I'm just getting started and could use some advice from experienced professionals, especially those who do performance photography. Feel free to email me if you feel that it would be more appropriate than replying in the forum.
1. Pricing, of course, is always a question. I want to compete on quality, not by undercutting other photographers. Still, they need to be affordable to the potential customer. My ultimate goal, though perhaps naive, would be to encourage sales for all photographers: A rising tide lifts all boats. That is, to stimulate demand.
2. My sales are pitiful at the present time. I think it is because the web presentation is so nice, that potential customers just view on line rather than buy. I plan to eventually reduce the pixel size of the web presentation and therefore the viewing experience.
3. I have had inquiries for website usage by the bands. I find it difficult to set the pricing for this. I have reviewed Seth Resnick's site, http://photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm, the big stock houses, "Pricing Photography" by Heron and MacTavish etc. Some of these references are out of date and do not discuss web usage in detail. Some of the bands are quite young and broke, while others seem well established. I would, of course, like to make photos available to all of them at a price they can afford. We have not discussed exact amounts yet-some lose interest after they find out that they will not be given away for free. Do you differentiate whether the photo will be used on a myspace page versus a regular website? Some performers have either, some have both. Do you charge additional if the photo is to be used on both? Would fotoquote be a good investment for me? What about photobiz? See #4
4. I know some base the fee on whether they will be used on the home page or secondary page, full size, half, or quarter. What about the number of daily hits on the site? Is this something I need to know. Can I access this information myself, or do I have to depend on the customer's honesty on supplying accurate information to me?
5. One of the performers asked about linking from my site to his. I am using a rental site, Zenfolio, so my options are limited. I can put his website address under his photos as a comment, however. Would it be advisable to trade links (mine on his and his on mine)?
6. I have the book "Business and Legal Forms for Photographers" 3rd edition by Ted Crawford. It is a bit outdated with web use getting only cursory treatment. I could adapt one of the contracts though. Is there a better source of contracts other than hiring my own lawyer?
7. Should I email or snail mail the contract? Photos first, then payment, or payment first, then photos?
I'm sure I'll have more questions later. I'm sorry for the long post and I appreciate those of you who will take the time to reply to one or more of the questions.
Barry
http://b_r_s_photo.zenfolio.com (remove the dashes)
From what you have said, you reveal a very confusing business model. Are you selling prints, electronic images or web services. I would suggest that until you have established one or the other, that you only do one.
Selling prints and electronic images can be done well together, but selling the electronic image is tougher to control and makes you more likely to be taken advantage of. One day you sell an image for use on their myspace page and the next day it shows up as cover art on an album. Those two uses are a world apart from a licensing and fees perspective.
One other basic tip...as someone new to the business, NEVER give product until after payment. Especially when dealing with young, broke artists.
Shooting new bands is good experience but it is not going to take you far . Don't expect to get rich unless you are shooting for record labels . Events like this are not the big earning most people think they are . I wasted my time shooting events early on and I realized that the number of events you have to shoot to make a lot of money makes it not worthwhile .
I am not expecting to make a living income on this alone. I originally intended to sell prints, but I have had many requests for the use of the images on websites. Also a request for use of the images for bios and posters for a band. As I had to make a timely decision, I decided against leasing and opted to request one time fee for each intended use.
Bands really aren't going to pay to use concert images of themselves on their own sites. There are a legion of fans who will send in photos for free and the images don't really have commercial value - they're a vanity piece, but they don't sell records, get used in advertising or put asses in seats. Honestly, there's really no money to be made shooting concerts unless the bands are a really big name or you build up an archive of images of a band or subculture that later becomes big news...like Glenn E. Friedman did with Fugazi and the early Dogtown skate scene. At that point you've got a nice stock archive to license out, but it'll be 10 years before it has any value.
Really, the value of pursuing concert photography is to get an in with record labels and bands to shoot either magazine editorial images (portraiture, "behind the scenes" journalism) or publicity images and images for tour/album merch. That's where there's money to be made, especially from major labels - even at the low end of it I was able to make $1,500/day creative fees from major labels with new bands or $750/day from little indie labels.
Also, it's not really "leasing" images but licensing them. You come up with a rate determined by the number of images and usage capacity, then specify the amount of time that the license is good for. It'll only cover that usage capacity for that amount of time, and if the client wants to extend either they make another trip to the well. You always own the image and control its use, you're simply charging someone else for the privilege of using it.
Thanks, Simon! Well, this time I've already taken the photos, so I'll see how it goes. I might as well respond to inquiries for their usage rather than just toss them.
Anyone know of a good source to obtain a contract to use other than hiring a lawyer?
Bearmann wrote:
Thanks, Simon! Well, this time I've already taken the photos, so I'll see how it goes. I might as well respond to inquiries for their usage rather than just toss them.
Anyone know of a good source to obtain a contract to use other than hiring a lawyer?
Barry
The contracts from "Business and Legal Forms for Photographers" will work. Just get all the details in the contract; who can use the image, what image, how long, how much, where can the image be used. The more detail the better.
p.1 #10 · Selling Concert Photos for Website Usage
Barry (et al)
I'm starting to do something similar - but with independent singer-songwriters. I really had no illusion of riches, anything except maybe paying for a lens or two. I did see it as good "practice", and something more to add to the portfolio.
Two questions, (and follow-ons..), please. I noticed your site is "out in the open" - no security - anyone can view it, as I just did. In the cases of concert photography, where does my right to post someone's likeness to the whole world, in effect, balance with the rights of the individual performer to not have that open access to his/her likeness? A password will allow them some privacy. Good or bad idea?
My second question to the group is that of model release. I'm aware that one is not needed if selling back to the band. There could be times I would like to use the photo, say as part of an ad brochure for my work, or post on the web for the same purpose. Do I use a "standard" release, and would it cover the whole shoot, and would it cover photos that the client would not like - it does seem that the likeness is close to a trademark in use, and the venues are not in public - they are in a private club. Do I also need a release or permission from the club to shoot?
p.1 #11 · Selling Concert Photos for Website Usage
Frank, I've never known a concert photographer to get releases at all, from a club or band. No club employee will be authorized to sign a property release, and I'd be surprised if you could even locate an owner during a show or talk them into signing without it being run by their lawyers first. As for the band - they don't know you from Adam, why are they going to sign your release? There's no margin in it for them, even if you're shooting on their behalf. You aren't paying them, you're asking them to give you commercial rights to their likeness for business that they have no part in.
Which means you're left with just editorial and self-promotional usage. Which, outside of usage on merchandising for the band themselves, is about the only value concert images have. I can almost guarantee you, with a handful of notable exceptions, that the last time you saw commercially-used images or footage of a band performing (in a beer ad, for instance, or in an ad for music equipment) it's not a real concert, it's a staged shot using actors or models. The exceptions weren't licensed from a photographer, they were commissioned with the bands' cooperation.
As for putting "security" on image galleries...isn't the point of self-promotion to have people see your work? Password-protect your proof galleries, the stuff that's just for your clients' eyes, but find a better way to keep the rest of your work from being stolen.
p.1 #12 · Selling Concert Photos for Website Usage
Thanks Glenn and thanks again Simon. Frank, I'd like as many people to see my work as possible. Thats one of the reasons why I switched form Exposure Manager to Zenfolio. The latter seems much more accessible to Google searches and the like, while EM seemed much more hidden and protected.
p.1 #13 · Selling Concert Photos for Website Usage
Shatterkiss - Thank you - a well thought out and clearly articulated response.
Barry - I understand your desire for exposure (forgive the pun). I am attempting to try and balance my use and their privacy/control. I guess I need to do a client sensivity poll.
To both - since there is little commercial use other than the client, I'm not overly concerned about the theft - if no one wants to buy it, who would want to steal it? Sounds like it will be something I do for fun, and for starving artists. Maybe credit, and something to put in the portfolio.
