Archive 2008 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
hassy501 Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #1 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
sboerup wrote:
I think it's totally pompous for churches to do this, when the bride is under full assumption that she will have photographs during the reception. I would politely tell the minister that I will not take any photographs if the guests refrain as well. As soon as the first guest takes a photo, I'm not stopping.
Seriously, how many guests get in the way with things, and are way more annoying using their flashes and all. I don't think the church policy would hold up in court if the bride were to sue due to a policy like this, that she was not informed of.
I'm not one to be confrontational, but, if a minister told me this the day before, or the day of, I would still be shooting. I was hired to do so, and I'm doing it unless the bride says otherwise. It's up to him if he wants to stop the wedding and make an even greater disturbance than a silly "camera click". I would ask the bride what she would want first though.
One bad review from a bride that had her ceremony destroyed by an upset officiant, or because they banned photography, and I don't see any future business for that venue....Show more →
Oh you know people will still get married there.....that one bad review won't stop anyone in the future from using that church/venue/officiant........memories are short......
p.2 #2 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
hassy501 wrote:
That sounds all good and legal but doesn't amount to a pile of beans....it's PRIVATE PROPERTY and they can make any rules that they want to........we may not like it, but that's the way it is........don't like it, find another career.............that's THEIR attitude.....not mine.........
The contract means absolutely NOTHING to the priest........as good as ass wipes....
I disagree. I think the pertinent line was this "This means its all negotiable and the money that is going to the church for the use of the facilities will carry the maximum amount of weight when the subject is breached early on by the couple"
That is to say that while the church has not yet got your money (or the booking) they will be more willing to negotiate than after.
So the original point of encouraging the couple to negotiate that as early as possible is pertinent and correct.
Jun 28, 2008 at 03:17 AM
hassy501 Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #3 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
In theory that sounds good, but in the Catholic Church, it's not a bargaining chip....maybe in smaller churches, but the Catholic Church would just laugh at that..........
The amount they charge is not really that much compared to getting married at the Ritz or some high end venue.......it's not as if the church is getting rich performing marriages. What they charge is minor.
Edited by hassy501 on Jun 28, 2008 at 08:33 AM GMT
p.2 #4 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
If he has not made a global announcement to the congregation prior to the ceremony that ALL photography is prohibited then he has discriminated against me as a professional photographer. If anyone else is allowed to photograph then I will take a seat in the very back and shoot.
My contract states that I am bound by House Rules, and that some desired photographs may not be obtainable due to various restrictions on photography. But in future I will discuss the possibility of zero ceremony photos with the couple during the consult. That may prompt them to ask well ahead of time .. not much can be done the day before.
Funny thing I just bought a 40D .. one of the main reasons was the silent shutter shooting which I felt may help during weddings.
Edited by Mike Mahoney on Jun 28, 2008 at 08:43 AM GMT
Edited on Jun 28, 2008 at 03:43 AM
Jun 28, 2008 at 03:32 AM
hassy501 Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #5 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
It's been a sore subject for many years.....the pros abide by the rules yet the guests do what they want........we can get banned, but guests don't........in reality, there is little chance of getting banned.......they won't remember who you are unless you do something so stupid that you leave an indelible mark for the ages.
p.2 #8 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
paparazzinick wrote:
yea we ran in to this a few times and I shoot anyway, especially if it is a church I know I wont be back to.
In-fact, today we had one where the minister said no way what so ever. I said to him tough. I was paid $6000 from the bride and groom and I WILL shoot during the ceremony. I will respect your religion and not interfere and I will not use flash but I WILL shoot. So if you cant respect that then throw me out and I walked away.
I shot respectfully as I always do and he came up to me after and said sorry I will rethink the no shooting in my church and let photographers shoot if they work like you....Show more →
p.2 #9 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
It seems like the pros that approach the clergy, judges, registrars, etc., professionally make some progress.
Might even undo some of the damage done by the clowns or at least help the next guy. Strikes me that clergy and other officiants aren't going to be receptive to the "Everybody else does it." argument.
p.2 #10 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
maxim_me wrote:
I think we should all invite Priest and church elders to post here
MAYBE we can get some perspective from them...............
As a licensed minister, I have no problem with photography during the entire wedding. I realize how important the photos are to capture the moments as they happen. Sure, you can try to recreate some things after (rings, kiss, etc.), but they are not the same, because the natural emotion of the moment is lost.
Maybe I'm just biased because I'm a photographer as well. The way I look at it, if the photographer wanted to climb up on my shoulders to get a good shot, I'd say, "Go for it!" Well, I wouldn't go that far, but you know what I mean.
Where I live, I've never encountered a minister/officiant who places any kind of limit on photography - flash included. For the weddings that I have photographed, I always ask the minister, and the reply has basically been the same: "You can do whatever you want." Can't ask for better than that.
p.2 #11 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
Mike Mahoney wrote:
There should be some kind of public register where officiants make there views on photography known, so that people can avoid them if they want. Hopefully that may put them out of business.
Vent over.
I'm in a line of five generations of ordained Presbyterians. I find it offensive to refer to clergy as being "in the business".
I also find the attitude of the clergyman you dealt with as offensive. As said, it's a double standard to restrict the pro and allow guests to fire away.
My son and daughter-in-law, both pastors, are level headed and reasonable. They're willing to work with photographers and will not punish one pro for the boorish activity of another.
p.2 #12 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
Doug,
I don't wish to be offensive, but all churches are in fact businesses. The clergy are employees. Some clergy may have purely altruistic motives, but every profession (or calling if you prefer) has its primadonnas. It seems that policy on photography during ceremonies is very much the "call" of the officiating clergyman or woman.
Thanks for posting here anyway. It's good to hear another perspective.
p.2 #13 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
Craig Gillette wrote:
It seems like the pros that approach the clergy, judges, registrars, etc., professionally make some progress.
Might even undo some of the damage done by the clowns or at least help the next guy. Strikes me that clergy and other officiants aren't going to be receptive to the "Everybody else does it." argument.
++++1
Most might bend the rules if asked in a civil manor.
I don't think these are "rules" of the church, but "rules" of the clergy.
p.2 #14 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
dmacmillan wrote:
I'm in a line of five generations of ordained Presbyterians. I find it offensive to refer to clergy as being "in the business".
Doug
These people are practicing their profession and are in business. In the same sense that the grocer on the corner, the pizza guy up the block or the photographer in the next town are all in business.
The manner in which they practice their business within their respective franchise varies widely. One would expect a catholic or an to be consistent from church to church in the same manner as a big mac or a whopper is pretty much the same the world over.
Unfortunately this is not the case and we are occasionally subject to the whims of the franchisee. Reason and professionalism can resolve most disputes.
Jun 28, 2008 at 10:28 PM
hassy501 Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #15 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
p.2 #16 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
Well he was pretty serious about it .. as I was taking some candids just before the ceremony he came up to me and said "Register signing & recessional only". Just those five words and and a look that said he meant business.
In future I'll discuss the possible photography restrictions with the couple during our initial consult and this will give them adequate time to ask the officiant about any restrictions and give them a chance to get another minister or priest.
To be fair to the minister it was one of the best behaved congregations I've seen .. his flock is well trained.
p.2 #17 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
Nice bride - quite the monumental church. No doubt a lot of blood, toil, lives and plate collections in those walls. Pity for the circumstance imposed by the fellow.
p.2 #18 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
This just happened to me last weekend. During the rehersal last Friday I was told that no flash photography would be allowed nor would anyone be allowed to move during the ceremony. On Saturday I pulled the pastor to the side before the ceremony and got permission to place myself behind in the choir loft and positioned two assistants, one on the front row and a second in the rear of the church. During the ceremony the guest were popping of shots on their point and shoots with flash constantly! Prior to the service it was announced to the guest to please avoid using their camera and flash during the ceremony because it could cause problems for the professionals but they might as well had been talking to the walls because it didn't happen.
Jun 29, 2008 at 10:18 AM
hassy501 Offline • • • • [X]
p.2 #19 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
Mike Mahoney wrote:
Well he was pretty serious about it .. as I was taking some candids just before the ceremony he came up to me and said "Register signing & recessional only". Just those five words and and a look that said he meant business.
In future I'll discuss the possible photography restrictions with the couple during our initial consult and this will give them adequate time to ask the officiant about any restrictions and give them a chance to get another minister or priest.
To be fair to the minister it was one of the best behaved congregations I've seen .. his flock is well trained.
p.2 #20 · "You will refrain from photographing ..."
And for those who fail to see to business end of church weddings a wedding in a larger church here will require payment to the church of between $250 to $400, depending on your church contributions over the past 12 months.
Most churches on Saturdays in the summer have 2 weddings, often 3. So a typical Saturday's wedding income would be upwards of a thousand dollars. Shoot & burn money, but without the work.
