Different versions of 19mm Leica

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Archive 2008 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

hauxon
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p.1 #1 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Hi, in relation to my other thread on Olympus 18mm f/3.5 sharpness I have been doing some research on 21mm Zeiss and 19mm Leica.

The 19mm Leica seem to be available in at least two flavors, ROM and 3 CAM. Are there any differences between the two with regard to optics? Will both versions fit the typical Leica R to EOS adapter?

Thanks, Hrannar

Edited by hauxon on Jan 30, 2008 at 10:58 PM GMT (Reason: typo)

Edited on Jan 30, 2008 at 10:58 PM

Jan 30, 2008 at 09:52 PM

robsteve
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p.1 #2 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

There are three versions of the Leica 19mm. The earlier one was made in Canada and is now quite an old design.

The second 19mm, brought out in the 1990's was available in 3cam or ROM. Other than the ROM fitting, there is no difference between the lenses. This lens will not fit on a full frame Canon such as the 1D series or 5D. It will fit on the 1.6x crop Canons. Some people have shaved some metal off the rear shroud for the lens to work on the 1Ds, but it is a risky operation on an expensive lens. It is best to find one that has already had this modification done.

To summarize the differences when enquiring with a seller:

Old 19mm, Made in Canada, no built in filters.

New 19mm, Made in Germany, built in filter turret, may or may not have ROM.

Edited by robsteve on Jan 30, 2008 at 06:27 PM GMT

Edited by robsteve on Jan 30, 2008 at 07:47 PM GMT (Reason: changed date)

Edited on Jan 30, 2008 at 11:47 PM

Jan 30, 2008 at 10:25 PM

Conner999
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p.1 #3 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

The link for the mod in question

http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/leica_19mm_mod.html

Jan 30, 2008 at 10:27 PM

hauxon
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p.1 #4 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

According to a PDF I just read about Leica R lenses the 19mm vas totally redesigned in 1991. Are those "made in Canada" lenses then pre 1991 and "made in Germany" post 1991? Any way to detect the year of production with Leica lenses?

Jan 30, 2008 at 11:34 PM

robsteve
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p.1 #5 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

hauxon wrote:
According to a PDF I just read about Leica R lenses the 19mm vas totally redesigned in 1991. Are those "made in Canada" lenses then pre 1991 and "made in Germany" post 1991? Any way to detect the year of production with Leica lenses?

What are you trying to achieve? I am getting a bit confused.

Are you trying to make sure you get the latest optical design, or are you trying to get a lens made at a certain date?

Jan 30, 2008 at 11:49 PM

robsteve
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p.1 #6 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

I just did a search on ebay:

This is the recent optical formula, but three cam.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LEICA-ELMARIT-R-2-8-19MM-R-LENS-2-8-WITH-CASE_W0QQitemZ160203909948QQihZ006QQcategoryZ30070QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

picture from the auction:

This is the older optical design and made in Canada.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LEICA-Elmarit-R-19mm-F2-8-Super-Wide-Angle-3-Cam_W0QQitemZ160202836421QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3341QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122

picture from the auction:

Edited on Jan 30, 2008 at 11:55 PM

Jan 30, 2008 at 11:53 PM

hauxon
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p.1 #7 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Getting the latest latest design of course. If I can see from the serial number it was manufactured after 1991 it must be the new (and much improved) 12 element design.

Jan 30, 2008 at 11:55 PM

Grant808
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p.1 #8 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Just a note of caution...the 'Guy Mancuso's' modded version shown on husband's site was still not shaved enough to work on my 5D. I had to take it down another millimeter+ or so to get it to clear my mirror.

Jan 31, 2008 at 12:07 AM

robsteve
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p.1 #9 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

hauxon wrote:
Getting the latest latest design of course. If I can see from the serial number it was manufactured after 1991 it must be the new (and much improved) 12 element design.

The older lens did not have a filter turret and had Leitz Canada on the front trim ring.

Jan 31, 2008 at 12:20 AM

hauxon
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p.1 #10 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Ok, thanks for the help. I saw on the 16:9 website that the Nikon 14-24 was no match to the Contax Zeiss 21mm lens. A comparison to the 19mm Leica would interesting since the price is closer.

Jan 31, 2008 at 12:26 AM

Conner999
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p.1 #11 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Thanks Grant

Jan 31, 2008 at 01:05 AM

ACElkins
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p.1 #12 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Actually the First (Canada) version of the Leica will fit on the 5D without modification. The copy I have is optically quite good, but somewhat prone to flare issues if you have a bright light source in the image. Most likely that large front element has something to do with the flare problems.

Jan 31, 2008 at 02:42 PM

wkhc168
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p.1 #13 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Has anyone tried both versions of this lens? Is the older version any good?

Oct 29, 2008 at 03:27 AM

R10
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p.1 #14 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

wkhc168 wrote:
Has anyone tried both versions of this lens? Is the older version any good?

Here you can find a very interesting comparison (it's in french but the pics should be self-explanatory):
http://www.summilux.net/bancs/19-21R

Nov 13, 2008 at 12:34 AM

belsha
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p.1 #15 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

It's a catch-22: the older (Canada) fits on all full-frame Canons, but isn't so good, the newer version is stellar, but needs extensive surgery or mirror shave on the camera.

Sharpness wise, the new 19mm is similar to the Canon 16-35 II, but has absolutely no match as far as colors are concerned. It's definitevly worth it's price (you can find them at 1000€), I still haven't decided if its stellar colors are worth the mirror shave, though.

Nov 13, 2008 at 02:25 PM

thrice
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p.1 #16 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

EDIT: scratch the following, had a look and it's the 3cam version

And just to rub salt in they told me they just sold out of brand new 50/2 cron's they were selling for like 600 :/

They also have a like new m8 for 4k aud, that's much cheaper than i've seen them anywhere. If anyone wants it give me a shout i may be able to help, just pm me.

sorry to resurrect an old thread, but a local store is clearing some R lenses and say they have this one for 1999AUD the cheapest i see them on ebay is about 2100USD. I was thinking of getting it and then selling if the ZE 21 distagon offers as much as the old one sans distortion. What do others think? Is this a good deal or are the ebay ones simply ripoffs? I'm referring to the rom version btw and i'm not afraid of modifying it.

Nov 21, 2008 at 07:38 AM

thrice
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p.1 #17 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Just to re-resurrect an old thread. I've been offered a mint 19mm/2.8 Elmarit-R 3CAM (new formula though) for USD1350 ... This is very close to what the new Zeiss is likely to cost, and that will give me auto-aperture and require no hacking... What should I do?

Dec 30, 2008 at 10:12 AM

phuang3
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p.1 #18 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

The latest Leica 19/2.8 has visible barrel distortion, but the color rendition and contrast are excellent. (The best I've seen) Zeiss 21/2.8 is sharper at the corner, though.

Dec 30, 2008 at 01:14 PM

Andi Dietrich
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p.1 #19 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

IMO they are very close in performance, if there is a difference, its not enough to make it worth to hack the Leica. I am on the road, if you want I can send you a RAW file of the ZF tomorrow.

Dec 30, 2008 at 03:08 PM

Grant808
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p.1 #20 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

If I didn't own the Leica, I think I'd get the new Zeiss.

And while everybody says that the Leica is not sharp in the corners...assuming it is a true 19mm lens, cropping to 19.5mm equivalent gets rid of what I consider undesireable, and is about equivalent to the 'slop' in my 5D viewfinder. My opinion again...out there for people to disagree with.

Dec 30, 2008 at 05:54 PM

thrice
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p.1 #21 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Andi Dietrich wrote:
IMO they are very close in performance, if there is a difference, its not enough to make it worth to hack the Leica. I am on the road, if you want I can send you a RAW file of the ZF tomorrow.

Are you "beta testing" it Andi?

I would love a raw file to peek at! If you want to e-mail it just send to dk at photo dot net

Thanks!

Dec 30, 2008 at 09:46 PM

msshea
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p.1 #22 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

I've had the Leica 19mm 3 cam for a couple of years and, yes, the corners lack sharpness. I've been using it on a 5D that Son modified. I have a feeling I'll spring for the new Zeiss 21mm, whenever it comes out, and then sell the Leica. And yes, contrast and color rendition are wonderful. I'd definitely hold off on buying the Leica.

Merrill

Dec 30, 2008 at 10:15 PM

Andi Dietrich
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p.1 #23 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

thrice wrote:
Andi Dietrich wrote:
IMO they are very close in performance, if there is a difference, its not enough to make it worth to hack the Leica. I am on the road, if you want I can send you a RAW file of the ZF tomorrow.

Are you "beta testing" it Andi?

I would love a raw file to peek at! If you want to e-mail it just send to dk at photo dot net

Thanks!

I always wanted to have a decent prime at this range. The focal lenght is great, I pairs up with my other primes and also with my 24-70 and is neither heavy nor very large, it is in my bag most of the time. That's why I do think I can be called a user by now.

I actually decided to put up my Schneider Shift and keep the ZF 18mm and the 16-35ii now.

Dec 30, 2008 at 11:20 PM

thrice
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p.1 #24 · Different versions of 19mm Leica

Hey Andi,

Thanks for the RAW file, quite impressive

I thought by "ZF" in your original post you meant you had been using the 21mm ZF that's why I said beta tester

I was looking closely at the 18mm CV lens, but it's so close to the Contax 21mm and upcoming CV 21mm that I think I may just wait and keep using my Canon 24/1.4 and Tokina 17/3.5 (stopped down) for my ultra-wide applications.

Jan 01, 2009 at 10:15 AM


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