used an absolute --- and very literally so. When such statements are made, it typically does not contribute to the conversation in a beneficial way.

I have used PCs for most of my experience using computers, but I have switched to Mac about 5 years ago. According to your own words, I must not exist because there is absolutely no truth to my statements.

Be very careful how you use your words. I have learned in life to be cautious of people who use absolute statements, and take their opinions as a grain of salt.



Jul 11, 2008 at 06:17 PM
Arka
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p.3 #4 · PC or Mac????


tived wrote:
Sure you may be expected to know how to use both a Mac or a PC base computer, but that by no means mean that you have to work on either. I guess if you are good enough, they will have to buy you the toys that you choose to work on, after all it is about the outcome, not the tool.


That's a truism. The importance of outcome or product has no bearing on the quality of tools used to generate the product.

...but you still don't have to use a Mac to make good artistic work on a computer!

I don't think Jerry or anyone else here ever said that a Mac is a prerequisite to making great art. What Jerry did say is that Mac proficiency is essential in the art business, where Macs predominate.

On the brighter side, if you like Mac, by all means use one. Too often people who have this too one-sided Mac view that Mac's are the only way. Have never really used an equal PC.

Nonsense. Most Mac users today have used or still use Windows PCs at work; in fact, most "switchers" are inspired to do so after using relatively modern Windows computers.

Apple only have to cater for a small hardware market, one which they almost dictate themselves, for better and for worse. Windows have to cater for a much greater market, with an almost endless combinations of components - this freedom is also their downfall.

While this fact is well understood, the hardware limitations Mac users face are not as onerous as most Windows system users believe. I also don't believe that most photographers and artists, for whom computers are a means rather than an end, lie awake at night wondering if the latest in boutique hardware technologies will function on their primary computers. "Choice" is great if you leverage it, but the majority of Windows users do not explore the infinity of hardware choices available to them. Gamers might, of course, but they are a performance-oriented minority.

Indeed, among those who like to upgrade computers, I see more people keeping their "expensive" Macs for five years or more, upgrading CPUs, RAM and video along the way.

Just the same, Mac users reap certain benefits from a limited hardware subset, though I will admit that, given the challenges it faces, Microsoft has done an admirable job of building a stable operating system. Secure and ergonomic? Well those are entirely different challenges where Microsoft continually fails to meet the mark...

Any idiot can use a Mac, any idiot drive an automatic car...now apart from the shortcut keys what is the difference between using Photoshop on a mac or a pc? How does using Photoshop or illustrator or Maya or Autocad differ from one OS to another?

Any idiot can use a Windows machine too, but not everyone appreciates the UI of either Mac or Windows systems with much depth. In response to your question, I am a habitual Expose and Spaces (virtual desktop) user, and both go a long way toward easing the management of multiple content-rich application windows. To my knowledge, there is no true Windows equivalent of these window and desktop management features.

But if you equip your computer to suit your needs, well, then you the user is the limiting factor, not the hardware or software.

This statement exemplifies most Windows' users incredible tolerance for poor ergonomics and shoddy software interface design. I can get more work done on Macs because of the software design, not in spite of it. Quite often, people who say that software makes no difference haven't used a Mac very deeply, and certainly haven't explored the wonder that is Mac Shareware. The Mac Shareware community never ceases to amaze me; smalltime developers, catering to a community that values stability and usability, can routinely create software gems that elude companies having billions of dollars in development budgets. I include Apple in this criticism, as its latest apps are no stranger to bloat and overly complex design.

I use Windows and Apple systems at a fairly advanced user (not administrator) level, and I can say quite honestly that the software options and standards on MacOS facilitate productivity. To blame productivity limits on the user completely ignores the value of intelligent software design. As artists and knowledge workers, we use our computers to complete very complex tasks; software design can either facilitiate or hinder the rapid completion of such tasks. If you believe that your productivity begins and ends with the RAM, GHz, and GBs in your computer, you underestimate the value of sensible and efficient user interfaces.

If this argument was about the workflow differences between 3D Studio v.4 in DOS 6.22 and Lightwave v. 7.5 in Windows, I somehow doubt you would resort to the "user and hardware is everything" argument.

Arka C.



Jul 11, 2008 at 06:18 PM
400d
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p.3 #5 · PC or Mac????


jmphotography wrote:
I am currently a PC guy for my photography business. I build my own PC's. Currently have a Core2Duo 6700 with 4g of ram. I am mostly doing photoshop CS3 and some business apps like Quickbooks pro. I am thinking of going to an imac. Can anyone share any experiences, either positive or negative? I guess my biggest drawback is the investment in software that I currently own in PC.
Thanks

Doesn't CS3 works perfectly on your PC? Not fast enough? I am set with the e6850 with 4gb DDR2 800 running CS3, of course it can be better with e8500 and a set of RAID.

Edited on Jul 11, 2008 at 06:33 PM



Jul 11, 2008 at 06:32 PM
butchM
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p.3 #6 · PC or Mac????


I remember my girl friend making the statement, "Well, there are some things you can't do on a Mac," I responded, "What," ... she didn't have an answer ... sure there are those apps that are proprietary on one platform or the other, but in the end ... nobody cares.

What boils down to the "Mac vs PC" answer is what works best for you. The sun will rise tomorrow regardless to which platform you use.

When, at the end of the day, you and your clients are happy with the finished product, who cares which platform you use?




Jul 11, 2008 at 08:58 PM
mauriceramirez
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p.3 #7 · PC or Mac????


As a former real estate company owner I know that all MLS interface software is Windows-compatible only. While you can browse listings on Macs, to write up contracts, listing agreements, title company forms, even the state regulatory forms are always PC-only. Fields wouldn't show up, browsers would crash, etc. Local board tech support even laughed at me when I told them I insisted on Macs in our office.

Which is too bad, since most REALTORS and office assistants would be much better off using Macs in that line of profession, for their looks, turnkey wireless, speed, stability and the easy learning curve. Our clients would always ooh and aah over listing presentations and signings that I did on our sleek apple laptops and screens. Realtors are inherently the perfect match for OS X. Too bad nobody bothered to make a dedicated Real Estate Office Suite type of product during they heyday--they would have made a fortune off of all of us.

-m

Edited on Jul 11, 2008 at 10:31 PM



Jul 11, 2008 at 10:30 PM
Nick Klofkorn
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p.3 #8 · PC or Mac????


nikon or canon?


Jul 11, 2008 at 11:14 PM
tived
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p.3 #9 · PC or Mac????


Jerry,

Point taken - regarding using your name at the top! Please accept my apology on that count.

Henrik

PS: We will have to agree to disagree on the Mac as a must for computer graphics art work



Jul 12, 2008 at 11:35 AM
tived
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p.3 #10 · PC or Mac????


Arka,

Thanks for your insight - How do we determine how efficient we are? I am not trying to unusually cheeky but, how do we determine that I am more or less efficient then you or someone else. Where is the benchmark...?

I usually upgrade my machines every 2-3 years, this time around the cycle will probably be longer as I don't see a need to improve on my hardware, but more so on my workflow, in other words, the machine is most of the time faster then I am or is able to complete most tasks faster then I am able to keep up, most of the time...sure, when I work on 2+ Gb images, it struggles.

I am using a Mac five days a week, doing very similar tasks on this as I do on my PC work machine... apart from the Mac being pretty and quieter isn't offering that much more. There are many things that I like, but not really enough to push me over, despite having considered it several times. Maybe next time...

cheers everyone, go out and make some images and some dollars!

Henrik



Jul 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Jonathan Knight
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p.3 #11 · PC or Mac????


This thing is STILL going?

Geez, guys!!! I had my two cents, some will agree with it, others won't. It's just a computer, no need to get in a heated verbal debate on a message board about it!!



Jul 12, 2008 at 04:59 PM
mkonik
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p.3 #12 · PC or Mac????


Get a Mac Pro Tower over an iMac, its a world of difference, of course so is the cost but well worth it. If you have the need to run Windows just get Boot Camp, Parallels or Fusion. Ironically, My Mac is still my fastest Windows machine. If you are comfortable building out PC hardware the iMac can be a little frustrating since you only really have easy access to the RAM. Pretty much anything else requires you to separate the housing and this is a royal pain. You might also be interested in something like the EFiX dongle which hopefully will be shipping later this year.


Jul 12, 2008 at 06:03 PM
David Baldwin
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p.3 #13 · PC or Mac????


jm

I would recommend that you stay with the platform you understand best, whichever it is. The practical differences between Mac and PC are now vanishingly small. Macs look prettier, and cost alot more IMHO. Yes, you have to run virus software on PCs, but there again this is easy and often free. You can do identical photo editing on both platforms. Nothing much to get worked up about.

Last year I decided to buy a laptop to work on digital images on the road. I bought a Dell laptop, 2 gigs of RAM etc, works a treat. Cost me £250. You can't even buy the box a Mac comes in for that kind of money.

The industry bias towards Mac is largely based on historical factors, in the 1990's Windows machines used to require an expensive graphics card as an extra, whereas Macs came with good cards built in. This advantage is long gone, in fact the Windows graphics cards industry is cutting edge technology.

I'm not in love with Bill Gate's crowd, but I see no reason for the rampant snobbery in favour of Mac many of its users seem to possess. Heck, Macs can even use proper mice these days

Flame suit on!



Jul 12, 2008 at 06:21 PM
andrew81
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p.3 #14 · PC or Mac????


Instead of you'll arguing about the platform differences, about about the actual physicality of each system.
I love my Powerbook laptop and I love OSX a great deal more than Windows. HOWEVER I have remained with a Windows system for my office because I can add/removes HDD's with ease. Very difficult with an iMac and a Power Mac is out of my price range.

I will be getting a new Intel Mac at the end of the year where I can claim it on tax



Jul 13, 2008 at 12:22 AM
jerryrock
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p.3 #15 · PC or Mac????


andrew81 wrote:
Instead of you'll arguing about the platform differences, about about the actual physicality of each system.
I love my Powerbook laptop and I love OSX a great deal more than Windows. HOWEVER I have remained with a Windows system for my office because I can add/removes HDD's with ease. Very difficult with an iMac and a Power Mac is out of my price range.

I will be getting a new Intel Mac at the end of the year where I can claim it on tax


Just a note: Apple no longer produces the Power Mac.

The MacPro has four removable drive bays that side in with no additional connections needed.



Jul 13, 2008 at 10:32 AM
andrew81
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p.3 #16 · PC or Mac????


opps sorry, I did mean Mac Pro but got confused.


Jul 13, 2008 at 03:39 PM
mdude85
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p.3 #17 · PC or Mac????


jerryrock wrote:
The MacPro has four removable drive bays that side in with no additional connections needed.


Yes, but andrew81 was specifically referring to the iMac, not the Mac Pro.





Jul 14, 2008 at 10:38 AM
mdude85
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p.3 #18 · PC or Mac????


butchM wrote:
I remember my girl friend making the statement, "Well, there are some things you can't do on a Mac," I responded, "What," ... she didn't have an answer ... sure there are those apps that are proprietary on one platform or the other, but in the end ... nobody cares.



One thing that can be done with a Windows (Vista) machine that cannot be done with any Mac is native voice dictation for accessibility purposes. This includes the ability to control the cursor with voice input.



Jul 14, 2008 at 10:44 AM
mdude85
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p.3 #19 · PC or Mac????


Ben Horne wrote:
I am always very careful not to make absolute statements. Notice how I said the world "almost" in point #1, and I said "usually" in #2. I did not make any absolute statements, which leaves room for the exceptions to the rule. There are always exceptions to the rule.

You replied by saying that there is "absolutely no truth to these statements." Thus, you have used an absolute --- and very literally so. When such statements are made, it typically does not contribute to the conversation in a beneficial way.

Be very careful how you use your words. I have
...Show more

Yes, I did absolutely refute the comment that most vocal PC users have never used a PC. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with making an absolute statement. It is not the statement being absolute that does not contribute to beneficial conversation, but rather the content of the statement itself regardless of absoluteness.



I have used PCs for most of my experience using computers, but I have switched to Mac about 5 years ago. According to your own words, I must not exist because there is absolutely no truth to my statements.



No, those are according to your own words, not mine. I never said people don't switch to Mac from PC. I said that there is no truth to the statement that vocal PC users rarely have used Macs. The two ideas don't have anything to do with one another.

Regardless, the main thrust of my original comment, which does not require reading between the lines of my post to find supposed logical fallacy, is that most NON-vocal PC users have rarely used a Mac and thus have no opinion on the matter either way. But you weren't talking about those users. You specifically mentioned vocal PC users. Most vocal PC users are so-named "power users" and they generally have used other OSs including Mac. They use computers often, many for work purposes, and further quite a few of them are developers themselves. They are vocal proponents of Windows systems because they have first-hand experience with alternative OSs such as Mac and they have chosen Windows for specific reasons.

Edited on Jul 14, 2008 at 10:57 AM



Jul 14, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Planetwide
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p.3 #20 · PC or Mac????


lordarka wrote:
mDude:
your belief that the "cache[t]" [sp] in owning a Mac lies in the hardware is the kind of statement that leads people like Ben to question the general depth of your platform knowledge. Yours is a common refrain among hardware-centered users, who often display a real insensitivity to poorly designed software. This is perhaps understandable, since software design isn't something that neatly fits onto a spec-sheet.

The measure of good software is its efficient use of system resources, stability, and its ability to accomodate a universe of user preferences. Attention to these criteria is clearly lacking in the Windows
...Show more

Thanks for a reasoned response. As someone who is about to switch to Mac and will run both enviroments for the forseeable future, I have a couple of questions regarding document management - if you have the time.

Will the Omni Group Outliner support pdf, word, and excel formats? I am currently using Paperport on the PC for my document management and I am very happy with the software, do you know of a similar program for the Mac?

thanks

Andrew



Jul 14, 2008 at 11:36 AM
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