'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

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calvillo
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p.15 #1 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

floris wrote:
Sure a 1.3x 10mp 1D3 wouldn't be too shabby, but it'd be better if it were a 1.6 10mp with similar focus to a 1D3.. now that would sell like hot cakes to any birder.

Sure and everyone would love a Bugatti Veyron for $80K instead of $1.4 Mil. Similar focus would mean a price that was starting to be similar also, which everyone would not love.

Canon appears to me to be somewhat trapped in the 1.6, 1.3 & full frame mode. They don't want to alienate the birders, etc. who love 1.6, or the PJ's who want 10 fps more than they want megapixels or FF. So instead of being able to build1 or at worst 2 sensor sizes, they are stuck with 3.

This will continue until they have a Digic X that allows for both the fps and the high mpixel at full frame, assuming that this can be accomplished.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 03, 2007 at 08:29 PM

Juan55
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p.15 #2 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Nikon D3 announcement on 5th March ....

- Full Frame (no 1.1) - DX mode at 1.5x - High Speed Crop - - 18.7 MB - MSRP $7999

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00KBW8&tag=

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 04, 2007 at 12:47 AM

Paul Schmidt
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p.15 #3 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

danmitchell wrote:
"Abandoning" the EF-S lenses (and I'm not saying that such a move is occurring any time soon) would not likely be a big problem for Canon as long as they draw down inventory first. If they were to move away from crop sensor cameras (at least above the entry level) there would be little demand for high quality EF-S lenses such as the 10-22 and the 17-55 any more. If anything, as owners of older 20D/30D/other crop bodies moved to full frame the demand would dry up on its own

Lenses are like other accessories, the fact that new cameras are being made in that mount has little to do, with whether there is a market for lenses or not. Konica left the SLR business 20 years ago, and there is still a market (a fairly small one, these days) for lenses in the K/AR mount. As long as existing EF-S cameras are in service, there is a market for lenses. Considering that digicams are dependant on software, that runs on specific operating systems, I don't expect a digital camera to still be in service 20 years from now, the market for lenses would certainly last 7-10 years, even if they quit making the cameras tomorrow.

Take me for example. I have a 300D, biggest print I am liable to make is 8 x 10 -- in 30 years of film shooting, I never made a print larger then 8 x 10, I doubt that I am suddenly going to start making huge prints. Now suppose I have $1500 to spend, that's easy, I am investing in better glass, because the camera works for what I need today. Heck one of my film cameras is consumer level, and it's 30 years old, got some nice glass for it too.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 04, 2007 at 12:59 AM

egret
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p.15 #4 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

I am happy with my 30D, and when I see someone at the club showing great photos made with a 20D, all it tells me is he/she has been at it a while. I don't upgrade my Mac every year even though the opportunity is always there. It feels good to have an old friend handy, whether on your desk or in your camera bag.

1.6 is important to some of us. I shoot from a kayak; I need a small camera/lens combo that gives me as much tele as possible. The 30D with the 70-300 works great. I'll be trying the 30D with the 100-400 soon. Here's hoping 1.6 is here to stay.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 04, 2007 at 06:06 AM

nikt
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p.15 #5 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

dan9 wrote:
Huh, Canon has to clear out stocks in Europe. No wonder, other companies are underpricing them left and right now. Other than Canon sports pros and the Olympus 4/3 faithful this PMA is turning out to be a dud.

What if Nikon release their D3 Full frame camera? Not saying they will or anything, but will that keep it somewhat interesting?

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 04, 2007 at 08:16 AM

Yakim Peled
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p.15 #6 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

JohnnyGCanon wrote:
Nikon has 1.5X and Canon would have 1.3X. I hardly think there is a big difference there. True, we would lose a little telephoto but gain on the wide end a little.

One look at the viewfinders will show you the difference. It's much more significant than the focal length difference.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 04, 2007 at 09:38 AM

JohnnyGCanon
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p.15 #7 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Do you mean like they're going to tomorrow?
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=284768

This is a comment by someone that attended a meeting talking about it!

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 04, 2007 at 03:27 PM

melkor
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p.15 #8 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

As I've said elsewhere, Canon is having a bludge, sitting on its rear-end, because it knows that it has the technology to best competitors. This is not good for the consumer imho.

Dave

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 04, 2007 at 10:23 PM

Kamil Kisiel
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p.15 #9 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

melkor wrote:
As I've said elsewhere, Canon is having a bludge, sitting on its rear-end, because it knows that it has the technology to best competitors. This is not good for the consumer imho.

Dave

Yeah, they really dropped the ball with that 1DMkIII....

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 12:45 AM

EB-1
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p.15 #10 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

EB

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 12:54 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.15 #11 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Yes Canon are a pack of lily-livered bludgers and have obviously conceded defeat to the opposition. My god, what were they thinking when they announced the 1D III. Ha, we see through their smoke and mirrors and we say enough is enough. From this point forward we down our cameras and put our hands on our heads and hold our breath until Canon treats us with dignity and take seriously the threat facing us from the imperialist swine at Nikon and the lesser hell spawn.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 01:21 AM

Tom_W
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p.15 #12 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes Canon are a pack of lily-livered bludgers and have obviously conceded defeat to the opposition.

Had you said that shortly after the 30D and 1D II n came out, you would have gained a large following. I'd probably have been among them.

Not now - it's obvious that Canon was building up the next step. I will be snagging one of these in a few months - probably.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 01:42 AM

calvillo
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p.15 #13 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

So Nikon releases their new FF at $8K, so much for competition leading to price reduction. So at least there's an option at $8K.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 05:46 AM

Zachs
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p.15 #14 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

^No release yet...we just get the discontinuation of our D2Hs so far. lol

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 06:35 AM

Tentacle
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p.15 #15 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

... And there are two more 10 Mpixel competitors released/announced. Olympus E-410 and E-510, 4/3rd system, live preview, with the 510 having in-body IS. The E-410 is available right now, the E-510 will be available around june.

10 mpixel from a 2x crop sensor... Ouch. It is not a real surprise that ISO3200 isn't available for this sensor.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 07:12 AM

nikt
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p.15 #16 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Canon won't go full frame for everything, as has been suggested, regardless of whatever Canon were trying to hype up at the time.

Just like Nikon folks who will tell you 'Nikon said... they were committed to DX only". Bringing in quotes made two years ago isn't quite realistic now is it.

Things change. By the way, there is no D3 at PMA. The guy who said it is on another website is a liar... "went to a Nikon seminar for sales reps.... and they had the camera partly covered in gaffer tape.... can't remember the FPS)". Yeah right. He forgot to mention it was hosted by the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy was the guest of honour.

I would have thought that a 300mm F2.8 with an E-510 would be very interesting proposition for birders (if some could... godforbid... get away from not having Canon equipment). High pixel density, 10 MP, Image stabilizer, and one hell of a sharp lens. Since birders shoot in the day, ISO 3200 isn't exactly that necessary. (Before I get 487 people show me photos of the bat they shot in a cave... I'm generalising).

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 12:18 PM

milanissimo
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p.15 #17 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

nikt wrote:
I would have thought that a 300mm F2.8 with an E-510 would be very interesting proposition for birders (if some could... godforbid... get away from not having Canon equipment).

Yeah, but Olympus' 300 mm is - now I quote - 5699.95 $ from B&H, Plus it's not USM which is essential for birding. I think 500 mm f4 L IS USM is roughly the same prize.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 05:30 PM

vachss
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p.15 #18 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

FWIW I think the 300/2.8 with a high pixel density sensor could be a good "light weight" set up for birding. Ultimately though, for telephoto lenses of a similar quality and design the one with the largest front element will likely win in terms of reach. If we are near diffraction limited performance then the best angular resolution you'll ever get is around 1 um / front aperture diameter. So the 5" 500/4 should beat the 4" 300/2.8, and the 6" 600/4 and Sigmonster should similarly beat the 500/4 for ultimate long reach applications.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 07:07 PM

Tentacle
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p.15 #19 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

nikt wrote:
[...]

I would have thought that a 300mm F2.8 with an E-510 would be very interesting proposition for birders (if some could... godforbid... get away from not having Canon equipment). High pixel density, 10 MP, Image stabilizer, and one hell of a sharp lens. Since birders shoot in the day, ISO 3200 isn't exactly that necessary. (Before I get 487 people show me photos of the bat they shot in a cave... I'm generalising).

Hmmm ... I'm no birder, so I'm out on a limb here, but with moving targets and stop-robbing teleconverters in the mix, I can see how higher ISO (as long as it's low noise) is appreciated. It's often the case that the presence of usable ISO 3200 indicates nice low-noise performance some steps back down the ISO ladder.

But that's me just doing educated guesswork again

Whatever happened to the Nikon D3? I'd like to think of the recent D3 poster as a prankster, who conned a lot of people big time. That sounds better, through implication at least, than "liar".

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 09:01 PM

danmitchell
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p.15 #20 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Nikt wrote: "Canon won't go full frame for everything, as has been suggested..."

Actually, if I recall correctly, the claim was that Canon would eventually go FF for everything above entry level. I think most folks who anticipate a move in the FF direction at some point (and I'm among them) still expect that 400D class cameras will continue to use crop sensors for some time.

Dan

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 05, 2007 at 11:11 PM

Hammerli
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p.15 #21 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Nikt wrote: "Canon won't go full frame for everything, as has been suggested..."

danmitchell wrote:
Actually, if I recall correctly, the claim was that Canon would eventually go FF for everything above entry level. I think most folks who anticipate a move in the FF direction at some point (and I'm among them) still expect that 400D class cameras will continue to use crop sensors for some time.

Maybe eventually they will, but maybe just not as fast as everyone thinks. There were an awful lot of people here stating unequivocally the 1DIII was FF and, fortunately for me, those people were wrong. Canon may be starting to come to the realization that perhaps not all of their customer base in upper end models feels FF is a "must have", and in fact some just plain prefer a smaller sensor given a choice. Canon's plan isn't set in stone, and if they want to continue to appeal to as broad a user base as is possible, including several sensor sizes in their offerings seems to have just as much support as going to all FF.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 06, 2007 at 01:46 AM

garyvot
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p.15 #22 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Hammerli wrote:
Canon may be starting to come to the realization that perhaps not all of their customer base in upper end models feels FF is a "must have", and in fact some just plain prefer a smaller sensor given a choice. Canon's plan isn't set in stone, and if they want to continue to appeal to as broad a user base as is possible, including several sensor sizes in their offerings seems to have just as much support as going to all FF.

I have not seen an indication that Canon has ever felt otherwise. It seems to me they have been quite clear about their strategy to incorporate different sensor sizes in products for different audiences. Rumors to the contrary seem to be mostly speculation...

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 06, 2007 at 05:09 AM

Tentacle
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p.15 #23 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

garyvot wrote:
Hammerli wrote:
Canon may be starting to come to the realization that perhaps not all of their customer base in upper end models feels FF is a "must have", and in fact some just plain prefer a smaller sensor given a choice. Canon's plan isn't set in stone, and if they want to continue to appeal to as broad a user base as is possible, including several sensor sizes in their offerings seems to have just as much support as going to all FF.

I have not seen an indication that Canon has ever felt otherwise. It seems to me they have been quite clear about their strategy to incorporate different sensor sizes in products for different audiences. Rumors to the contrary seem to be mostly speculation...

This is considerably more than just vague rumour. Yes, it will take a long time, but the future will be full frame. Except for entry level dSLR.

Source: http://www.digit.no/wip4/detail.epl?id=59456

Brian Worley, product manager of D-SLR cameras at Canon Europa, said that it's a long way before all EOS models will have a full size sensor, but Canon's aim is to equip all models, except the cheapest, with a 35mm sensor in the future.

The quote above is dated august 2005, made in context of the Canon EOS 5D introduction.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 06, 2007 at 06:07 AM

DynoMoHum
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p.15 #24 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Nikon takes another shot across Canon's bow... and/or introduces a upgraded D40, called the D40X, 10MP, MSRP $799 ncluding the 18-55 mm kit lens.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0703/07030602nikond40x.asp

Now, I've not even read the specs yet on this D40X... but clearly Nikon wants to take more of the entry level DSLR market...

I can't help but wonder what Canon might still have up their sleeves, and/or if they will stick to their twice yearly announcements and really not announce any new DSLR stuff till August... or will they shoot back sooner then the fall?

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 06, 2007 at 11:58 AM

nikt
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p.15 #25 · 'Official' Post-PMA Discussion thread

Tentacle wrote:
nikt wrote:

Whatever happened to the Nikon D3? I'd like to think of the recent D3 poster as a prankster, who conned a lot of people big time. That sounds better, through implication at least, than "liar".

Boy are you kind. "Prankster" sounds politically correct. And "liar" sounds like I need to take my own chill pill!

No D3 yet. I have my doubts that it will be FF. But hey, I don't care. If it does the 1.5x high speed crop (and a further 2x super crop) AND manages to fill the entire viewfinder with the new crop area, then I might pick one up myself.

Edited on Mar 20, 2007 at 01:11 PM

Mar 06, 2007 at 12:58 PM


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