70-200 F4 IS bad batch

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Ray DeBosch
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p.2 #1 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

This one was shot a close distance, @200mm F4...no sharpening done...

May 02, 2008 at 05:27 PM

michael49
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p.2 #2 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Jammy Straub wrote:
It was determined right after the lens came out by a few members on here that the lens has a design characteristic that it's going to suffer from aberrations at MFD and 200mm's even in perfect copies of the lens.....
:

That was my understanding as well.

I saw a comparison on POTN between the 70-200 f4 IS with the 70-300 IS, both at MFD and the 70-300 was much sharper.

Its too bad too because I like to do close-ups with my 70-200, although I've heard that using this lens with ext tubes "gets around" this issue and allows for very good close-ups.

Edited on May 02, 2008 at 06:08 PM

May 02, 2008 at 06:07 PM

Savas K
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p.2 #3 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Forum members at DP review have summed it up that the lens is generally problematic at minimum focus distance at 200mm. A small price to pay for how great it is throughout the rest of the focal range.

May 02, 2008 at 09:22 PM

mendofr
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p.2 #4 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

yauyi. I can totally relate to how you feel as I had a super sharp copy of this lens. I sold it due to lack of action/reach. I bought a new one just a couple of days ago and it's nowhere close to my old copy.

I had it adjusted and calibrated but still not as good as my old copy.

May 03, 2008 at 04:27 AM

freespirit
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p.2 #5 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Those buying new lenses: What is advisable - Are there any simple tests? Do you perform any tests as soon as the lens is in your possession?

One way would be to test your new 70-200 with a friend who knows they have a good copy and do a shot by shot comparison

Edited on May 03, 2008 at 09:07 AM

May 03, 2008 at 09:07 AM

Daan B
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p.2 #6 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

freespirit wrote:
Those buying new lenses: What is advisable - Are there any simple tests? Do you perform any tests as soon as the lens is in your possession?

One way would be to test your new 70-200 with a friend who knows they have a good copy and do a shot by shot comparison

Testing for this particular "issue" is simple... Set lens at 200mm, 1/500sec (just to be sure) and shoot something at it's MFD. Do the same thing at 135mm and compare results.

May 03, 2008 at 09:28 AM

freespirit
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p.2 #7 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Daan B wrote:
freespirit wrote:
Those buying new lenses: What is advisable - Are there any simple tests? Do you perform any tests as soon as the lens is in your possession?

One way would be to test your new 70-200 with a friend who knows they have a good copy and do a shot by shot comparison

Testing for this particular "issue" is simple... Set lens at 200mm, 1/500sec (just to be sure) and shoot something at it's MFD. Do the same thing at 135mm and compare results.

Thank you Daan for the simple test. The extremes are that you may end up with an excellent sharp copy or a very poor one. And in the middle you may have a soft mediocre lens. Sometimes when returned the manufacturer could just say its within specification!

Bearing in mind that you would want to keep your lens investment for many years, are there any other "scientific" or independent of the manufacturer or professional tests?

May 03, 2008 at 09:40 AM

Daan B
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p.2 #8 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

freespirit wrote:
Thank you Daan for the simple test. The extremes are that you may end up with an excellent sharp copy or a very poor one. And in the middle you may have a soft mediocre lens. Sometimes when returned the manufacturer could just say its within specification!

Bearing in mind that you would want to keep your lens investment for many years, are there any other "scientific" or independent of the manufacturer or professional tests?

As posted before in a simiair thread:

There is a difference between a lens being unsharp and not calibrated properly. Of course, when a lens isn't properly calibrated it appears to be unsharp. To get an idea how sharp your lens really is, you should do some tests by focusing manually. This way you rule out any possible AF problems. To test if the AF of your lens is calibrated properly, try this test: http://www.focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf

May 03, 2008 at 09:49 AM

freespirit
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p.2 #9 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Daan B wrote:
freespirit wrote:
Thank you Daan for the simple test. The extremes are that you may end up with an excellent sharp copy or a very poor one. And in the middle you may have a soft mediocre lens. Sometimes when returned the manufacturer could just say its within specification!

Bearing in mind that you would want to keep your lens investment for many years, are there any other "scientific" or independent of the manufacturer or professional tests?

As posted before in a simiair thread:

There is a difference between a lens being unsharp and not calibrated properly. Of course, when a lens isn't properly calibrated it appears to be unsharp. To get an idea how sharp your lens really is, you should do some tests by focusing manually. This way you rule out any possible AF problems. To test if the AF of your lens is calibrated properly, try this test: http://www.focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf

Thank you Daan for this test also.
Not that many of us would be keen to pay for a technically renowned optical lab to test our brand new 70-200 - but are there labs in Netherlands or UK available to us which can pinpoint lens quality problems.

Edited on May 03, 2008 at 11:48 AM

May 03, 2008 at 11:41 AM

mfurman
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p.2 #10 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Daan B:
Testing for this particular "issue" is simple... Set lens at 200mm, 1/500sec (just to be sure) and shoot something at it's MFD. Do the same thing at 135mm and compare results.

It is actually as simple as this but what I would like to understand (after looking at this problem for year) if there are really copies of this lens that are sharp at 200 mm and MFD and how these lenses perform at 70 mm (for instance).

May 03, 2008 at 12:25 PM

Daan B
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p.2 #11 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

freespirit wrote:
Thank you Daan for this test also.
Not that many of us would be keen to pay for a technically renowned optical lab to test our brand new 70-200 - but are there labs in Netherlands or UK available to us which can pinpoint lens quality problems.

ETB is a company that does all the (warranty) repairs for Canon here in the Netherlands. I always go there. I guess you can always send/bring your lens to Canon Service UK if you don't trust it.

May 03, 2008 at 01:28 PM

J.D.
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p.2 #12 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

yauyi wrote:
PetKal wrote:
Right...those old shots are very good, Yauyi.
It seems that even a zoom as well regarded as the 70-200 f/4 IS is vulnerable to the copy-to-copy variation plague.

yes i really missed the old one .

Here is the new one, 200mm f/4.0 somewhere around 4~5ft away:
resized:

100% crop:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

f/5.6~f/8.0 also exhibit similar behavior. at MFD mine is also backfocus a bit too.

Normally I'd jump on this and say "get it calibrated" but there seems to be more to it than that, for sure. I doubt very much this is a calibration issue. The whole picture has a slightly milky look to it. In the 100% crop the resolution seems ever so slightly better on the board below the caterpillar. It reminds me of a problem I had with my ENG lens a few years ago when the doubler became impossible to focus. Dismantling it revealed an oily film over the surface of the doubler block. To this day I have no idea how it got there.

It also reminds me of the EF 135 soft focus lens which achieves its effect by subtle adjustments of spherical aberration. I can't imagine how this would happen in such a well established lens but maybe there's a mechanical problem inside. Perhaps the zoom elements are not properly positioned.

I'm guessing.

Edited on May 03, 2008 at 02:15 PM

May 03, 2008 at 02:14 PM

Dawei Ye
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p.2 #13 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Yes at MFD 200mm wide open even the area in dof is still soft. Stopped down a lot, there tends to be sharper areas which on my lens seem far behind the focal point

I still don't see any 200mm MFD shots that are critically sharp. Still nobody has been able to produce something at 200mm MFD that is sharp, so I do fully agree that this is a design issue rather than copy to copy variation.

May 03, 2008 at 03:12 PM

tom s
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p.2 #14 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Get primes (135 2, 200 2.8) if you're into close-up or portrait photography.
70-200 f/4 IS is more of landscape lens.

Edited on May 03, 2008 at 06:28 PM

May 03, 2008 at 06:28 PM

mfurman
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p.2 #15 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

tom s: 70-200 f/4 IS is more of landscape lens.

Not necessarily so:

could go on...

Edited on May 03, 2008 at 06:36 PM

May 03, 2008 at 06:34 PM

Daan B
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p.2 #16 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

tom s wrote:
Get primes (135 2, 200 2.8) if you're into close-up or portrait photography.
70-200 f/4 IS is more of landscape lens.

I use it for close-up portraits (100-135mm) all the time with excellent results

May 03, 2008 at 06:41 PM

mendofr
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p.2 #17 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Need your opinion. I'm suspecting that I have a bad copy of this lens.

By looking at the picture below, could you guys tell me if I truly have a bad copy. Thanks a lot.

Late afternoon, 200mm, mfd, f5.6, 1/500 sec handheld.
This image is copyrighted by the owner

May 04, 2008 at 04:37 AM

Daan B
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p.2 #18 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

mendofr wrote:
Need your opinion. I'm suspecting that I have a bad copy of this lens.

By looking at the picture below, could you guys tell me if I truly have a bad copy. Thanks a lot.

Late afternoon, 200mm, mfd, f5.6, 1/500 sec handheld.

Is this a 100% crop? If so, it is not looking bad for a 200mm MFD shot. If not, please post a 100% crop.

May 04, 2008 at 06:00 AM

mendofr
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p.2 #19 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

No. it's as is. Let me see if I can do a 100% crop. Thanks.

May 04, 2008 at 06:08 AM

mendofr
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p.2 #20 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Oh. Oh. I don't know how to do a 100% crop.

May 04, 2008 at 06:12 AM

mendofr
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p.2 #21 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

Not sure if this is 100% crop. I used the trimming tool of Digital Photo Professional and cropped a small section of the flower.

How does this look? Does this mean I have an acceptable copy?

This image is copyrighted by the owner

May 04, 2008 at 06:17 AM

Daan B
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p.2 #22 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

I get similair results with my copy. Looks OK to me for 200mm MFD. A little USM and it looks very sharp

May 04, 2008 at 06:29 AM

mendofr
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p.2 #23 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

very cool. now I don't feel as badly as before. thanks for your opinion. i will send this lens to canon factory anyway as I noticed some back focusing issues in my other shots.

May 04, 2008 at 06:34 AM

Daan B
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p.2 #24 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

mendofr wrote:
very cool. now I don't feel as badly as before. thanks for your opinion. i will send this lens to canon factory anyway as I noticed some back focusing issues in my other shots.

Are the back focusing issues at 200 MFD to about 3 meters?

In such a flower shot AF easily can compensate/cover up any back or front focusing issues.

My copy has a back focus at 200mm MFD to 3 meters. From 3 meters to infinity the back focus is gone. I had it checked by Canon Service. They told me they could let the lens focus properly at 200mm MFD. But that most certainly would mean a decrease in performance on other FL's / focus distances. I believe that the mis focus you are experiencing is part of the way the lens was designed.

Try if you can get better reults by focusing manually at 200 MFD with flat test surfaces (like a newspaper on a wall or something).

Edited on May 04, 2008 at 06:44 AM

May 04, 2008 at 06:42 AM

yauyi
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p.2 #25 · 70-200 F4 IS bad batch

I was about to send this lens back for a replacement or refund on Monday, but decided to test it in the field again, I did not even bother to try MFD at 200mm knowing it sucks anyway, but the performance in any other focal range is pretty darn good. I believe this one is around 12ft

200mm 1/250s @F4.0 :
Resized:

100% crop:

Converted from RAW to JPG with DPP, Default "Standard" picture style.

Color reproduction, contrast, and bokeh quality of this lens is very nice, I might just keep it and deal with the MFD problem at 200mm.

I ran a series of 135mm and 200mm test from f/4.0 to f/8.0 comparing this lens to my 100-400L in a control environment, test subject measured at 9ft. if anybody interested you can see it here:
http://www.pbase.com/yauyi/lens_test

Edited on May 04, 2008 at 07:34 AM

May 04, 2008 at 07:15 AM


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