With the forum changes that appear to have been done recently, there are a few issues and some of added inconveninces. While some difficulties might be expected, these do not appear to be necessary. So here's my short list:
1) why were any changes made without WARNING us? The world can be confusing enough anyway .....
2) why is that little "end" always there? It doesn't seem to serve any purpose? Or does it have a purpose different from what was there before "last". When one clicks on "end" most often all you get is a repeat of the single page thread or the 2nd page. So it looks like "end" is just wasting band width by being a duplicate.
3) the change in the way thread pages are shown is a lot more inconvenient than it used to be. We used to be able to open say pages 1,2,3,4 of a thread directly from the thread first page. Now we can only open 1,2,3 AND we have to wait for page 3 to load before getting the priviledge of opening page 4. etc. And one can't be on page 3 and then open pages 4,5 directly to different tabs. Pretty inconvenient in many cases.
4) while the "<" and ">" carats are useful they are most often a duplication.
5) when one first opens a thread and is on page 1, the option of going to page 1 is shown exactly the same as the option to go to page 2. There is no indication that one is already on page 1. Now it mught seem that it is pretty obvious, but the [1] should be at least be a different color like the [2] is when you're on page 2.
6) I just clicked on the "Buzz" forum and was told I can't go there. But when I look at the link even after I have logged in, it does not say that that forum is "Exclusive" ?? So why are we lowly registerd users not allowed to see the Announcements. Perhaps that forum should be better titled "Private Announcements" ??
7) After editting my own message, the line entry "editted by xxxxx on ..." is not displayed for me as long as I am logged on. If any part of a post shows to anyone, it certainly ought to be displayed for the person who posted it.
Sorry if this seems trivial. But when a system is improved, it should not be taking more effort to use it. So I hope this post will be useful to "the powers that be".
While some of your points are valid, the overall tone of your post seems very negative - did you indent to convey this tone, or was it unintended?
The sticky thread at the top of this forum is all about these kinds of issues - you might try browsing through it and seeing what others are saying on this topic.
Yes, if you have any questions or would like to report a bug, please use this thread.
Ok, let's see:
1) why were any changes made without WARNING us? The world can be confusing enough anyway .....
Most of the changes made were internal. Meaning, the code was altered trying to keep the layout as intact as possible...Warnings were always being given on this board.
2) why is that little "end" always there? It doesn't seem to serve any purpose? Or does it have a purpose different from what was there before "last". When one clicks on "end" most often all you get is a repeat of the single page thread or the 2nd page. So it looks like "end" is just wasting band width by being a duplicate.
The "End" link takes you to the last post of a multiple-page thread. Most agree it's very convenient. I agree with you that it should not show on single-page threads.
3) the change in the way thread pages are shown is a lot more inconvenient than it used to be. We used to be able to open say pages 1,2,3,4 of a thread directly from the thread first page. Now we can only open 1,2,3 AND we have to wait for page 3 to load before getting the priviledge of opening page 4. etc. And one can't be on page 3 and then open pages 4,5 directly to different tabs. Pretty inconvenient in many cases.
The old “1,2,3...Last”, would actually work the same way. For example: You would have to click on page 3 to be able to see page 4 and so fourth. It now giving you more page options.
4) while the "<" and ">" carats are useful they are most often a duplication.
The "<>" symbols were added for additional convenience.
5) when one first opens a thread and is on page 1, the option of going to page 1 is shown exactly the same as the option to go to page 2. There is no indication that one is already on page 1. Now it mught seem that it is pretty obvious, but the [1] should be at least be a different color like the [2] is when you're on page 2.
Agree with you. The first page "1" should not be a link.
6) I just clicked on the "Buzz" forum and was told I can't go there. But when I look at the link even after I have logged in, it does not say that that forum is "Exclusive" ?? So why are we lowly registerd users not allowed to see the Announcements. Perhaps that forum should be better titled "Private Announcements" ??
That is temporary. We are having some problems with permissions.
7) After editting my own message, the line entry "editted by xxxxx on ..." is not displayed for me as long as I am logged on. If any part of a post shows to anyone, it certainly ought to be displayed for the person who posted it.
That I didn't know. Is it happening with anyone else?
Sorry if this seems trivial. But when a system is improved, it should not be taking more effort to use it. So I hope this post will be useful to "the powers that be".
Thanks for the reply. I had figured the problems and bug thread was for just that and not what I saw these issues I mentioned to be. The 7 items seemed to be less serious than a problem or bug.
Invalid & Forest,
Negative? Not the responses that I would have expected. At least you didn't complain about my spelling. Do we have a bit too much defensiveness here?
Next on the details of my list:
1) ok and the changes did actually go very well, as these are the most that I have noticed after the hiccup that got a lot of comments in the Canon Camera forum. But if I understand right the only notice was posted in this forum section? If so my suggestion would be that a sticky might be worth considering for each of the forum sections for something as big as the system changes were. That would probably save a lot of "what is going on" posts.
2) ok, agreed.
3) oops you're right about that. I was thinking there had been more than 1,2,3,...Last. But I may have been just entering the pages 4 & 5 in a duplicate url link.
4) ok but "debateable" (sp?)
5) ok ! we agree again.
6) ok I will look there sometime later.
7) ok, will look later to see if still happens. In one of my last posts I must have made 4 or 5 edits to correct spelling And I did not even see one "editted by ... " line. [btw It always amazes me how after I post the computer changes my "impeccible" spelling. ]
And I guess there is one forum item that I would like to see. A preview for posts before submission, like there is for PM's. It might give us "great spellers" a better chance.
And for the offended ones.. the last line apologizes if the system thought they items were trivial and explains why I posted them.
FM Thanks again for replying. And just so I am not misunderstood, I have enjoyed this forum. Even with its multi-tiered groups of users, the FM forum site provides a lot of help, information, and it is a good place to share ideas, observations and problem solutions.
Rodney O wrote:
Invalid & Forest,
Negative? Not the responses that I would have expected. At least you didn't complain about my spelling. Do we have a bit too much defensiveness here?
I am sorry if you found my response threatening or offensive. Hopefully you will find an acceptably receptive audience in the forum bug thread.
First, thanks Rodney, for the time you have taken to explain the things that inconvenience you. I don't think your post is negative, I think it's informative and accurate and it will help us to make the site better.
> 1) why were any changes made without WARNING us? The world can be confusing enough anyway .....
As Fred said, we have tried to make changes as invisible as possible. We haven't entirely succeeded, but it is very hard to meet everyone's expectations when trying to improve a well loved and established system.
> 2) why is that little "end" always there? It doesn't seem to serve any purpose? Or does it have a purpose different from what was there before "last". When one clicks on "end" most often all you get is a repeat of the single page thread or the 2nd page. So it looks like "end" is just wasting band width by being a duplicate.
'end' takes you to the last message on the last page, not just the last page. It's very convenient if you can see that only one or two comments have been added since your last visit. It will be increasingly useful as we lengthen pages in the future to reduce server load.
> 3) the change in the way thread pages are shown is a lot more inconvenient than it used to be. We used to be able to open say pages 1,2,3,4 of a thread directly from the thread first page. Now we can only open 1,2,3 AND we have to wait for page 3 to load before getting the priviledge of opening page 4. etc. And one can't be on page 3 and then open pages 4,5 directly to different tabs. Pretty inconvenient in many cases.
The page number links are slightly a work in progress. They are better than they were, but I note your request for 4 page numbers at the beginning and end of the thread, and I see no reason why not. I agree. I think it would work well like this, and we have the space: 1 2 3 4 ... 48 49 [50] 51 52 ... 95 96 97 end
>4) while the "<" and ">" carats are useful they are most often a duplication.
While the arrow link and the link to the next or last page number DO the same thing, they do not LOOK the same. Many people use other web sites that have a paging system, and in many cases those people will be used to looking for forwards/backwards arrows. There is no harm in having two links that go to the same place, and therefore it makes sense to provide links that are effortlessly recognisable to visitors with different expectations.
> 5) when one first opens a thread and is on page 1, the option of going to page 1 is shown exactly the same as the option to go to page 2. There is no indication that one is already on page 1. Now it mught seem that it is pretty obvious, but the [1] should be at least be a different color like the [2] is when you're on page 2.
This is a bug, plain and simple, and i will fix it as soon as possible.
> 7) After editting my own message, the line entry "editted by xxxxx on ..." is not displayed for me as long as I am logged on. If any part of a post shows to anyone, it certainly ought to be displayed for the person who posted it.
Thanks for spotting that. I will investigate.
> Sorry if this seems trivial. But when a system is improved, it should not be taking more effort to use it. So I hope this post will be useful to "the powers that be".
Not trivial - very useful feedback. Thanks Rodney. Please don't hesitate to mention any other improvements you would like to see.
Negative? Not the responses that I would have expected. At least you didn't complain about my spelling. Do we have a bit too much defensiveness here?
Rodney,
Negative? Whoa! All I did was suggest the Bug Report Tread...I think you're reading a bit too much into my post. Since invalid didn't include the link, I posted it so it would be easier to find.
Negative? Not the responses that I would have expected. At least you didn't complain about my spelling. Do we have a bit too much defensiveness here?
Forrest Egan wrote:
Rodney,
Negative? Whoa! All I did was suggest the Bug Report Tread...I think you're reading a bit too much into my post. Since invalid didn't include the link, I posted it so it would be easier to find.
Forrest
I think he expanded that from my post, which did include the word negative.
on item 2) I think I was making the point that for short threads "end" is particularly redundant, especially on a 1 page thread. For longer threads, its usefulness would seem to depend on whether or not the last page number is displayed or not. And since I would believe a lot of us look to see how many pages are there and thus we want to see what the last page number is before we "click and wait". I see the last page number more valuable than the "end". Though once people get used to both being there, it does add very little to bandwidth even if it is redundant.
on item 3) Agreed this page number display may be something that "shakes itself out". Personally I find it convenient to open most of a reasonable length thread in multiple tabs. Then I can do something else while it loads and come back to the browser and read after they have all DL'd. fwiw.
on item 4) Ok I can see that even if they are redundant, they may be more familiar to some site visitors. Maybe for super long threads we could have the option of entering an actual page number. But we can do that now by just changing the digit in the actual url in the browser address bar. I think what I'd rather suggest would be the carats with more page numbers there to also choose from.
Again thanks for your reply. You all do a great job on what is a pretty active forum.
It's not redundant. The last page number will take you to the top of the last page, like the old 'last' link. 'end' takes you to the bottom of the last page, an important distinction.
> Maybe for super long threads we could have the option of entering an actual page number. But we can do that now by just changing the digit in the actual url in the browser address bar.
It's not redundant. The last page number will take you to the top of the last page, like the old 'last' link. 'end' takes you to the bottom of the last page, an important distinction.
The "end" link is showing even on single-page threads. We should not have any link on single page threads. Right now, if you click on the end link on this page you will get a JavaScript error (IE)
Pagespan is working fine except for:
1) Multiple-page threads. It would show and the number "1" would not be a link
2) Single-page threads: No link would be shown.
Thanks for your followup posts here. And Invalid2 apology happily accepted.
Yes I took Forest's post as being "exactly" what you said first Invalid2. And I saw that post by Invalid2 as a stern warning, a challenge and a complaint about my sharing observations and suggestions. I have appreciated the informative posts from both of you in other threads in which I have participated, esp on GPS photo-tagging. And thus your posts here did surprise me a bit. However, my dragon skin scales are fairly thick, so there's no damage.
If you took my post as "very negative", well sorry but I think you can see from my general posts that I avoid the hostile diatribe that sometimes occurs in forums. I think, that there have got to be somethings in life that are fun and simply enjoyable without the competition that we all have to deal with regularly. For me, photography is one of the things I do for the enjoyment of it.
The "end" link is showing even on single-page threads. We should not have any link on single page threads. Right now, if you click on the end link on this page you will get a JavaScript error (IE)
Pagespan is working fine except for:
1) Multiple-page threads. It would show and the number "1" would not be a link
2) Single-page threads: No link would be shown.
Also, aside from the above, there is also an issue with pagespan on search.php
On pages like: Latest 60, Recent posts and Search results, the page span is not working 100%. The links are correct but pagespan does not change. For example, if I click on page 3, the number "3" still remains a link.
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