Anyone tried the Xsi/450D with some nice alt glass? Comparing some sample pics, the sensor looks like a smoker. Nice color and gorgeous detail - looks like a VERY thin AA filter.
At first I thought dpreviews rather blunt comments (I paraphrase) about the image detail from the XSi 'blowing the doors off' the 40D as hyperbole, but looking at comparable shots from various sites like DPR and imaging-resource.com, they may be on to something. Comparing shots, the XSi is the clear winner in detail capture and clarity - for app. $800 out the door.
I was actually looking into getting the XSi so I could use some of my Zeiss/OM gear.... but with 5D prices hitting a new low, was contemplating getting it instead. Of course, the $1000 price difference is not small, but the XSi does seem to offer quite a bit for the $$$'s.
Decisions..... buy the XSi now or wait until the next rebate season when the prices will be down and Canon will knock off $100 more or buy the 5D now and get a really good body for a very decent deal - either way, the legacy glass gets a good body.
Pascal. I'd e tempted to get the XSi now, shoot with it and whenever the 5D2 ?? comes out, pick up a clean 5D Mk1 when the wave of folks upgrading starts.
S23 - thoughts on the camera overall? How do you find manual focus?
Well, I am finally putting my one week old 450D thru some testing. I got my 50mm Summicron (local LA) and 28 Elmarit (Leica, NJ) back from CLAs on the same day! Because the 28 Elmarit has the floating elements, I hoped the 3mm thick adapter gave correct infinity focus, and it does perfectly.
I had milled the adapter thickness down a bit for the 50 Summicron to achieve infinity focus. and THEN sent it for CLA. Upon receiving it back and properly adjusted for the Leica register, it focused past infinity. I found out how to adjust it myself and it was very easy to do in 10 minutes. The principle is the same as with the C/Y lenses.
I am very impressed with the 450D, weighing about a pound. The Elmarit weights almost as much, the combo of which is comparable in some ways to that ideal Leica M8 I always wanted...
The DPReview says it best, but there are so many improvements over the 400D that it really increases usability. My only contention is the focusing issue with MF lenses, which I will never be satisfied. I got my Epson RD-1 rangefinder system pretty accurate, but if I focused on the center of the frame, then recomposed that point to the corner or field, focus would be off. This is the case with a Canon crop camera as well, as I use the center focus point for its accuracy.
What I would really like to try on this camera is a focusing screen of just microprisms and no split image. I would sacrifice clarity/blurryness of image for a more accurate focus point.
I tried out the 450D yesterday! hang on, I must have mixed up my 1dsmk3 images with the ones from the 450D? Oh no, the file size is smaller so they must be from the 450.
With the kit lens(for £30 extra why not) it is a good camera and I will have a problem keeping my wife away from it.
Tried my contax lenses out on it and the exposure wants some adjusting and to be quite honest without the split image screen of my 1 series focussing on anything other than infinty is more of a problem. The viewfinder is very bright (very bright) the whole package is really a step up on any previous entry level Canon I`ve ever used. Yeh, it`s small, it`s made of plastic, it wont last for years and years but the feature set and in particular the IQ is gonna make this camera a big seller.
I did a tripod test against the 1dsmk3 with the 70-200 f4IS lens on and I really am amazed at the IQ.(raw) I`m not saying it`s a better camera obviously but I tell you what, it will easily take the place of my full kit when travelling light and still produce image good enough for publications. My 10-22 is starting to show that it can`t quite resolve what the sensor can. I didn`t do any fancy tests, just moved the camera closer for the 1 series shots. It`s true that the mk3 would need more sharpening to match the 450d`s 100% out of the camera and there is no doubt that at the end of the day the mk3 files will hold together better but I am very impressed. I asked my wife to pick the mk3 image out of two on screen ( a 27 " monitor) and she picked the 450 image!!
Suppose I will wake up in the morning and see the pitfalls (I will won`t I?)
I was more impressed with Xsi than 1DMKIII in terms of image quality improvement over the old models.
As far as MF goes, I have compared viewfinder with 1.2X magnifier and LiveView and I found LiveView really works well here for macro with higher shutter speed. Lower shutter speed than 1/60 Sec, the viewfinder works better. This is especially true and it is even more evident when you use longer lens.
The ISO noise is non issue at ISO 1600.
As far as 5D2 vs XSi goes, there are two different objectives here. Xsi can go anywhere without carrying a brick : )
I had gotten the 450D as a '1.6X converter' on my tele lens. With the 2 kit lens (18-55 and 55-250mm IS) it also doubles up as a lightweight alternative.
These images are taken with 55-250mm + 450D at ISO 1600 in camera. IN post processing, they are then pushed up another 1 - 2 stops.
My friend brought over his Xsi for me to look at, since he's new with DSLRs.
When he walked in, he said, "I like the camera, but the images are a little soft."
I said, "It's not the camera." He smiled, and said "okay."
We tried the 18-55 IS kit lens, and the results were...eh. For some reason, I really sucked with that lens, or maybe it's the other way around. I didn't really bother with the kit lens that much.
Then I put on my Canon 50 1.4, and he was blown away with the results, shooting at f/2.8 and smaller. I didn't try any alternatives though. Could've slapped on my Zeiss 28mm or 35-70, but didn't have time. I look forward to later.
I think the viewfinder is better than my old 20D. It's hard to compare viewfinders, going back and forth between cameras, but I think I liked the Xsi VF much better.
Overall, I fell in love with the Xsi in about 30 minutes.
Mike - The typo may be the case, but it prompted me to download the raw (converted) test shots from the XSi and 40D as well as the 30D, D300, etc from DPR and imaging-resource.com.
The quote might as well apply to the 40D. The XSi does blow the 30D/40D/D300 away re: detail captured - again likely due to a thinner than average AA filter.
Pascal - the XSi has a weaker AA filter than the 40D, as does the 5D. The weakest AA filters in the Canon line belong to the:
1D Mk1, 1Ds Mk1, 5D and now it appears the XSi. The 1D2 series are considered the most robust. 1D3 have no idea, The 20D, 30D and 1Ds2 fall somewhere in between - but closer to the 5D than the 1D2. The 1Ds3 is reputed to have a thicker than average one. Why it varies so much among cameras (even with similar pixel counts) is anyone's guess.
Now, in case anyone gets themselves in an uproar, I've owned the 1Ds Mk1, 1D2, 5D, 30D and now shoot with the 1Ds2. The opinion comes from experience shooting CZ, Leica & Hassy glass on all of the preceding.
Mike V wrote:
dpreview compared the XSi to the 400D, not the 40D.
There is a reference to the 40D on the conclusion page, but it is a typo.
It is meant to read 400D.
It's not a typo. The 40D was explicitly compared to the 450D in the resolution comparisons page, which came right before the conclusions page. The first day the review was up, the reviewer spent a lot of effort correcting factual and typographic errors by reading user feedback. The 40D comment was not "corrected" because it wasn't a mistake..
For the record, he never said the 450d image quality was "better" than the 40d. What he said was:
The new sensor is superb, and from a resolution point of view puts the EOS 40D to shame without losing any of the high ISO performance that has been Canon's trump card for so long.
There's little to debate here. The 450d sensor has 2 million more pixels, and the anti-alias filter is the thinnest canon has ever used in any dSLR. DPR's test results show the 12MP 450D matching the absolute resolution of the 14MP Sony A350, and far exceeding the 40D's:
Here are the links to two images 1x1dsmk3 and 1x 450D
They are not scientific, I just repositioned the 1dsmk3 on the tripod to get roughly the same view point, exposure slightly different. As I say, they are not scientific I think worth a look. From what I`m seeing you do need a good lens to bring out the best in both cameras. It`s been raining here for a few days so haven`t had much chance to walk a bout.
I`d like to hear you views. (you`ll need the latest ACR to view the 450 image.)
Conner999 wrote:
The 1Ds3 is reputed to have a thicker than average one. Why it varies so much among cameras (even with similar pixel counts) is anyone's guess.
I currently shoot with 1Ds3 and 5D. I see absolutely no difference in required sharpening between these two cameras when each is used with my best lenses. I do see a difference in required sharpening when each is used with a lesser lens. This suggests that their AA filters are in proportion to their pixel pitches. My guess is that people are blaming the camera for the fact that it is exposing the resolution limits of their lenses. The 1Ds3 has a pitch of 6.4 microns, whereas the 5D's is 8.2. The 450D, at 5.7 micron is going to be slightly more demanding on a lens's crop area than the 1Ds3.
brainiac wrote:
The 450D, at 5.7 micron is going to be slightly more demanding on a lens's crop area than the 1Ds3.
...and BTW, this is off-topic but if Canon were to produce an answer to Sony's α900, a full-frame version of the 450D's sensor would be a 26.5 megapixel camera.
