Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

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Savas K
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p.2 #1 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

That's colossal!

May 14, 2008 at 03:06 AM

louis fusco
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p.2 #2 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

this thread really is fascinating!

Edited on May 14, 2008 at 01:06 PM

May 14, 2008 at 01:05 PM

carlsbadbum
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p.2 #3 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

BigBlueDodge wrote:

In my state, ANY citizen can keep a loaded firearm in their vehicle, license or not

Luck you. I live in the People's Republic of California, you can't get a conceal permit unless you are real important person. So the rest of the average joe's lives are not that important, we are suppose to use our cell phone to call 911 when we need help. And hopefully they get there in time to help and not show up 10 minutes later to i.d. your bloody body.

May 14, 2008 at 05:09 PM

trebuchet
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p.2 #4 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Don't you mean "hope they get there in time to FIND your bloody body"

The police aren't here to protect individual life, just maintain general order.
(I will step down from the soapbox now)

May 14, 2008 at 05:38 PM

mbree
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p.2 #5 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

I will echo what a few others have said here...I believe you need to keep the firearm on your body and under your control. There are a number of alternative carry options when a standard IWB holster will not suffice.

The fanny pack was mentioned and is viable when shooting with a camera as most folks will believe it is part of your equipment. I have used this method on a number of occasions.

The holstered pocket pistol, as mentioned, is a great way to go as well, but be sure to practice with an empty gun until you are comfortable with the draw and with the carry of it.

You can go to a more deep concealment option, like Thunderwear, belly band, or gun shirt, but you will trade off some comfort and speed for the extra concealment.

One option I have not seen suggested in here yet is a variant of the IWB that allows for a shirt to be tucked in over the holster. Look at the Milt Sparks Versa Max II (leather) or the Comp Tac CTAC (Kydex). The Milt Sparks is top of the line and is tough to get, with a wait time of about 6 months when ordering. However, the wait is well worth it. Very versatile holster.

Good luck and stay safe.

- Monte

May 14, 2008 at 05:59 PM

BigBlueDodge
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p.2 #6 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Thanks all for the advice. This has been a really good discussion for the most part.

After hearing your input, I have abandoned my idea of using the bag for storage. Instead, am going to focus more on using a different holster placement, or possibly consider a new gun (I'm really liking the idea of a snub nose revolver and just carrying that in my front pocket. That way, when I'm bending over, laying down, squatting, twisting, whatever I won't risk exposing the firearm.

mbree, the Milt Sparks Versa Max II is actually on my buy list. I will be placing my order for one very soon.

Last, to all of those that made comments not relevant to the original posting. Let me state that I do not apologize, or am sorry for the fact that my country allows law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves. I work for a huge, multi-national company, who frequently transfers employees from abroad to live and work in the US. These employees often come from countries where gun ownership is not permitted. I find it amazing at how quickly these individuals will go purchase a firearm once they get into the US. They have been denied that right in their home country, and very quickly take advantage of the right when they come to the US. I am quite confident, that a person would prefer that his government give him a choice to own a firearm (whether he chooses to or not), rather than the government not giving him a choice at.

Edited on May 14, 2008 at 08:10 PM

May 14, 2008 at 07:54 PM

BigBlueDodge
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p.2 #7 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

DIS Ottawa wrote:
If you live in a place that is so dangerous that you feel you must carry a gun, maybe you should move.

Ha, what world do you live in? I hate to break it to you, but danger lurks everywhere, even in Ottawa. What I carry is irrelevant, if there is a possibility of danger, I carry something to protect myself. If I'm in Ottawa, then it's a knife and if I'm in the US, it's a gun. I use the tool that the government permits me to use.

DIS Ottawa wrote:
On the other hand, if people didn't carry guns perhaps their society wouldn't be so violent and dangerous.

Not true. If a country has a problem with child pornography being circulated, do you say it is because the people are allowed to have cameras? If a country has many fatalities due to car wrecks, do you outlaw the cars? The tools are not the problem, it's the people behind them. Take a way the tool, and the people will just find another tool and improperly use it. It's a never ending game.

DIS Ottawa wrote:And this is a photography forum - personally I find this topic inappropriate.

Actually, this topic is most appropriate. Based on the feedback posted thus far, this is something that others have dealt with in the past. If this topic was inappropriate, no one would have posted feedback. This topic is not about whether it's right or wrong to carry a gun. This topic was about camera bags being used to conceal a gun. I think your emotional feelings are skewing what the topic is really about. I don't care what you think about me carrying a gun. I do care what you think would be a good bag to potentially conceal it in? I'm listening to your suggestion.

Edited on May 14, 2008 at 09:23 PM

May 14, 2008 at 09:14 PM

carlsbadbum
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p.2 #8 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

BigBlueDodge wrote:
.....my country allows law abiding citizens the right to protect themselves.

What country is that? I'm a law abiding citizen, and they still denied my rights. If Obama wins get ready to kiss your permit goodbye.

May 14, 2008 at 10:26 PM

mbyoungs
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p.2 #9 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Another vote for a waist pack. I use a Bianchi Top Secret II 4410 for daily carry, (large 9MM) Velcro hidden compartment 2 other pockets to carry odds and ends in.
No one has ever looked twice at me.
Mike

May 15, 2008 at 12:06 AM

Savas K
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p.2 #10 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Real questions is: is your camera arm the same as you gun arm? What to do when trouble strikes, drop the camera and go for the gun? Or do you train your weak arm to draw and fire?

May 15, 2008 at 02:13 AM

arusher
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p.2 #11 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Savas K wrote:
Real questions is: is your camera arm the same as you gun arm? What to do when trouble strikes, drop the camera and go for the gun? Or do you train your weak arm to draw and fire?

Thats what the neck strap is for, so your camera won't hit the ground if you have to let go of it to draw.

Edited on May 15, 2008 at 04:01 AM

May 15, 2008 at 04:00 AM

Bentzen
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p.2 #12 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

trebuchet wrote:
Get a J-frame S&W wheelgun and a Kramer pocket holster. ( I have the S&W 442)

5 shots of 158gr JHP .38 +p and a speedloader with another 5 rounds should get you away from any threat.

I call it my American Express card. I don't leave home without it.

It looks like a wallet when sitting in my front pocket.

I have the same set up. I sent mine to Jack Wiegand to have an action job done and install a full length ejector rod onto it.

That said, I have to agree with those that say keep the firearm close to you and independant of the camera bag. If the sheet hits the fan the gun and your life are both way more important than your camera gear. With all due respect.

I usually carry open here in Washington state (while backpacking) when I do have to go concealed I carry my Smith 442/Ruger SP101/Glock 27 in a belt pouch attached to my waste belt. The arm MUST be accessible quickly at all times.

Tom

May 15, 2008 at 10:16 AM

Nill Toulme
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p.2 #13 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

BigBlueDodge wrote:
... These employees often come from countries where gun ownership is not permitted. I find it amazing at how quickly these individuals will go purchase a firearm once they get into the US. They have been denied that right in their home country, and very quickly take advantage of the right when they come to the US. ...

Heh... or just maybe it's because, suddenly finding themselves in a country where a lot of people are running around armed, they feel the need. ;-)

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net

Edited on May 15, 2008 at 02:06 PM

May 15, 2008 at 02:05 PM

bdickers
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p.2 #14 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

A small fanny pack worn in front with a .357 Sig Glock Compact is my companion in the city or the woods. You are responsible for defending yourself and your property. The media is filled with stories of those who have given this responsibility over to others...

May 15, 2008 at 02:28 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.2 #15 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Have you considered sewing a transponder into your camera/gun bag like in the movie "No Country for Old Men"? The thieves would be easy to find, and a handgun would be a lot more easily concealed than Chirgurh's captive bolt pistol. Any right action would only underscore that this country is 'no place for young thieves'. Kidding.

Actually, this topic is most appropriate. Based on the feedback posted thus far, this is something that others have dealt with in the past. If this topic was inappropriate, no one would have posted feedback. This topic is not about whether it's right or wrong to carry a gun. This topic was about camera bags being used to conceal a gun. I think your emotional feelings are skewing what the topic is really about. I don't care what you think about me carrying a gun. I do care what you think would be a good bag to potentially conceal it in? I'm listening to your suggestion.

No, Big Blue, it is still inappropriate even though you try to make it just about a camera bag. If you need others to pick out a camera bag for you that's one thing, but to qualify a bag or, as eventually discussed here, a system to conceal a deadly weapon it's a totally different topic. It's one of those things you should figure out for yourself, or at least Google it. The reason you are getting some negative feedback is because it involves an alternative use for a camera bag - essentially gun concealment and it's posted on a camera forum.

May 15, 2008 at 05:36 PM

mbree
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p.2 #16 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Barry Pehlman wrote:
No, Big Blue, it is still inappropriate even though you try to make it just about a camera bag. If you need others to pick out a camera bag for you that's one thing, but to qualify a bag or, as eventually discussed here, a system to conceal a deadly weapon it's a totally different topic. It's one of those things you should figure out for yourself, or at least Google it. The reason you are getting some negative feedback is because it involves an alternative use for a camera bag - essentially gun concealment and it's posted on a camera forum.

Using that logic would take out a good bit of the very interesting discussions in this forum. Following your logic would mean the posts discussing how to retrofit a perfectly good backpack NOT made for photographic equipment into a pack for hiking with photo equipment would be inappropriate. I mean, it's a hiking pack and has nothing to do with photography. Thou shalt not mix.

And those going on trips and looking for travel and site suggestions must be pretty tough to read too. That's travel and has nothing to do with actually using your equipment, it is just about how to get there...so these must be banned as well.

Please, get over your fear or just simply skip the topic.

May 15, 2008 at 06:46 PM

Thats Fresh
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p.2 #17 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

i usually dont carry the concealed with the camera stuff. its left in the car. but some instances, the glock 36 fits easily where my 2nd body would go in any of my bags

May 15, 2008 at 06:51 PM

Barry Pehlman
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p.2 #18 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Mbree wrote: Using that logic would take out a good bit of the very interesting discussions in this forum. Following your logic would mean the posts discussing how to retrofit a perfectly good backpack NOT made for photographic equipment into a pack for hiking with photo equipment would be inappropriate. I mean, it's a hiking pack and has nothing to do with photography. Thou shalt not mix.

I didn't say the post wasn't interesting, just not the right place to discuss weapon concealment. And using your logic we might as well talk about retrofitting a B&H camera box into a cardboard gun holster. Maybe Paladin Press has a better forum, or book on camera case gun concealment.

May 15, 2008 at 11:39 PM

Rodney O
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p.2 #19 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

The post seems valid to me. I appreciate the information. There have been relatively few negatives, btw. And there have been a number posts by photogs who carry.

In the larger city nearby me, there are around 1.2 murders per day some for things as trivial as a pedal dirt bike and $50 seen withdrawn from an ATM. So you can believe that 7 to 11k $ worth of gear would make a lucrative target. Safety is an issue.

So protection is certainly a good idea. I would bet that there are a good number of photographers out there who are concerned about their safety at different times and in certain locations. A discussion like this should not be prohibitted or interfered with. Rather we should be openly discussing the issues faced and viable solutions.

I would note that one should keep any weapon on your body and not in a camera bag which might be set down. You do not want a weapon to be out of your total control at any time. So a vest with an inside holster and a tummy pouch seem to be two viable carry means.

Edited on May 16, 2008 at 04:33 AM

May 16, 2008 at 04:12 AM

Genes Home
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p.2 #20 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Hi,

As a CCL holder in two states, and long time outdoor photographer, perhaps I could enter this with a moderating opinion, in several parts.

1. I HIGHLY recommend you take a course in the use of deadly force, or pay a couple hours of consulting time to a criminal lawyer for specific advice on this issue. It appears that you are willing to engage in the use of deadly force over the retention of a moderate value of personal property. To my knowledge, no state that allows (either with or without a license) personal carry of firearms allows you to use that firearm or any form of deadly force to retain or protect personal property. The general (and simplified) summary of the law in most states is that only when you can demonstrate fear of bodily harm to you or a person with you can you engage in deadly force. Failure to fully understand the limits and constraints of your state's criminal statutes (as well as those of the states you may visit) could easily land you serious legal trouble (both very expensive and carrying the potential for prison time).

2. From a personal standpoint, If I felt there was a need for same, I would always propose carrying a small personal weapon on my body completely seperate from my photo gear (or any other gear I might have). This would allow me to defend myself without encumbrance or delay from messing with my gear. This is a stress-management scenario and decision, not one of convenience. Unless you practice accessing your firearm in highly stressed situations (ala USPSA or IDPA, and I am deliberately not spelling out the acronyms, if you don't know what they are, you should, so look them up if you are going to carry a firearm), you will never be able to get your hands on it when you really need it to protect yourself -- meaning your firearm and actions at the time will become a greater danger to your well-being than would otherwise be the case (e.g., drop the gear and RUN scenario).

3. For the naysayers, over the last 32 years I have often done photo work in the U.S. where I was not comfortable without a firearm on my person (Southern Arizona, Big Bend country of Texas and points along the southern boundary, the New Mexico bootheel and border territory), to name a few. The fact that outstanding photo opportunities came mingled with potential threats to my person did not and do not mean that I should give up photography in those areas. It simply meant that I should take appropriate measures to safeguard my life while I was on independent trips and hikes.

Hope this helps.

May 16, 2008 at 04:44 AM

Bentzen
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p.2 #21 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Good advice GH.

May 16, 2008 at 08:07 AM

Barry Pehlman
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p.2 #22 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

I second that. Thank you Mr. Home. The discussion was becoming more Death Wish-like. I would hate to see someone overstep his bounds to protect his equipment and end up shooting a kid, self-defense or not. For me the best hidden weapon is insurance.

May 16, 2008 at 12:25 PM

trebuchet
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p.2 #23 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

My gun isn't there to protect my camera or my gear. It is there to protect me and/or my loved ones.

My camera and gear is insured against damage, theft, etc... If you want it, take it.

You won't catch me looking for trouble or going into areas where I might be in harms way (intenionally anyway).

Choosing to get a permit, and carry a concealed handgun carries a HUGE responsibility. It requires maturity, ethics, common sense, and above all TRAINING.

Col. Jeff Cooper (rip) had a great quote.

“Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”

May 16, 2008 at 03:26 PM

SmegHead
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p.2 #24 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

Untill now I only carried a gun when I went out in the woods when I knew I had a chance of coming across something that may want to eat me. I live in Ottawa in Canada but travel up pretty far north into the boonies at times. I had never really thought of carrying protection while in the city though. Not a day or two after I first commented on this thread though a co-worker of mine was jumped and robbed by a group of thugs at 11pm on Rideau St, which for those of you not from the area is one of the two "main" streets in Ottawa, in fact he was jumped not 30 seconds away from the parliament buildings in a well lit and at 11pm still well populated area. This is actually an area I've been many times with all my gear on me with not the slightest fear of being assaulted.

I'm seriously considering carrying something to protect myself. These guys jumped and beat up my friend first.. stole his stuff after.. he wasn't even given the "Your money or your life" chance.. he just got the crap kicked out of him. Since I'm in Canada a gun is out.. I dont think I'd want to carry one anyway.. I don't have anything against them obviously, but I'm used to shooting things I plan to eat, I'm afraid I'd hesitate pointing a gun at a person and then having a gun on me would be a liability not a help. I've got a collapsible baton though and I don't really have a problem whacking some one who plans to do the same to me. Any canucks know the legality of collapsible baton's in canada? I picked it up a while ago for camping.. it's suprisingly multipurpose, hammer, pry bar, poking things you dont want to touch

but I've never carried it in an urban area.

Edited on May 16, 2008 at 04:00 PM

May 16, 2008 at 03:59 PM

SmegHead
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p.2 #25 · Bag for Camera & Gun - Wait, hear me out!

never mind... they're illegal to carry as they're considered concealed.. guess it stays in my camping pack

May 16, 2008 at 04:05 PM


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