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Archive 2008 · PC or Mac????

  
 
mdude85
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p.2 #1 · PC or Mac????


jmphotography wrote:
I am currently a PC guy for my photography business. I build my own PC's. Currently have a Core2Duo 6700 with 4g of ram. I am mostly doing photoshop CS3 and some business apps like Quickbooks pro. I am thinking of going to an imac. Can anyone share any experiences, either positive or negative? I guess my biggest drawback is the investment in software that I currently own in PC.
Thanks


You could go back and forth on this argument all day, but the real question is what your motivation is for switching to an iMac?



Jul 09, 2008 at 11:42 AM
mdude85
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p.2 #2 · PC or Mac????


jerryrock wrote:
I am a Graphic Designer as well as a Photographer. Mac is a necessity in my field. The Mac is used in every higher educational institution that offer degrees in Graphic Design as well as Photography. Most creative professionals use Apple computers. They are well designed with form and function in mind. It is not a coincidence that the Mac operating system and Apple computers are built and supported by the same company. Apple offers the best support in the industry and the fact that can run Windows just adds to their usability.



"Creative professionals" use Macs because the design industry has trended toward using them for the last 10 or 15 years. It is quite difficult for the industry to make the switch now, but that does not mean using Mac is a "necessity." It is simply a matter of course.



Jul 09, 2008 at 11:49 AM
lou f
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p.2 #3 · PC or Mac????


jmphotography wrote:
I am currently a PC guy for my photography business. I build my own PC's. Currently have a Core2Duo 6700 with 4g of ram. I am mostly doing photoshop CS3 and some business apps like Quickbooks pro. I am thinking of going to an imac. Can anyone share any experiences, either positive or negative? I guess my biggest drawback is the investment in software that I currently own in PC.
Thanks


adobe let you transfere you licence when you upgrade, cs4 is supposed to be here in september.

pc in work mac at home, very happy.



Jul 09, 2008 at 11:55 AM
mdphotography
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p.2 #4 · PC or Mac????


botom line- men who use mac get way hotter chicks.


Jul 09, 2008 at 12:22 PM
Arka
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p.2 #5 · PC or Mac????


mDude: your belief that the "cache[t]" [sp] in owning a Mac lies in the hardware is the kind of statement that leads people like Ben to question the general depth of your platform knowledge. Yours is a common refrain among hardware-centered users, who often display a real insensitivity to poorly designed software. This is perhaps understandable, since software design isn't something that neatly fits onto a spec-sheet.

The measure of good software is its efficient use of system resources, stability, and its ability to accomodate a universe of user preferences. Attention to these criteria is clearly lacking in the Windows world; while the Mac is not an absolute antidote, it is a lot easier to find better software in the Mac world. I have become a heavy user of elegantly designed Mac shareware for my text and document management needs. (See shareware software developed by the Omni Group, or independent gems like Scrivener, to get a sense of what I'm talking about).

I also find that MacOS, for all of its flaws, manages system resources more efficiently, and also gives me window management tools that complement my workflow as I need them. Expose and Spaces are not mere graphical flourishes or "eye candy," but rather are substantively useful information management tools that have no real equivalent in an XP or Vista world.

Like many computer users, I live in MS and Mac universes coextensively; my Mac has the unique distinction of being the only platform that may lawfully run both OS'es at the same time. Windows proficiency is necessary in the professional world I inhabit. That said, I keep a Mac on my desk when I have to do really complex research or document generation, because the software available on that platform makes management of many windows, sources, and document sections that much easier. There are no real Windows equivalents. These differences in operation overflow into visual creation as well. I prefer to do my illustration, 3D, and photography work on a Mac because I've grown accustomed to the workflow benefits it provides. I've also grown accustomed to being able to run Windows on those rare occasions where I absolutely need to do things in Windows. (i.e learning on my "Mudbox" demo). With no real performance penalty on the hardware side, I see little reason to deny myself the flexibility of using MacOS.

ghouston13 wrote:If Mac/Apple were so great, why don't they just build a version for PC users and make money off of the (apparently) millions wanting to jump ship from Windows?

You know the answer to your own question quite well. There is a reason, related to profit margins, that Apple likes to control the hardware. Building a stable and reliable OS to accommodate every possible hardware configuration, including those using poorly designed hardware, is a monumental task that even a dedicated software behemoth like Microsoft hasn't been able to solve. Apple's model has been to limit the hardware to ensure stability in the software. Do I think that OSX could be designed to embrace a wider range of hardware, while still retaining its stability? Yes! But that would be a very bad business decision for Apple; the company would devote massive resources to expanding MacOS's hardware umbrella while absolutely abolishing Apple's ability to profit from its hardware configurations. And it would do so at tremendous risk to its reputation as a purveyor of a seamless computing "experience" that relies on both hardware and software.

For most people, interaction with a computer involves one or two input devices, a monitor, and software. The software experience defines how well that interaction goes. I don't need multiple ethernet cards in my computer, nor do I need SLI with GeForce Boost to increase my Doom3 frag rates to stratospheric levels. I'm a productivity user with specific hardware demands; the Mac hardware universe, with its selection of strong NVIDIA cards and state-of-the-art Intel CPU architectures, fills those needs. I am willing to accept limits in the potentiality of my hardware if my software experience improves as a result. I am especially open to such restriction when it is modest, and the base hardware powerful enough to preclude the immediate need to upgrade.

As a former builder of PC desktops (Intel BX, AMD Socket 939, Intel Socket D), I really can't say I miss the days where I felt compelled to open up my system, inhale dust, and snap components in and out of the slots to optimize performance.

Arka C.

Edited on Jul 09, 2008 at 01:18 PM



Jul 09, 2008 at 01:13 PM
jerryrock
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p.2 #6 · PC or Mac????


mdude85 wrote:
"Creative professionals" use Macs because the design industry has trended toward using them for the last 10 or 15 years. It is quite difficult for the industry to make the switch now, but that does not mean using Mac is a "necessity." It is simply a matter of course.


When you pursue a degree in Graphic Design or Photography, the College or University will be teaching the Adobe Creative Suite on Apple computers running Mac OSX.

When you are hired by a Graphic Design firm, you are expected to know how to use a Mac as well as PC.

So the answer is yes it is a necessity.



Jul 09, 2008 at 01:55 PM
polarbare
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p.2 #7 · PC or Mac????


hehe.. another one of these eh?
My only contributions will be:
1)I own a MacBook Pro and Several PCs - I like both but will continue building PCs as my primary computers. The Macbook Pro was a convenience issue.

2) Supposedly Windows crashes constantly, is a nightmare to get it to do what you want, and is just a virus-catch waiting to happen.
My Windows computers never crash, i don't even have A/V software installed, and it does everything I want with minimal effort on my part and i have both XP and Vista running flawlessly.

As I've said before, if Microsoft only had to support 8-10 hardware configurations instead of the tens of thousands (or more) configurations that they do support, it would be as "stable/easy/just works/insert your macism here" as OS X.

In reality, they're both fine operating systems and it's a matter of preference in how you interact with it. Photoshop/Premiere/FinalCut Pro/etc/etc/etc all work equally well on both platforms so flip a coin.


Edited by polarbare on Jul 09, 2008 at 03:18 PM GMT

Edited by polarbare on Jul 09, 2008 at 03:18 PM GMT

Edited on Jul 09, 2008 at 03:18 PM



Jul 09, 2008 at 03:17 PM
mdude85
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p.2 #8 · PC or Mac????


lordarka wrote:
mDude:
your belief that the "cache[t]" [sp] in owning a Mac lies in the hardware is the kind of statement that leads people like Ben to question the general depth of your platform knowledge. Yours is a common refrain among hardware-centered users, who often display a real insensitivity to poorly designed software. This is perhaps understandable, since software design isn't something that neatly fits onto a spec-sheet.


lordarka wrote:
mDude:
your belief that the "cache[t]" [sp] in owning a Mac lies in the hardware is the kind of statement that leads people like Ben to question the general depth of your platform knowledge.

Arka C.


Huh? I never said that. I said the cachet in owning a Mac is owning a branded machine -- that is, owning a piece of white or brushed aluminum with the glowing Apple on it. The product design is one major thing that draws people to Macs from Windows machines. The hardware is secondary -- most of it is made by ASUS anyway -- being available in such consumer avenues as Newegg.com.

My platform knowledge is very deep, thanks -- I am not some mere "fanboy."



Jul 09, 2008 at 03:18 PM
mdude85
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p.2 #9 · PC or Mac????


jerryrock wrote:
When you pursue a degree in Graphic Design or Photography, the College or University will be teaching the Adobe Creative Suite on Apple computers running Mac OSX.

When you are hired by a Graphic Design firm, you are expected to know how to use a Mac as well as PC.

So the answer is yes it is a necessity.


Learning how to use a Mac - A necessity

Using a Mac - Not a necessity

Quite a difference.


Edited by mdude85 on Jul 09, 2008 at 03:36 PM GMT

Edited on Jul 09, 2008 at 03:36 PM



Jul 09, 2008 at 03:19 PM
polarbare
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p.2 #10 · PC or Mac????


As a former builder of PC desktops (Intel BX, AMD Socket 939, Intel Socket D), I really can't say I miss the days where I felt compelled to open up my system, inhale dust, and snap components in and out of the slots to optimize performance.

Which you only need to do in order to upgrade your RAM/video card/hard drives, just like on a Mac.



Jul 09, 2008 at 03:21 PM
Arka
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p.2 #11 · PC or Mac????


mdude85 wrote:
Huh? I never said that. I said the cachet in owning a Mac is owning a branded machine -- that is, owning a piece of white or brushed aluminum with the glowing Apple on it. The product design is one major thing that draws people to Macs from Windows machines. The hardware is secondary -- most of it is made by ASUS anyway -- being available in such consumer avenues as Newegg.com.

My platform knowledge is very deep, thanks -- I am not some mere "fanboy."


What you said was....

"Not to mention that the cache of owning a Mac is not in using Mac OS but having physical possession of the branded machines."

My critique of your generalization is that you failed to consider the appeal of the software design alongside the hardware design. The former is much more important than the latter in distinguishing Apple's computers from their competition.

"Cachet" comes not simply from owning an attractive, branded machine. Were Macs nothing more than svelte, brushed aluminum Windows machines with pulsing white buttons, they would not have so loyal a following. The OS is crucial to the machine's appeal and long-term desirability. .

Many companies on the Windows side have attempted to design beautiful machines in an attempt to build brand identity (Toshiba Toughbooks and Sony VAIOs come to mind), but neither has the following that Apple's machines do. I personally feel that Apple machines are better designed, but that's not the real draw of the platform; the OS is.

Arka C.



Jul 09, 2008 at 04:33 PM
Rob Tracy
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p.2 #12 · PC or Mac????


ghouston13 is pretty much on target.

I'd like to add that a stock MacBook Pro is fairly close in price to an equivalent Dell. Apple gets you in the upgrades. Just build a system and you'll quickly see how much the prices are out of line. Apple ram is the most obvious. If you upgrade, buy from Newegg and do it yourself.

I think a lot of people find, myself included, the OSX environment to be more productive. Now if they would just add a package manager... nevermind that. I prefer to use OSX for just about everything except gaming.

As for the virus/malware/trojen problems, both systems have ugly vulnerabilities. The security edge goes to UNIX but you will see more malicious critters for OSX as it gains market share.

Stability? It's a wash. I have to force quit an application in OSX about as often as in Vista. Which is very rarely.

I will say that Photoshop CS3, Microsoft Office (2008 Mac) and Capture NX is tad more responsive on an lesser equipped Windows PC. It's nothing that makes any difference but the feeling is there. It bugged me a first but I got over it.

Now I need to stop buying computers and save for a 600mm prime.













Jul 09, 2008 at 04:44 PM
Mike Pipes
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p.2 #13 · PC or Mac????


Bah.. enough of this nerdy computer talk. Let's all go shoot something!!


Jul 09, 2008 at 06:26 PM
mdude85
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p.2 #14 · PC or Mac????


lordarka wrote:
My critique of your generalization is that you failed to consider the appeal of the software design alongside the hardware design. The former is much more important than the latter in distinguishing Apple's computers from their competition.

"Cachet" comes not simply from owning an attractive, branded machine. Were Macs nothing more than svelte, brushed aluminum Windows machines with pulsing white buttons, they would not have so loyal a following. The OS is crucial to the machine's appeal and long-term desirability.



Software is a usability issue. I'm not "failing to consider" the appeal of the software design, but everyone knows that software is not typically the first consideration of most users who purchase a Mac. And Apple knows this. Else, they would start loading Mac OS on Dell and Sony systems. But of course the branded machine is integral to the cachet. It is no coincidence that white and brushed alumnium Macbooks have historically sold far better than their black cohorts.

Macs have a loyal following among a vocal minority for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the desire to counter the mainstream. I will agree that the OS design is in the top 5 reasons to own a Mac....


Edited on Jul 10, 2008 at 07:47 AM



Jul 10, 2008 at 07:42 AM
tived
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p.2 #15 · PC or Mac????


jerryrock wrote:
When you pursue a degree in Graphic Design or Photography, the College or University will be teaching the Adobe Creative Suite on Apple computers running Mac OSX.

When you are hired by a Graphic Design firm, you are expected to know how to use a Mac as well as PC.

So the answer is yes it is a necessity.


Jerry et al....

You usually come with very good advise, but I really have a problem with your comments to this thread.
************
Disclaimer!!!
Jerry, this isn't meant to be a personal attack on you!
**********
Sure you may be expected to know how to use both a Mac or a PC base computer, but that by no means mean that you have to work on either. I guess if you are good enough, they will have to buy you the toys that you choose to work on, after all it is about the outcome, not the tool.

It is common knowledge that Apple have had the upper hand in the graphics or indeed the creative computing field, most kids these days learn on PC's and sure MAC is offering very good incentives to educational institutions, so kids at UNI, around the globe, learn on a Mac and hopefully will insist on a mac when they are employed! Smart thinking.... but you still don't have to use a Mac to make good artistic work on a computer!

I too, see this far too often, a photographers studio, will make the switch from PC to Mac...because they look so cool...but hey, unless you place a little Apple sticker on the print or disk as they go out, no one, I mean NO ONE could tell you its made on a Mac or PC for that matter.

On the brighter side, if you like Mac, by all means use one. Too often people who have this too one-sided Mac view that Mac's are the only way. Have never really used an equal PC.
There are some really nice features on the Mac OS and there are some really shit ones on the Windows and vs.

Apple only have to cater for a small hardware market, one which they almost dictate themselves, for better and for worse. Windows have to cater for a much greater market, with an almost endless combinations of components - this freedom is also their downfall.

Any idiot can use a Mac, any idiot drive an automatic car...now apart from the shortcut keys what is the difference between using Photoshop on a mac or a pc? How does using Photoshop or illustrator or Maya or Autocad differ from one OS to another?

Do you become less creative because you use XYZ machine? or XYZ software?

I guess, if you choose to work on a 286 PC and expect it to fly like a Mac Pro, well then surely you are going to run into some differences. But if you equip your computer to suit your needs, well, then you the user is the limiting factor, not the hardware or software.

Mac/PC at work and PC at home...have every now and then played with the thought of changing to Mac, but either the drones at the Mac store has chased me away with their single minded vision or I haven't been able to see the advantage.

The Mac Pro is a pleasure to work on, but so is my equal PC with either windows XP x64 or Vista x64.

I choose PC's because, I can make changes to it as I see fit, much like a drag-racer does to his car....however, tell me to open the hood on my car and give it an oil change and I freak out,....I am sure many Mac people feel the same way about their computer.

Choose your own poison

Henrik



Jul 11, 2008 at 04:18 AM
jerryrock
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p.2 #16 · PC or Mac????


tived wrote:
Jerry et al....

You usually come with very good advise, but I really have a problem with your comments to this thread.
************
Disclaimer!!!
Jerry, this isn't meant to be a personal attack on you!
**********
Henrik


Henrik,

If this was not meant as a personal attack, why single me out listing my name at the top of your post? My contribution to this thread is for the benefit of the OP and is from my personal experience while obtaining a degree in Graphic Design. Yes, I had to work on Macs, it was required. I was a hardened PC user having owned PCs for over 18 years and came to the realization that the Mac was a better choice for my new career. My brother had been touting the advantages of Macs for years and I would always come up with reasons why they would not work for me. My college Professor advised me to purchase a Mac and learn the OS as it was required for my field. The advent of the intel based Mac changed my whole outlook on the subject. I was no longer limited to using OSX but could also run Windows natively. I soon found that there were very few programs that did not have Mac counterparts.

My MacBook Pro dual boots with OSX and Vista Ultimate 64bit. My old PC is now dedicated to run Media Center for my entertainment center. The MacBook Pro runs Windows faster than any other laptop. I find Apple products to be better designed with the best technical support available. Did I mention that Apple invented color managed systems?

This is why I recommend Macs to Graphic Professionals.

Jerry





Jul 11, 2008 at 10:56 AM
PhotoGuy76
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p.2 #17 · PC or Mac????


I ran a Microsoft Network and 50 Workstations before I quit and became a photographer and I had those babies running. I have since switched to Mac and can honestly say that colours are superb, easy to use, easy to delete applications, intuitive and, it was my son who "converted" me. I am not snob or Microsoft hater, but just hated being the guinea pig while Microsoft worked out the bugs and hated constantly watching my rear end for viruses. It is probably a case of "six or half-a-dozen" but even though Mac may be pricey up front, the peace of mind, the service and quality is unmatched.


Jul 11, 2008 at 11:30 AM
butchM
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p.2 #18 · PC or Mac????


jerryrock wrote:
Did I mention that Apple invented color managed systems?


Also, in the early days of photo manipulation, graphic design, page layout, etc., the top apps like PS, PageMaker and the like were only available in Mac OS. Many of us who have been in the field since those days were weaned on Macs because of this. Sure Windows based PCs are equal in abilities and less expensive in many cases these days, but I don't buy and use Macs solely based on bottom line based on the purchase price. I have bitched and moaned every time I have to spend what it costs to own Mac hardware. Until at the end of the life cycle of that hardware, I examine what I was able to create vs my investment as well as the ease of use in getting there. The finished product and the user friendly means of achieving that product has always been well worth the investment. Every Apple machine I have purchased long outlived it's expected useful capacity. There is more to the Mac picture than meets the eye in many cases. While it may not be "necessary" to use a Mac or OS X to work in the field, I for one, much prefer and enjoy using it as my platform of choice. I also think you will find relatively few who have made the switch to Mac that regret doing so.



Jul 11, 2008 at 12:56 PM
vkalia
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p.2 #19 · PC or Mac????


Hey, techies can argue all they want about how stable Windows is, etc. etc. I always struggled with crashes, progressively-slowing OS and generally clunky way of doing things on Windows. Switched to a Mac last year and I can just work a lot more efficiently. Things work the way they are, and I can tailor the OS (Expose, Space, Quicksilver) to really make my computer time a lot more productive.

I dont like spending time on computers - but my time is a lot more efficient on a Mac. I am never going back to Windows - and my only regret is not switching earlier.

What you do is up to you - this is just my experience. Now we have 2 Macbooks, a Mac Mini and I am in the process of replacing all our work computers with Macs. I can set up and manage networks myself in a few minutes, I can wirelessly and automatically back up all my work onto storage drives, etc. etc. Yep, life is sure easier.

Vandit



Jul 11, 2008 at 02:56 PM
BluePixel
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p.2 #20 · PC or Mac????


Mac !


Jul 11, 2008 at 04:09 PM
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