1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

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Archive 2007 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

mark1958
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p.2 #1 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

YEs it was the 100mm 2.8 apo-macro elmarit.

ACElkins wrote:
Mark,

I assume you are using the 100mm F:2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit or is it the 100mm F:4 Macro Elmar? I have both lenses and both have excellent performance, I do give the edge in image quality to the Apo at F:8 and above. However at F:16 both are fairly equal in detail.

Thanks for sharing the test, I'll probably be purchasing a 1DS Mk3 sometime early next year and nice to see what the 100mm Leica lens is capable of on the Canon (as it is my most frequently used lens) compared to a MF digital back.

Dec 18, 2007 at 02:57 AM

shirozina
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p.2 #2 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

I did not realise that making such an obviously ludicrous statement on this forum would be interpreted by so many as either serious or sarcastic - lighten up people

Dec 18, 2007 at 07:43 AM

caleb condit
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p.2 #3 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Some could live without sarcasm, but I can´t live without it. I thought it was funny, shirozina. I had a photographer tell me something similar last week, and the outrageous resolution-uprez claims of some are hellarious. By the way, on topic, that leaf file looks a touch softer and in general the two files aren´t the same exposure (due to the sensors having different base ISOs I´m assuming) even though they are the same camera settings. The canon file is getting more light. Close call on these two. I´d say most are right on when what a lot of people are really looking for is better files vs MASSIVE 39 megapixel files (although the big files don´t hurt anything but your HD space). I really wish canon would have just made the jump to 16 bit. Probably holding off for the next round of cameras so we all have a reason to upgrade. Bastards.

Dec 18, 2007 at 09:11 AM

John Black
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p.2 #4 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Mark can correct me if I'm wrong on any of this... The pixel density between a Aptus 65 and 1Ds3 is pretty similar. Likewise, the 1Ds3 has an AA filter vs the Aptus' micro lenses. In controlled tests such as this, the differences are not that big. But in use it's quite different - especially when the subject matter pushes the equipment to their respective limits (and beyond).

I've been comparing the a P25 to the 1Ds2 and normalizing the two systems is impossible. a 50mm lens (1Ds2) gathers light differently than a 80mm lens (AFDII w/ P25). The flattening of the FOV is different. DOF is different. Lens coatings & coloring are different. And of course RAW converters and their respective settings.

Without a doubt the P25 files are better than the 1Ds2's. Getting the image with the AFD II & P25 takes more effort, so the 1Ds2 wins in terms ease of ergonomics. Blah, blah, horses, courses...

I agree with Caleb about a 1Ds4. I'm not seeing enough from the 1Ds3 to justify upgrading to a 1Ds3. I'll use the P25 for a couple years and if the 1Ds4 gains DR and is 16 bits, then I'll probably flip back a dSLR set-up. I'm also curious to see if Nikon adds a FF D3X and if they add something to challenge a 5D Mark II.

Dec 18, 2007 at 09:54 PM

mark1958
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p.2 #5 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

John.. I can agree with alot of what you said. I do not believe the aptus 65 uses the micro lenses but i could be wrong. The H3D-31 uses the microlenses. The leaf aptus is 27 megapixel but a larger frame than the 1DsmkIII so I have never calculated the density. I also agree that hthe FOV and DOF or apparent DOF is different. Even using the standard raw conversion programs give different results with the different files. So yes this is not so easy and I know I was getting some critics on another site for my comparison.. oh well.There is more to the image than resolution and i agree the MF systems are superior in overall IQ. Mark

Dec 19, 2007 at 12:43 AM

John Black
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p.2 #6 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Mark - My mistake. I'm used to the Phase and Hassy backs (pixel count & sensor sizes). If there aren't micro lenses on the Aptus 65, then the 1Ds3 may be pretty sharp after all. I've seen images that make me think it's soft, then others which look very sharp. The problem with this hobby is that you have buy & try this stuff for firsthand to know for sure

I'm feeling pretty comfortable with AFD II / P25 combo, so the Canon equipment is going to be sold during the next month. It's hard to give it up because it's been a very good system. I'd like to have both the 1Ds2 kit and medium format, but there's not enough money to do that.

Dec 19, 2007 at 03:14 AM

mark1958
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p.2 #7 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

no problem. i am in a similar situation as well.. with the MF vs canon or both

Dec 19, 2007 at 04:16 AM

mark1958
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p.2 #8 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

One thing i noticed with some experimenting tonight. I took the same raw images and processed in both DPP and CS3. EVen when i tried to do the best i could to match the colors were more accurate in DPP. Skin tones also better. What was interesting is that i put the DPP sharpening to 3 or 4. I then tried about 10 different ways to sharpen the CS3 including a few with small incremental sharpening and in no case could i get the detail I got in DPP without getting severe artifacts. I have seen this with two images now that i was working with.

Dec 19, 2007 at 06:56 AM

eronald
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p.2 #9 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Using DPP is like getting a new camera, color is better, sharpening is out of this world.

PS or LR win because of the workflow.

Edmund

Dec 19, 2007 at 09:29 AM

mark1958
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p.2 #10 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Edmund. You hit the nail with hammer. I do not like the workflow but the results are really much better. I had only used older versions of DPP and hated it. So i am coming back to it now...

eronald wrote:
Using DPP is like getting a new camera, color is better, sharpening is out of this world.

PS or LR win because of the workflow.

Edmund

Dec 20, 2007 at 02:17 PM

nickrh
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p.2 #11 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

There was an interesting thread recently somewhere on the forums that talked about the differences in sharpening between ACR and DPP. It was rather interesting.

I really wish Canon/Adobe would partner to fix ACR's color. Also, IMHO I feel as though DPP gives less noise in the mid-tones (with NR turned off in both), but I've only done a couple quick tests.

Nick

Dec 20, 2007 at 04:11 PM

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p.2 #12 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

mark1958 wrote:

Edmund. You hit the nail with hammer. I do not like the workflow but the results are really much better. I had only used older versions of DPP and hated it. So i am coming back to it now...

eronald wrote:
Using DPP is like getting a new camera, color is better, sharpening is out of this world.

PS or LR win because of the workflow.

Edmund

Have you guys tried Photokit Sharpener? This was developed by Bruce Fraser prior to his death at his company called Pixel Genius. Jeff Schewe is also a principal of that company and carries on the work. it is the best set of sharpening algorithms I have yet tried.

Woody

Dec 20, 2007 at 04:15 PM

mark1958
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p.2 #13 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Can you get a demo version and will it work on a Mac

I am convinced that DPP makes a huge difference in processing 1DsmkIII files

Dec 20, 2007 at 05:08 PM

httivals
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p.2 #14 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Yes, there are demo versions of Photokit Sharpener, and yes it works on a Mac. It's a fantastic product in my experience.

Dec 20, 2007 at 06:32 PM

httivals
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p.2 #15 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Photokit sharpener also has a great manual, which teaches you about sharpening in addition to about how to use the product.

Dec 20, 2007 at 06:33 PM

shirozina
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p.2 #16 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

DPP, ACR, C1 all add sharpening that you can't turn off and it all looks different - Bibble is the only RAW processor I know that introduces no hidden sharpening and the latest version supports the 1Ds3. When you start with a file has no sharpening you can apply much more rigorous and aggressive sharpening at later stages before unwanted artefacts become apparent.

Dec 20, 2007 at 06:50 PM

mark1958
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p.2 #17 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

You can turn off the sharpening in ACR. I also believe the same is true in DPP.

Dec 20, 2007 at 08:30 PM

RobertP
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p.2 #18 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Mark, is it possible for you to post the Canon RAW file, or perhaps, both the Leaf and the Canon RAWs? If not, that's fine, but I enjoy messing with RAW files in 5,000 different RAW converters.

Dec 20, 2007 at 09:43 PM

shirozina
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p.2 #19 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

mark1958 wrote:
You can turn off the sharpening in ACR. I also believe the same is true in DPP. You can turn the sharpening sliders to zero but there is still sharpening being applied - it can't be turned off. It's quite obvious when you look at side by side at 100% with Bibble.

Dec 20, 2007 at 10:51 PM

mark1958
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p.2 #20 · 1dsmkIII/leica vs Hassy/leaf macro

Robert i am happy to send you a few raw files. I need an account or someway to post them

RobertP wrote:
Mark, is it possible for you to post the Canon RAW file, or perhaps, both the Leaf and the Canon RAWs? If not, that's fine, but I enjoy messing with RAW files in 5,000 different RAW converters.

Dec 21, 2007 at 06:53 PM

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