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Archive 2007 · D300/1D2 AF test

  
 
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · D300/1D2 AF test



I have used Canons since I switched from Nikon F5s to the 1Ds several years ago. One of the subjects I shoot the most is dog sports/training/playing, and in my experience they are far more difficult subjects for an AF servo system than motor sports (even my relatively slow focusing 1Ds worked well for this) or human sports because dogs are faster, their body motion and direction change instantly and unpredictably, and in the case of the guys I used for the tests, they are dark and do not present a lot of contrast for the camera to find and focus on. I tested the D300 with a 70-200 f2.0 VR (the “S” or faster focusing lens) and my old Nikon 80-200 f2.8 along with my 1D2 and 70-200 f2.8IS. The Canons (1D2 and 1Ds2) do OK as long as I use a single AF point, but keeping a single point on a moving dog’s face when you are looking through a 300 f2.8 or longer lens, or they are very close to the camera, is very difficult. The only other option with the Canons is to use all the focus points and let them choose the plane of focus. When I do this, almost always the plane of focus is behind the face (or worse), making the image unsuitable for publication.

The ONLY thing I was checking was AF servo performance. I would love to try the D3, but I could not find one. I asked Nikon if the AF systems on the D300 and D3 were the same, and their reply was,
“The systems are the same but with the difference in power supplies could
offer a slight difference in performance.  If the D300 was to have the
MB-10 with an EN-EL4a that would make the power supply the same”

The D300 I used was far better than my Canons (and I have many 1 and 2TB RAID drives full of Canon images like this) at getting this kind of action in focus. When the later afternoon light (shade) arrives, focusing really becomes a challenge because low light, low contrast, and dark, fast moving dogs do not give the AF system much to focus on. A typical example I saw was a string of 30 plus 1D2 shots where perhaps three were in focus. The D300 (these were all at ISO3200, f2.8) missed four or five out of 17 plus. In good light there was rarely a missed focus from the D300. I used the Dynamic AF on the D300, and I think, for this subject, the 51 points work a little better than the 21 point setting. The D300 felt small to me, and of course the zoom lens rotates opposite to that of the Canon 70-200, but the Nikon is very intuitive and I quickly set it up without having to read the instruction manual. I did have problem with accidentally changing the aperture, which resulted in shutter speeds that were too slow to stop action, and on occasion I accidentally turned the camera off. I think the advantage the Nikon offers in this area is what they call Dynamic AF, which provides a much larger “sweet” spot (21 or 51 AF points) than one single red AF square of the Canons, making framing and successful AF far easier and more successful. I am as curious as others to see what Ron Galbraith will share with us about the 1D3, but unless it is significantly different than the 1D2/1Ds2, it looks like a dual system consisting of the 1Ds2/3 and the beautiful 50 and 85 f1.2 lenses, and the D3 (and perhaps the D300 - the 1.5x works really well with their 7-200 zoom) will provide the best of both worlds. I did shoot a few birds and dogs in a snow storm with the D300 and 1D2/1Ds2, but have not had a chance to go through those images yet.

This is with the D300 and my old (slower focusing) 80-200 f2.8 (imagine trying to keep a tiny red square on this guy’s eye). The Dynamic AF rarely missed shots like these.

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/.Pictures/D300/Cody,80-200,D300-0696.jpg

This is with the D300, ISO3200, f2.8. It does not look like a difficult shot for the AF, but I tried unsuccessfully for three weeks to get this with the Canons. I have to kick the ball accurately (meaning I pay attention to the ball, not where the dogs are), then pick up the camera, frame, focus and take the picture. While it didn’t seem like the Nikon focused any faster than the Canon, the Canon AF always choose the background as a point of focus. The Nikon was not always successful either, but it did get some of these in focus. I believe this was with the 51 point Dynamic AF,

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/.Pictures/D300/Baghera-D300,ISO3200,0888,nr.jpg

More representative images are here,

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/Trial-Web/PhotoAlbum261.html



Dec 06, 2007 at 08:16 AM
chemprof
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · D300/1D2 AF test


Bill,

I very much appreciate your assessment. It's really helpful to get a really objective comparison amidst all of the other nonsense that sometimes gets posted.

Thanks!

Gerald



Dec 06, 2007 at 08:42 AM
poisonpill
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · D300/1D2 AF test


Really awesome to see non-lab tests like these. Out of curiosity, what focus mode did you use? I assume AF-C, but did you use focus priority, release priority, or did you try that focus+release combo?


Dec 06, 2007 at 09:46 AM
kazman442
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · D300/1D2 AF test


Bill, Nice to see a fellow dog shooter, I'm a canon guy but have been reading the nikon forum for the new nikon model info. I don't think we had as much trouble with our mark3's with dogs and this is before the "fix" There where some soft images but we later found out that the AI servo could be to blame for that. We have new mark3's now with the fix so we are hoping to see some improved results. Here is a link if you care to see our dog shooting, Good luck with the dog's , Ron

http://www.pbase.com/caswell/dog_show



Dec 06, 2007 at 09:59 AM
Frode
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · D300/1D2 AF test


Hmm, have you read the manual for the 1D II?

If you have trouble using only one focuspoint, use the setting where the af- area expands with 7 af- points (when necessary). Then you wouldn`t have problem with such situations. I don`t.

Best regards.



Dec 06, 2007 at 03:40 PM
Tim Ashton
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · D300/1D2 AF test


Uh Bill,
You keep that part dog, part bear, mouthfull of teeth in your back yard
what is it??
Tim



Dec 06, 2007 at 07:02 PM
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · D300/1D2 AF test


Thanks Gerald, That is why I didn’t post this on the dpreview forum.

Hi Poisonpill, I am sorry, but I don’t remember. I only had the camera for a day. I set the little lever on the left side of the lens mount to AFC, and chose the Dynamic setting with 21 points because that was Nikon’s recommendation. That worked very well, but I tried the 51 point setting later, and that seemed to cover the entire frame while always keeping the subject in focus. I wonder if the D3 will work as well, since the AF points cover only part of the frame? Nikon also has some setting via which the AF remembers the subject color, and uses it as an aid to keep the focus on the subject first acquired. I didn’t play with that, but it does sound interesting.

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the link. You have some nice photos there! Are all of these with the 1D3?



Dec 06, 2007 at 07:09 PM
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · D300/1D2 AF test


Frode wrote:
Hmm, have you read the manual for the 1D II?

If you have trouble using only one focuspoint, use the setting where the af- area expands with 7 af- points (when necessary). Then you wouldn`t have problem with such situations. I don`t.

Best regards.


Of course I read the manuals, and that (7 point expansion) is the setting I normally use. Today I changed the 1Ds2 from 7 to 1 point for bird photography (stationary birds, with focusing on the eye). I have experimented with every possible combination of settings with these cameras, and chatted with Canon about any ideas they might have. I can post shots like those below all day long, but the point is they are comparatively difficult to get with the Canons verses the D300 I used. As I mentioned, the 51 point choice (on the D300) seemed to work a little better than the 21 point setting, although both were much more likely to result in correctly focused images than the Canons.

When you say you have no trouble, are you shooting the same subjects? I can do sports all day long with these cameras (single point setting is still safer), but the subjects I tested with provide a much more difficult test for the AF. Do you have a link to your successes?

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/.Pictures/Bouvier%20activities/Niko-diving,ISO800,7677.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/.Pictures/2006Calendar/May06.jpg



Dec 06, 2007 at 07:11 PM
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · D300/1D2 AF test


Hi Tim,

They are just puppies - 9 and 10 months old! They are Bouvier des Flanders. They do look like little black bears - especially the girl - when they stand on their rear legs and wrestle!



Dec 06, 2007 at 07:15 PM
Matt Stevens
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · D300/1D2 AF test


Amazing images! Re: dpreview... I've stopped going there due to all the nonsense.


Dec 06, 2007 at 07:19 PM
Tim Ashton
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · D300/1D2 AF test


Great pics and great dogs
thanks
Tim



Dec 06, 2007 at 07:26 PM
Ole Harritz
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · D300/1D2 AF test


Hi Bill,

Fantastic pictures!
I've just registred here so I could ask you if you had any experience with the D2x autofocus?
Anyhoo, nice to hear your comments from a real field test.

Regards.



Dec 06, 2007 at 08:13 PM
dj dunzie
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · D300/1D2 AF test


Hi Bill... I just have to tell you that that dog running on water is one of the best dog images I've ever seen... amazing shot...

Amazing focus on the first shot though, and thanks for the post. Cheers.



Dec 06, 2007 at 11:00 PM
emreese
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · D300/1D2 AF test


Is that really a dog or is a character from the Star Wars star bar?


Dec 06, 2007 at 11:10 PM
Ken Murray
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · D300/1D2 AF test


Hi Bill:

Can you tell us about the EN-EL 4a and Battery Cap part number and did you have the grip on the D300?

Thanks



Dec 07, 2007 at 04:53 AM
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · D300/1D2 AF test


Thanks Ole. I have not used the D2x, but I did try this test with the D2h a couple of months ago (when the D3 was announced, and I began wondering about the Nikon AF performance). For this type of photography it was much less successful than my Canons. I just used it for a weekend, and it may have just been an issue with the camera I tried. It is also probably fine (as are the Canons) for the standard action pics we seek.

Thank you DJ. His name was Niko, and he is featured in the book titled
Unleashed by Lisa Wogan, which was published in October. The publisher wanted to use him on the cover, but their marketing people told her they needed a dog people recognized. I actually think this shot, or one of him running in the snow would have been more likely to induce people to pick up the book to see more. He was incredibly smart - I literally talked to him like a person and we went everywhere together. When we would walk in the woods and come to a fork in the path, he would look back at me to see which way I wanted to go. I would point to the path I wanted, or tell him to choose himself, and he understood. Unfortunately we lost him to stomach cancer last January, just days after his 9th birthday.



Dec 07, 2007 at 07:50 AM
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · D300/1D2 AF test


emreese wrote:
Is that really a dog or is a character from the Star Wars star bar?


Funny! You have a good eye. Chewbacca was indeed inspired by a Bouvier - George Lucas' dog, Indiana (a Bouvier), was the prototype for Chewbacca.



Dec 07, 2007 at 07:51 AM
Bill Hollinger
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · D300/1D2 AF test


Ken Murray wrote:
Hi Bill:

Can you tell us about the EN-EL 4a and Battery Cap part number and did you have the grip on the D300?

Thanks


Hi Ken,

Is the En-EL 4a the standard battery? It was in the low 30s (F - just above freezing) and very windy the day I used the D300. I was checking the excellent monitor frequently, and after filling two 4GB cards, the battery was showing two fifths charge left, so I changed batteries. I did not have the grip on the camera. Nikon told me that with the extra battery power in the grip, the AF performance would be the same as the D3. If so it can only be better with the grip. Interestingly, it seemed to work fine with my older 80-200 f2.8 (non af-s) lens. Mostly I used the new 70-200 af-s lens because there didn’t seem to be any point in throwing known handicaps at the camera.



Dec 07, 2007 at 08:06 AM
Ken Murray
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · D300/1D2 AF test


Thanks for sharing the info Bill!!


Dec 07, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Frode
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · D300/1D2 AF test


First of all, great pictures!

No, I don`t have a link to my pictures.

I borrowed a D300 from Stavanger Foto some days ago. The AF to the D300 worked very good, it also had good performance when it comes to high- iso. Though the 1D II outperformed it regarding AF. No doubt in my mind.

I was also pleased to se how good the 1D II (still) perform regarding high- iso (when necessary I use the NR button in DPP- works fantastic).

The thought was to convert to Nikon, but I think I`ll keep my 1D II for some years to come.

Best regards.




Dec 07, 2007 at 12:58 PM
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