Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Moderated by: guardian

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules

FM Forums | Alternative Gear & Lenses | Join Image Upload

3 … 24 25 end

Archive 2008 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Andi Dietrich
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.2 #1 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Thanks Mark to share your insight on this lens, sorry I once more have to leave a critical comment about it

These are not bokeh samples, these are OOF blur disc samples, it doesnt tell a lot about the quality of the bokeh, maybe it tells something about the character of the bokeh though. Curvature of field may just be too different to any other lenses to compare them the way you have done it.

I believe that the reason some lenses do not fully correct CA wide open, is that you have shaped OOF discs and not the IMO boring blobs of the Sigma. Again some people may like it others dont and it is certainly a lens with some appeal to people who want to replace the Canon 1.4

Jul 01, 2008 at 06:53 PM

martinsmith
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #2 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

What's wrong with the bokeh of the Siggy?

Jul 01, 2008 at 06:54 PM

timbop
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.2 #3 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

cogitech wrote:
I prefer the Sigma bokeh. It is all so subjective, I suppose.

agreed. I suppose it depends on what "look" you are going for, but I like buttery backgrounds

Jul 01, 2008 at 07:57 PM

CKrueger
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #4 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

It's amusing that for years around here we've heard people complain about the busy bokeh of Canon lenses and rave about the smooth bokeh of other makes of lenses. Now that Sigma seems to have put out a lens with smooth bokeh, some complain that its bokeh is not busy enough.

Perhaps Sigma needs to launch a luxury brand, ala Lexus.

Jul 01, 2008 at 08:44 PM

Andi Dietrich
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.2 #5 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

CKrueger wrote:
It's amusing that for years around here we've heard people complain about the busy bokeh of Canon lenses and rave about the smooth bokeh of other makes of lenses. Now that Sigma seems to have put out a lens with smooth bokeh, some complain that its bokeh is not busy enough.

Perhaps Sigma needs to launch a luxury brand, ala Lexus.

You missed the point.
we have no idea how the full image looks like, where the focus sits, how much the blobs are out of focus, the distance to the background, the scale of the image

Jul 01, 2008 at 08:58 PM

JohnJ
Online
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #6 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

I think the sigmas's bokeh looks best.
JJ

Jul 01, 2008 at 10:03 PM

hubsand
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #7 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Andi Dietrich wrote:
You missed the point.
we have no idea how the full image looks like, where the focus sits, how much the blobs are out of focus, the distance to the background, the scale of the image.

The point is that all four lenses were placed under identical conditions; the comparative difference is the point.

I'm not sure that posting the full frame will tell you anything more meaningful than the crops, but here it is anyway: the Sigma at f4. Distance to focal plane (subject centre frame) was about 1m. Distance to bokeh samples ranged from about 15cm to 1.5m. As stated previously, all these are background rather than foreground samples.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

I will be looking at the bokeh in other settings but I'm not interested in shooting an unrealistically contrived set: for me, bokeh only becomes an issue when it's either too busy, draws ugly light discs, or has prominent CA – so I'll be seeking out scenes that tell me something I want to know.

If anyone wants to see samples of different areas at different scales or apertures, just shout.

Edited on Jul 01, 2008 at 10:27 PM

Jul 01, 2008 at 10:21 PM

FranchiseJuan
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #8 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

From what i can see, I am linking this Sigma very much. I am probably going to get one to have a play with, as i have no AF 50 at the moment.

Mark: Have you got a sample as above but at F1.4? Just want to see what it is like.

Jul 01, 2008 at 11:26 PM

hubsand
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #9 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

FranchiseJuan wrote:
Mark: Have you got a sample as above but at F1.4? Just want to see what it is like.

This image is copyrighted by the owner

Jul 01, 2008 at 11:47 PM

mh2000
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.2 #10 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

looking very very promising to me! thanks!

Jul 02, 2008 at 12:05 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #11 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Andi Dietrich wrote:
Does the EXIF allow lens corrections in DPP? This may be a possibility if Sigma adapter the same settings of the EF50mm

I just got my Sigma 50 tonight. Yes, it allows lens corrections in DPP.
I'm not sure how relevant this is, since the geometric distortion is very
well controlled on this lens, and I haven't seen much CA with it.
I also noticed that Peripheral Illumination correction vastly over-corrected
the vignetting, if I used the standard amount (100).

Tim

Jul 02, 2008 at 06:37 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #12 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

I'm posting some shots taken with the Sigma 50/1.4 on a 30D.
Shots processed in DPP with default constrast and sharpness (0 and 3,
respectively) in "Standard" picture style. The white balance was either
"Daylight" or "Shade". These shots were taken in the evening. The light
varies from fairly bright, golden hour light, to shaded and dim.

The resizing was with Photoshop Elements using Bicubic and subsequently
Unsharp Mask (125%, 0.3, 0). Crops are 100% crops from the 8-bit TIFF files
out of DPP, with no further processing in Photoshop.

All shots are wide open, f/1.4, except the last pair, as indicated.

Edited by trumpet_guy on Jul 02, 2008 at 02:44 AM GMT

2008 © trumpet_guy

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 09:44 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:12 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #13 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

....continued.....

2008 © trumpet_guy

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:16 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #14 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

---continued----

2008 © trumpet_guy

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:18 AM

Ariel Bravy
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.2 #15 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

That Sigma's bokeh looks gorgeous! Any comparisons with the Canon 50's?

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:19 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #16 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Same tree, but at f/2

2008 © trumpet_guy

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:19 AM

Jonas B
Offline
Buy and Sell: On

p.2 #17 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

trumpet_guy wrote:
I'm posting some shots taken with the Sigma 50/1.4 on a 30D.(...)

Thank you for the images. The lens look very promising. What's your first impression with regards to AF? Silent, slow, missing or fast and nailing?

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:27 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #18 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Fast, quiet, generally accurate. I'm getting about the same AF accuracy with
the Siggy on my 30D that I get with Canon lenses on this body: which is to say
good, but not perfect. When it misses, it generally front-focuses a little, but I
think this is as much the body's fault as anything. This lens seems about as
accurate in AF as my EF 100 f/2.

The build quality is very nice on this Sigma. When focusing from minimum
distance out to long distance, it is smooth and pretty fast, with a really nice
quality feel to the focus motor. There is fairly heavy glass to move, and the
HSM is up to the task. When focusing over a smaller range, around 8 to 10 meters
out, you can sometimes feel a little clunk in the mechanism, as it is moving and
stopping very quickly.

Overall, the lens feels very much like a slightly larger Sigma 30/1.4

I think they have optimized this lens for bokeh and uniformity across the full frame.
Distortion is minimal. Straight lines look straight. No visible vignetting on 1.6x crop
body -- even wide open. Colors are fantastic.

It is still possible to get low contrast with the lens, when shot in dim, soft light,
but I think it's still better wide open than the EF 50/1.4 or the CZ 50/1.4 Planar.

Tim

Edited by trumpet_guy on Jul 02, 2008 at 02:46 AM GMT

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 09:46 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:39 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #19 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:41 AM

brainiac
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #20 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

> I think the sigmas's bokeh looks best.

The bokeh question is a matter of taste, and I am well aware that few share my bad taste. I like my bokeh to look more interesting than this lens makes it. Whether smooth, Leica-style bokeh kills 3D effect or not, I don't know, but I don't think it's impossible that there is a connection between sharp edged image circles, extended depth of field, 3D effect, and edge sharpness.

In hubsands sample of the tassle thingy hanging off the table, all the lenses draw a beautiful mysterious object which clearly has a pattern of strong points of light in it. On the Sigma it's just mush, so the lens is telling me less about the scene.

I would be interested to see if this lens can produce the kind of interesting edge effects that Lotus gets on his ZF100 f2:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

One of the reasons I am not always very enthusiastic about Leica glass is that in seeking creamy bokeh, 3D effect often seems to be lost. I accept that this is purely conjectural, so I probably won't stand by it if someone can challenge it or has counterexamples.

Ultimately I don't think busy has to mean ugly. Sharp-edged bokeh can still be smooth, even if it is also well-defined.

As always, thanks Mark for sharing your data so generously.

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 10:01 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 09:58 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #21 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Jul 02, 2008 at 10:02 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #22 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Jul 02, 2008 at 10:06 AM

brainiac
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #23 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Don't get me wrong - it's clearly a lovely lens.

By chance I just came across a brilliant example by wee of what I like about the ZF 100 bokeh, which illustrates, I think, how hard edged bokeh can still be pretty:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

wee, I hope you don't mind my posting it here for illustration.

Note the wonderfully abstract yet also informative shapes made by the second flower on the right. With this kind of bokeh the background isn't wasted, it becomes a pictorial complement to the subject. It's serendipity, sure, but it's amazing how often this lens seems to produce bokeh which doesn't distract, yet stands as a picture in its own right.

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 10:11 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 10:07 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #24 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Ariel Bravy wrote:
That Sigma's bokeh looks gorgeous! Any comparisons with the Canon 50's?

Not yet, but I hope to compare them this long weekend.

Jul 02, 2008 at 10:13 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.2 #25 · Sigma 50mm: Marmite Bokeh

Richard,

Yeah, I like that bokeh as well. There's room for both kinds in a kit.

Wee, Nice exposure on that shot!

Edited on Jul 02, 2008 at 10:18 AM

Jul 02, 2008 at 10:17 AM


FM Forums \| Alternative Gear & Lenses \| Join Image Upload 1 2 3 … 24 25 end