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Archive 2008 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

cogitech
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p.4 #1 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Don Clary wrote:
16-9 says 2mm needs to be shaved. Email Don and ask him, he's done it several times.

Nope, never done it. I've offered, maybe Rick will be my first customer.

Don has not gotten back with me on a time frame that is convenient for him.

I've since replied, one day or less. I serously don't think it will take me 5 minutes. And the cut will be cleaner than the original from Canon. No chips, no grit going everywhere.

I'd say stick with 2mm ...(what's the going rate for a 5D mirror shave?)

I suggested taping the bottom edge of the uncut mirror with black tape, to see how much cut intrudes into the image in the viewfinder. Paul, you'd never compete with my rates: 0 $. If Rick wasn't in a hurry to shoot in Moab, I could trim 1/2 mm or less at a time, many times.

Don,

It isn't really 0 $ if you factor in whatever it will cost Rick to have the mirror removed and re-installed. Also, as someone mentioned, the mirror frame has to be shaved as well...

Edited on Apr 24, 2008 at 10:30 PM

Apr 24, 2008 at 10:27 PM

Don Clary
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p.4 #2 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Quite true about the cost of mirror being removed and re-installed. But this way, no debris in the camera, and the option of completely restoring it to new for later resale. I'd like to remove the mirror myself, but I have no training in camera repair. I'm assuming Rick will send the mirror in the frame and I'll cut both at once. I don't see what cutting the mirror only would accomplish; the frame would still hit the lens.

Apr 24, 2008 at 11:14 PM

cogitech
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p.4 #3 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Don Clary wrote:
Quite true about the cost of mirror being removed and re-installed. But this way, no debris in the camera, and the option of completely restoring it to new for later resale. I'd like to remove the mirror myself, but I have no training in camera repair. I'm assuming Rick will send the mirror in the frame and I'll cut both at once. I don't see what cutting the mirror only would accomplish; the frame would still hit the lens.

Quite right. From what I have heard, though, it is quite difficult (impossible?) to remove the frame assembly without major disassembly of the camera body.

Apr 24, 2008 at 11:42 PM

Conner999
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p.4 #4 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Don't have the 5D in front of me any longer, but looking at my 1ds2 and assuming they are reasonably close in design, I don't know if I'd put money on getting that mirror sub-assembly out with anything resembling ease as Cogi indicates.

As an aside, what some brightspark needs to manufacture is a '5D mirror shave condom/diaphragm' (for lack of a better description).

A rubber/silicone cup the diameter and depth of the 5D mirror housing with a slit in the bottom through which the leading edge of the mirror/frame would JUST slide. Have a rubber lip/ridge on the underside just below the slit. You put the 5D into MLU, push in the cup, released MLU and the mirror comes to rest on the lip and ready to be pushed thru the slit.

Once secure, you trim the mirror back to the point to where it just touches the bottom of the cup (calibrate for a 2mm average shave) and the plastic filings naturally become attached to the rubber and/or are captured by the cup. Hit it with a vacuum, turn the camera upside down and as you slide the cup out, the slit top and bottom act like a squeegee pulling any remaining crap off and the mirror returns to rest position.

A quick wipe of the mirror with a cleaning swab and bolt on your favorite exotica.

I'll be saving this post - so expect a letter from my lawyer for a suitable 'vig' off the top if anyone comes out with anything even remotely resembling this...

Apr 25, 2008 at 12:09 AM

cogitech
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p.4 #5 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

A dental dam would do the trick. Don't think I haven't thought of all this before.

Alas, I found masking tape to work fine as a masking material (imagine that) as long as enough care is taken and enough logic is applied. The gin and hydrocodone cough syrup makes for very steady hands

Edited on Apr 25, 2008 at 12:39 AM

Apr 25, 2008 at 12:32 AM

rfkiii
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p.4 #6 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Quite right. From what I have heard, though, it is quite difficult (impossible?) to remove the frame assembly without major disassembly of the camera body.

Maybe I should wait until after my trip to get involved with this. The repair dude seemed pretty matter of fact about removing the mirror as if he had done it before. However, if this were as easy on the order of simplicity as say changing a viewfinder, common sense says that the DIY market would have pounced on the procedure long before now instead of risking shaving debris scratching the sensor cover.

Apr 25, 2008 at 01:17 PM

Conner999
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p.4 #7 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Bear in mind, much like the auto/motorcycle industry, they may also have specialized tools to make the job easier.

I wouldn't just drop it off and go for a walk. I'd take the camera in and ask him to walk me thru it and if happy, let him pull it out, file it down and re-install. Bring a large Starbucks for all concerned and it might prove interesting.

The mirror units, shutters, etc are designed to be replaced and what may sound daunting to one of us, would not be to someone who takes DSLRS apart 5 days/wk. No harm in asking him to walk you thru it.

Apr 25, 2008 at 01:24 PM

rfkiii
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p.4 #8 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

A little update on the repair guy. I took the camera by his shop. He's one of those guys who has the perpetual weary and slightly aggravated affectation of one who is dealing with yet one more layman dunce.

Turns out, after looking at the pictures in the links I sent him, he won't remove the mirror to shave it.

He insisted on having the actual lens so that I wouldn't have to bring the cam back if he failed to shave enough off in the first sweep. Easier for him. He said it would take a couple of days and I was reluctant to leave a $1500 lens with someone I had just met when I was supposed to be treating the lens with kid gloves with the possibility of still returning it.

I asked him if he could just shave 2mm? He asked me how he was supposed to measure that? (With a ruler I was thinking.)

I asked him what he was going to use inside the mirror box to catch dust and scrapings and he said nothing. That's when I began to inch my way toward the front door to make my escape.

I'll be seeking other help.

Edited on Apr 30, 2008 at 02:43 AM

Apr 30, 2008 at 02:42 AM

Paul Yi
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p.4 #9 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

rfkiii wrote:
A little update on the repair guy. I took the camera by his shop. He's one of those guys who has the perpetual weary and slightly aggravated affectation of one who is dealing with yet one more layman dunce.

Turns out, after looking at the pictures in the links I sent him, he won't remove the mirror to shave it.

He insisted on having the actual lens so that I wouldn't have to bring the cam back if he failed to shave enough off in the first sweep. Easier for him. He said it would take a couple of days and I was reluctant to leave a $1500 lens with someone I had just met when I was supposed to be treating the lens with kid gloves with the possibility of still returning it.

I asked him if he could just shave 2mm? He asked me how he was supposed to measure that? (With a ruler I was thinking.)

I asked him what he was going to use inside the mirror box to catch dust and scrapings and he said nothing. That's when I began to inch my way toward the front door to make my escape.

I'll be seeking other help.

Why don't you send it to Pham Minh Son and have a peace of mind.
In fact, mine is with him right now having the surgery.
Many people here regards him highly, and he was very helpful in any questions I had.
very nice man.....

Apr 30, 2008 at 05:19 AM

Conner999
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p.4 #10 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Man what an idiot - good call hitting the eject button.

If you don't want to tackle the shave yourself, go with Son - he knows his stuff cold and has a gear collection that would rival most GDP's. In short, he's a perfectionist who handles exotica every day that most mortals could only dream of. He'll take good care of your gear.

It will take longer than you'd hope, but why not see if you can borrow/beg/steal/rent a 1 series or 30D/40D for testing and your trip? It will tell you what you need to know and any edge performance you miss with the crop should not be of any concern. It is one HELL of an optic across the frame.

Apr 30, 2008 at 01:37 PM

cogitech
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p.4 #11 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

rfkiii wrote:

I asked him if he could just shave 2mm? He asked me how he was supposed to measure that? (With a ruler I was thinking.)

I asked him what he was going to use inside the mirror box to catch dust and scrapings and he said nothing. That's when I began to inch my way toward the front door to make my escape.

I'll be seeking other help.

Hence my earlier questions about this guy. Good thing you inquired thoroughly. I also think Son is your best bet.

Apr 30, 2008 at 01:48 PM

rfkiii
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p.4 #12 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Hi Guys,

I am in Moab UT with the Leica 28.

The dealer made an adjustment to the lens just before I left that greatly improved mirror clearance. It still gets stuck when shooting at Infinity, but does not get stuck midway through the shot as before. Apparently, the mirror will go up now, but gets stuck coming back down. A slight jog of the focus ring unsticks it. I can live with this until I resolve the issue permanently.

The dealer said when I got back from this trip, send him the 5D and lens and they could adjust the mirror to clear plus give me infinity focus. Does this sound right?

Seems to me if it were common knowledge that someone could adjust the lens to clear the mirror and achieve Infinity focus, folks would not be so into mirror shaving as they are.

I am loading images from each day's shooting on this crappy laptop with color shift so severe that I am uncertain of what I am seeing. The Leica looks like it is performing well from what I can see but I will have to get back to the hacienda to know for sure.

Edited on May 14, 2008 at 10:40 PM

May 14, 2008 at 10:36 PM

rfkiii
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p.4 #13 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Hi.

Don't bail on me now guys. The dealer who sold me the Leica 28 says he can do an internal adjustment that will allow the mirror ro clear while retaining Infinity focus. Does this sound plausible?

May 19, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Lotusm50
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p.4 #14 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

rfkiii wrote:
Don't bail on me now guys. The dealer who sold me the Leica 28 says he can do an internal adjustment that will allow the mirror ro clear while retaining Infinity focus. Does this sound plausible?

Not really.

May 19, 2008 at 11:53 AM

Leon Noel
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p.4 #15 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Ask him what he means by "internal adjustment"? Disasembling the lens itself? Or shave the rear element protector ring instead?

Either way that's molesting the lens and any mishap will render your lens less valuable/worse performing (scratching rear element in the process? it's possible)

I don't see a lot of choices in this matter, either you fix the mirror (shaving/looking for another 5D that doesn't fault your lens) or you modify the lens itself.

The mirror box can be replaced on the 5D, but I know some users may actually prefer and hence value better a 5D with trimmed mirror than an unmolested 5D. However, if you modify the lens, it's more likely to reduce its value, not improve.

So take those into consideration, I would just do the mirror shaving if I can't be bothered to try my luck in another 5D.

PS: forgot the option many people here opted for when they go UWA on EOS: sell your 5D and buy 1DsII.

Edited on May 19, 2008 at 11:58 AM

May 19, 2008 at 11:53 AM

brainiac
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p.4 #16 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

I did my mirror myself. Used a sheet of plastic as the condom. Cut a slit in it not quite big enough for the mirror so it gripped and almost sealed. Two pieces of polystyrene, one on each side to hold up the mirror nearly as far as the fully open position. Very gently ground with a grinding tool on a standard power drill. Afterwards I sellotaped a drinking straw to my vacuum cleaner and cut the end of the straw diagonally and hoovered gently around the inside of the mirror box to remove dust/swarf. At all times be careful not to let anything touch the shutter blades themselves. It took a long time to grind off enough material, but the camera went on to take a few hundred thousand frames before the shutter exploded. Now it has a new shutter. Canon offered to replace my mirror when they did the shutter, and of course I said 'no way!'.

Ironically I don't use either the Contax 28 f2 or the 45 f2.8 any more, so I don't even need the shaved mirror.

May 19, 2008 at 12:27 PM

rfkiii
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p.4 #17 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Hikers in Red Rock Canyon, NV Leica R 28 f2.8 ISO100, f11 (I think).

This image is copyrighted by the owner

This image is copyrighted by the owner

May 25, 2008 at 05:23 PM

Conner999
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p.4 #18 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Nice shot. Don't know what internal adjustments could be done other than if the dealer knows of a method to bring the mirror frame back 2mm or so into the body without screwing up the AF sub-mirror.

The lens is spectacular (as he posts his for sale...) and if I were a landscape shooter it would be welded to my 1Ds2. One you get this PITA decided upon, you will be impressed - and then some. You're options are limited:

1. A crop body (if you can live with the longer effective FL) or any 1 series. If a primarily a <= ISO 400 shooter, the 1Ds Mk1 is nicely priced right now (app. a 5D) and with it's even thinner AA filter would blow your socks off with the 28. Next best thing to using it on a DMR - at a much, much lower price. If funds allow, keep you 5D for now as a higher-ISO body where infinity focus with the 28 (or other exotica) isn't that crucial. The lens is THAT good at what it does that I would seriously think about replacing/adding a body to use it.

2. Take the lens to your local shop and try it on various 5Ds until you find one that works, buy it and sell yours. My 5D was blessed - mirror cleared everything I threw at it. Mirror clearance varies a LOT by 5D. Would cost some $$ but resale wouldn't be effected as it will be with a shaved 5D.

3. Shave your 5D (or have Pham Min Son do it)

Edited on May 26, 2008 at 12:23 PM

May 26, 2008 at 12:20 PM

rfkiii
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p.4 #19 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

I would think folks on this forum would be in the know about such an adjustment.

I am going to take a chance and send the lens and camera back and let them make the adjustment. If it fouls Infinity Focus, then I will ask them to undo it. They are really nice folks and professional to boot so I do not think that will be a problem. Then I will pursue the mirror shave option.

By the way, this dealer has a couple of Leica R 24mm lenses. The Leica website doesn't list a current 24mm and I thought I read somewhere that the 24mm ain't all of that. Do you have some info about this lens or have a link to discussion about it? I'm holding off on the 24L until I am postive I have I turned over every rock for a 24mm.

As always, thanks for your help.

May 26, 2008 at 06:33 PM

jjlphoto
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p.4 #20 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

It would need to be slid back, towards it's pivot point to shorten its swing to clear the lens. I just don't see how the mirror could be adjusted w/o disturbing the bodies auto focus precision.

May 26, 2008 at 10:12 PM

rfkiii
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p.4 #21 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

They are not adjusting anything in the camera. All of the adjustments are within the lens.

May 27, 2008 at 11:34 AM

Conner999
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p.4 #22 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

My understanding is the Leica 24 is nothing to write home about. It's a Minolta-designed lens built by Leica and among other things is prone to flare. Take a pass.

May 27, 2008 at 11:38 AM

rfkiii
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p.4 #23 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

Just want to update everyone. Shawn at Camerawest.com was able to adjust the Leica R 28mm allowing the mirror to clear. No mirror shave necessary.

To recap: the original mirror clearance was bad enough to hang the mirror half way up during MLU. Resulting images were half intended subject matter and half mirror assembly. Sent the lens back. The preliminary adjustment by Camerawest allowed the mirror to clear during MLU and I was able to take photographs. The mirror hung only on the way down at that point. A short twist of the focus ring cleared the mirror. The images with this interim adjustment were unobstructed (and beautiful I might add). Finally, to adjust the lens to allow total clearance, Camerawest requested I return the lens and send my camera too. I did and I tested the results this weekend.

This is a link to the RAWs of f11 and f16 images. Center focus point on the distant street leading to the horizon.

http://www.box.net/shared/9kr6dnh8g8

The mirror clears perfectly and it appears that I have retained Infinity focus. Maybe someone can spot something in the RAWs I haven't yet. And if there are any other issues that could crop up as a result of such an adjustment, even if it is pure speculation, I'd like to hear it and test it.

Edited on Jun 12, 2008 at 11:50 AM

Jun 12, 2008 at 11:47 AM

shirozina
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p.4 #24 · ZF28/2, Contax 28/2 and 28/2.8?

That looks like a very good lens - sharpness in the corners is exceptional. Interesting to know that the lens can be adjusted to clear the mirror without effecting the infinity setting - something I guess which is only possible on a floating element/internal focus lens.

Jun 12, 2008 at 12:32 PM


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