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Archive 2008 · concert photography help

waynemac
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p.1 #1 · concert photography help


Hi,Newbie here,I take alot of live music shots, usually in clubs and have been struggling with ISO,filters,lenses etc.,can't seem to find the right combination and consistency from one shot to the next.....recently upgraded from an XT to a 40D and new lenses both Sigma 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8.Still have a Canon 50mm f1.8 as well.I 'd love to find the right combination of things to consistantly capture great shots with people moving,lights constantly changin etc.Can anyone help ?
Thanks in advance. GREAT SITE BY THE WAY!



Mar 28, 2008 at 06:38 AM
invalid2
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p.1 #2 · concert photography help


My experience is more towards classical performances, but I think that you should consider setting the white balance and exposure manually to increase the consistency before any postprocessing.


Mar 28, 2008 at 07:32 AM
EltonTeng
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p.1 #3 · concert photography help


What seems to be the problem? Are the colors off? Are the people not in focus?

It would be helpful to see some examples of issues. You can link to your images to illustrate the problem(s).



Mar 28, 2008 at 09:38 AM
claudermilk
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p.1 #4 · concert photography help


Challenging subject to shoot. What I've found works well in my theater shoots is setting WB to Kelvin at 3200K (about what the un-gelled lights are at), ISO to 3200, metering to center-weighted (all my 20D offers, but I'd probably stick with that even if spot were available). Run the camera in Av so you can hold the lenses wide open & keep an eye on the shutter speeds, you should be able to stop down as far as f4 from time to time.


Mar 28, 2008 at 10:27 AM
Eric Gottesman
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p.1 #5 · concert photography help


For color, shoot in RAW and you can fix white balance later. Custom WB would probably be hard with colorful lights constantly changing in a show.

-Eric



Mar 28, 2008 at 10:29 AM
frank kayser
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p.1 #6 · concert photography help


I agree with EltonTang - without more specific information...

I will give you my "general formula" for shooting "available light" at concerts/shows...

Determine your own tolerance for image noise - at which ISO does noise become unacceptable, or rather, what ISO can you stand. Of course, that is dependent on your personal taste, and your post-processing drill - whether you use something like Neat Image or Noise Ninja, for example.

Set your camera to the highest ISO you can stand. That will give you the most latitude in aperture and shutter speed.

Shoot RAW. That will allow you to make the most adjustments to color balance, and if need be, exposure after-the-fact. Stage lighting is neither "normal" nor consistent in color or intensity. Any type of white balance shooting, in my opinion, is fruitless. In post processing, set the scene to what you remember the best. If you attempt to neutralize skin tones, or to 18% grey, the scene will start looking very odd, indeed.

The dynamic range on stage is often higher than the camera can capture. RAW will also give you the best highlight and shadow recovery, if needed.

Most of the time, I find myself shooting wide open, or nearly so, just to keep the shutter speed up. If your lenses can stand it, shoot wide open - if not, find out where you find the lens to be acceptably sharp, combined with enough DOF for the shot you envision.

So that means, shooting in Aperture Priority mode - and let the shutter speed fall where it may. Watch it in the viewfinder -

Imagine your shot, and crop in-camera as close to that vision as you dare. any after-the-fact cropping will just increase noise.

Know your composition. Anticipate. If your plan is to take a shot, and crop it later into something wonderful, it ain't going to happen. (none of us here on FM do that, do we? ) Plan your shot, and execute. Timing is critical.

Know what is important in the shot - and make sure that is exposed as well as you can. Blown-out details are a no-no. But don't be too conservative, either - lightening the photo in post - even RAW - will dramaitcally increase noise. Reading the histogram is tricky - lights and specular highlights will seem to indicate a lot of overexposure. Fakery, fakery, fakery! Same thing - there is so much black - non-detail black, the histogram will be climbing the left side. Don't worry too much. The histogram will look like a big smile with one tooth on the bottom - that "tooth" is probably your subject exposure - look at that. Expose for that and then...

Chimp early and often. That is, look at the LCD often to judge exposure of the picture. A learned skill, and tricky because of where the LCD brightness is set. Practice, Practice, Practice.

Again, crop in the viewfinder as close as you dare. The less black background, and the less bright light, the more reliable (or should I say readable) the histogram becomes.

If you choose to spot meter. know EXACTLY how that works, or you will be even farther off than if you use Evaluative and exposure compensation.

If you possibly can, use a tripod, or at least a monopod. Shutter speeds are usually quite borderline.

Expect a lot of throw-aways - shaking, subject moving, microphone in the face, whatever. Experience is key - shoot as many gigs as you can - critically evaluate what went wrong, what was right - make a mental note of what to avoid, and what that you did right. Do more of the latter.

That's all I have - seeing the pictures or not.

Now, if you can use flash, that is another thing all together. I'll let someone else handle that one...

Practice! Evaluate!

frank

Edited on Mar 28, 2008 at 10:57 AM



Mar 28, 2008 at 10:50 AM
waynemac
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p.1 #7 · concert photography help


Thanks so much for your help,a nice welcome for me to this fantastic site....to answer a couple of questions,the problem I always have is with blurred images.I haven't been to a gig yet with my 40d,so I have been stuck at an ISO of 1600 with my XT ,I have always used AV mode and have not used Raw before either.After some more research into past photos,I noticed shutter speeds from 1/8 to 1/500.The images are best at 1/500 and at 1/100 -1/80 they really go to hell and get worse to the 1/8.As far as flash goes,yes at times I am able to use it but I don't overdo it so as not to become a pain for the band or the audience.Thanks again and if anyone else has any thoughts I'd be glad to have them.


Mar 30, 2008 at 09:31 PM
waynemac
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p.1 #8 · concert photography help


One thing I didn't mention was that even at 1/500,the sharpness is somewhat lacking.Thanks,Wayne


Mar 30, 2008 at 09:33 PM
EltonTeng
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p.1 #9 · concert photography help


With indoor concerts and no flash allowed, you're better off shooting Tv priority at around 1/125 (as fast as possible) to stop motion, or manual settings if the lighting is consistent (though this is not common.)

Having said that, Frank gave you a lot of great advices. The link below is an older article from the film days but the principles are still sound IMO:

Photo.Net article on concert photography



Mar 30, 2008 at 11:45 PM
frank kayser
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p.1 #10 · concert photography help


Wayne,

Do check out Elton's link.

As far as blurry pictures... As I said, expect a lot of throw-aways.

You mentioned shutter speed 1/8 to 1/500 - sounds about right.
Let's first look at the "rule of thumb" for hand-holdability. That "rule" states that one can expect to handhold a shot at a given shutter speed that is related to the focal length of a lens. The recommended minimum shutter speed would be 1/focal length of the lens - so if you were shooting a 100 mm lens, the rule says not to hand hold at a shutter speed of 1/100 of a second. If you were shooting a 28mm lens, the rule says you could use a shutter speed as slow as 1/30 of a second.

Most concerts are shot with some type of telephoto - somewhere between 85mm and 200mm. So according to the rule, you shouldn't be shooting any slower than 1/85 second for the one, and 1/200 second for the other. A long way from 1/8 second!

The rule of thumb is based on what we deem acceptable sharpness in a normal print - Take the print larger, and you will need a faster shutter speed. All is based on the "Circle of Confusion" (one of my favorite terms in photography!). Bob Askins has many articles on the subject of sharpness, and shutter speed - look up the terms on www.bobaskins.com - great stuff there.

Even if you were to use a tripod, for example, you may still experience blur at 1/8 second - but that could easily be your subject moving! One can handhold at lower speeds than the rule of thumb - it takes a very good technique for holding and bracing. The DSLR adds another thing one must overcome - the mirror slapping up and down - the type of motion that it is is seen in pictures taken between 1/30 of a second down to about 1/2 second - (a tidbit to remember for macro photography, too) So not only are you shaking, your subject moving, and the camera is giving you the blues too.

I respectfully disagree with Elton, setting the shutter speed to 1/125 - either you will be locked out of taking the picture at all, or the picture will be very underexposed if the lens can't open up any more.

So the last thing I'll address here, is blur even with 1/500 second - first, are any shots sharp? How about during the day? Normal light? A lens is geberally at its worst when wide open - it will have more visible defects, a more shallow depth-of-fiels that will put the autofocus to the test. Most lenses will be sharper when stopped down a stop or two - but that means the shutter needs to be open even longer to make up for the light lost due to the lens being stopped down. As the lens is stopped down, every lens will have greater depth-of-field, thus tolerating a less-than-perfect autofocus hit.

The key here is there are compromises - and low light, and active performers on stage, combined with telephoto needs make for a tough set. Find someone to help you with holding your camera - how to lock it in place. Practice, practice, practice. For some, available light is very tough - others find other types of photograaphy tougher - i.e., wildlife, or birds on flight.
e musician
Just remember, your camera takes neither good or bad photographs - you do. Eqipment can help some, but it is technique and practice that will be the difference between good and bad shots. An instrument does not make the musician - any more than a camera makes a photographer.

Final note - shooting RAW is just like shooting JPEG - the difference is in post processing - you may wish to lurk about that forum for a while - read a lot of the old posts there - a lot of your questions can be answered there - there is also a lot of PP using Photoshop and/or Lightroom on the web - time to sit down and read there, too.

A new DSLR can be like getting a drink of water from a fire hose - so much so fast. Concerts are tough - practice on things not quite so tough and start seeing results there - and apply what you can to concerts.

good luck,
frank




Mar 31, 2008 at 05:44 PM
EltonTeng
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p.1 #11 · concert photography help


I respectfully disagree with Elton, setting the shutter speed to 1/125

Actually, I don't think we're in that much of disagreement. I'd try to set Tv to 1/125 but some times have to go slower.



Mar 31, 2008 at 06:09 PM
waynemac
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p.1 #12 · concert photography help


Thanks so much again,especially Frank for the time it must have taken for your responses.The rule of thumb about shutter/focal length is very interesting.I am anxious to go through my photos again and cross reference the 2 in relation to the sharpness of the images.Some of the images are quite good,alot of throw aways though as you said.Maybe my sharpness expectations are too high,when comparing them to photos taken in better lighting.


Mar 31, 2008 at 09:37 PM
claudermilk
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p.1 #13 · concert photography help


There is a reason I prefer Av--I keep the lens wide open and the shutter speed falls where it may. I keep an eye on it to make sure it's reasonable, but sometimes you have to deal with what you get in the limited lighting available. I'll use the Ev adjustment to tweak exposure as needed & deal with the results in PP; some images come through ok, others end up getting round-filed--but at least there was an opportunity.


Apr 01, 2008 at 11:50 AM
Caleb Williams
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p.1 #14 · concert photography help


Wayne,

Don't worry about throwaways. You might shoot for hours and thousands of images, only to get 7-10 submittable ones. Other times, you might just have a good day and you have too many good images to submit.

In your case, substitute submit with keep.

- Caleb

PS: As mentioned keep practicing.



Apr 01, 2008 at 12:35 PM
Samantha
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p.1 #15 · concert photography help


what i find works best for me (with a 30d) is to use the center focus point only. I also use spot metering most of the time and try to focus near the eyes. I shoot mostly at iso 1600, usually wide open. I seem to get good results with TV mode set to about 100 (or higher if you can get away with it).

i have some photos if you want to check em out at www.concertshots.net



Apr 02, 2008 at 11:18 PM





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