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jamesf99 Offline Buy and Sell: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread CPSLOPHOTO wrote: One thing to note: A family that I teach mentioned that their chip company just won the bid to create all of Canon's sensors. Mentioned that there would be something new, but couldn't talk about it. Digic 3? I don't know what else would be different, but he said it would be noticeable. OK, I'm interested. A cryptic post here, but it seems more like a joke that no one has picked up yet. "A family that I teach"? what does that mean? Their "chip company just won the bid to create all of Canon's sensors"? Now there's a loaded statement. Are you suggesting that Canon is giving their chip mfg responsibilities over to a mom and pop fab line, or are you suggesting something else? Very curious what this means.... Jan 21, 2007 at 10:51 PM

Erik Barzeski Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread darknite wrote: So the GPS chip is $20... re-writing the software for the EOS, putting it into the camera body, squeezing in an antenna, and etc would make the end price about, lets say $600 over current body prices. That's an integrated GPS chip. The bare bones ones are less. For $20, all the Canon engineers would have to do would be to wire it to a fairly small little internal antenna (one of the existing pieces of in the camera would work, like the tripod mounting screw) and get a reading from it when appropriate. Their software isn't that complex that adding a custom function to turn the GPS on and off would take more than one programmer one day, and reading from an integrated GPS chip is a few lines of code. So, your $600 is an accurate number for a ONE-TIME cost, sure. But not per-camera. ;-) Yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit... but not much. P.S. Saw someone else guessed $30-40 per camera. That's about right, if not a little high. Jan 21, 2007 at 10:51 PM

danmitchell Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Regarding GPS: If Canon's cost per camera for adding GPS were $30-$40, we could expect that the sale prices of the camera increase by more than $100. (Manufacturers don't add features "at cost" without building the cost plus margin into the price.) While some users might think that this addition is worth $100+, I think most wouldn't. I could see adding the capability to interface with existing GPS units or something along those lines. For the extra cost, I can think of other things that would be more valuable to photographers. (MLU button, anyone? :-) Dan Jan 21, 2007 at 11:04 PM

Richard Steer Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread If, as a number of posts have suggested, GPS tagging of the file would be implemented through the RAW converter, and that the majority of users of a built-in GPS system will be tourists wanting to remember where they took a particular snapshot, I can't help wondering what percentage of tourists typically shoot RAW in the first case? I'd suggest not many, both on account of the extra time and effort required to process the files, and the fact that they can fit three times as many JPEGs on their card. If that is the case, the argument about the time spent hand-annotating photos holds little water: the user would have to take the time to sit down in front of their computer and process their RAW images, something which perhaps they wouldn't normally do, instead of simply taking the memory card to the nearest lab for printing, then jotting down any details on the back of the print as required. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:05 PM

Erik Barzeski Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread danmitchell wrote: Regarding GPS: If Canon's cost per camera for adding GPS were $30-$40, we could expect that the sale prices of the camera increase by more than $100. (Manufacturers don't add features "at cost" without building the cost plus margin into the price.) We know they don't. They'd charge their accounts $50-$60 for it and then they'd pass the cost on to us too at $70-$80. $100 is a stretch. BTW, here is a GPS chip that costs $3.95 in 10k quantities. danmitchell wrote:For the extra cost, I can think of other things that would be more valuable to photographers. (MLU button, anyone? :-) They should just make the print button do that as a custom function. Who direct prints from a 5D/1D? Richard Steer wrote: If, as a number of posts have suggested, GPS tagging of the file would be implemented through the RAW converter, and that the majority of users of a built-in GPS system will be tourists wanting to remember where they took a particular snapshot I don't think the 5D/1D are used by that many tourists. High-end amateurs or pros on vacation, sure. Even in my limited amount of photography I've driven to a nearby forest, walked around for five hours, and wouldn't mind knowing from the top of what ridge I took a picture. With Google Maps APIs and whatnot available these days (and GPS accurate to 1-3 meters), imagine the possibilities professional or high-end amateur photographers could exploit with a $5 GPS chip. From my point of view, it has almost nothing to do with tourists. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:07 PM

Hammerli Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread darknite wrote: Today, based on current technology, no one may need more than 10mp. HOWEVER, when I hear a general blanket statement like this I always laugh, and think back to the infamous Bilol Gates "No one will EVER need more than 640k" statement. Of the possible urban legend of the late 1800s early 1900s patent office head who said everything has already been invented, thats all there is, lets close up shop and go home. Bill Gates never said that, it is also an urban legend. Particularly on sites with fanatics, like here, you'll never see a majority happy with their current MP count. I've seen countless posts here about how people want endless MP so they can crop out a postage stamp size area from a postcard size file and print it at A3 with critical sharpness. Manufacturers aren't likely to stop catering to the MP crowd any time soon. Until people wise up, you'll see the escalation of MP with little advancement in other areas that would arguably have a much greater impact on the quality of our photos other than simply an ability to grossly crop. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:15 PM

Mark Shaxted Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Richard Steer wrote: If, as a number of posts have suggested, GPS tagging of the file would be implemented through the RAW converter, and that the majority of users of a built-in GPS system will be tourists wanting to remember where they took a particular snapshot, I can't help wondering what percentage of tourists typically shoot RAW in the first case? I'd suggest not many, both on account of the extra time and effort required to process the files, and the fact that they can fit three times as many JPEGs on their card. If that is the case, the argument about the time spent hand-annotating photos holds little water: the user would have to take the time to sit down in front of their computer and process their RAW images, something which perhaps they wouldn't normally do, instead of simply taking the memory card to the nearest lab for printing, then jotting down any details on the back of the print as required. Replace "raw converter" with any software package that edits/catalogues image files. Jpegs work just as well too! I don't want to sound like an advocate of GPS - there are at least a dozen other things I'd like Canon to implement instead. The argument was more of somthing useful that Canon could add to it's cameras to increase perceived value, from an average consumers POV. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:16 PM

Mark Shaxted Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Re my above post - I've shot ~10,000 images since I got the 30D. About 50% of which set CF12 + self timer. Quick access MLU would be a significant feature for ME. It's about the average consumer though. Hence the direct print button. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:20 PM

Richard Steer Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Mark Shaxted wrote: I don't want to sound like an advocate of GPS - there are at least a dozen other things I'd like Canon to implement instead. The argument was more of somthing useful that Canon could add to it's cameras to increase perceived value, from an average consumers POV. And strangely enough, I agree. I don't want to sound like I'm in total opposition to a camera containing a GPS chip: despite the disadvantages, I can see that in some situations it would be a nice feature to have, but I'd have to say that it's way down the list of things I'd like them to include in their mid-range cameras... Jan 21, 2007 at 11:25 PM

The Image Offline Buy and Sell: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread my hats off to Keith Cooper of NorthLight Images http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_1DS_MkIII.html for keeping track of all 1DsmkIII information coming across the globe be it speculation/rumor or fact, its good to have one dedicated page for this soon to be incredible camera...that i have been saving for and dreaming about for over two years. Thanks Keith. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:28 PM

Nowhere Man Offline Image Upload: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Imagine uploading your photos to a database that had a world map. It would be possible to link all of the images to the areas of the map where they were taken, simply by reading the GPS info. That would be a very cool interactive feature that I'm sure some 'dot com' is very much waiting to take advantage of and make millions. Sort of like a google earth, but with photos. Everyone could take part and create an online photo map of spots in the world at different times, from different angles. So many possibilities, I think that some just can't see through their daily photo routines as to why GPS would be good to have in a camera. It's defnitely not for everyone...........then again, nothing is for everyone in the world. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:30 PM

Tom_W Offline Buy and Sell: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Erik Barzeski wrote: For $20, all the Canon engineers would have to do would be to wire it to a fairly small little internal antenna (one of the existing pieces of in the camera would work, like the tripod mounting screw) and get a reading from it when appropriate. I seriously doubt that an internal antenna would be effective in a magnesium alloy body. It would have to generally have line-of-sight radio visibility with 3 or more satellites to be able to calculate position. And GPS doesn't actually get a reading of it's position from satellites - it calculates its position based on the relative positioning and other data recieved from several satellites. It's a multi-channel reciever and calculator of sorts. Still not horribly expensive, but I question it's need for most shooters. On the other hand, having the ability to plug in your handheld Garman GPS to provide direct recording of positioning data for EXIF could be a good way of providing GPS capability to those that do see a need for, or just want GPS. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:35 PM

mmurph Offline Image Upload: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread darknite wrote: Bilol Gates "No one will EVER need more than 640k" statement. Ken Olsen of Digital *did* say: "I don't know why anyone would ever need a spreadsheet. You should be able to keep your balance sheet in your head." I read his bio years ago. It is amazing what happens when once-brillant entrepreneurs reach their level of inadequacy ("The Peters Principle.") Sorry, what was this thread about? Canon always surprises us in some ways. I have been most impressed by the fact that they will cannibalize their own sales - take sales from another model - if they think it is the right thing to do in the marketplace. I usually go to Mexico at the end of February, which leaves me scrambling to find out "what happened!!!" when I get back. Better that way I think. Less painful then waiting and jumping on rumors. Good luck! best, Michael Jan 21, 2007 at 11:37 PM

jamesf99 Offline Buy and Sell: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread danmitchell wrote: Regarding GPS: If Canon's cost per camera for adding GPS were $30-$40, we could expect that the sale prices of the camera increase by more than $100. (Manufacturers don't add features "at cost" without building the cost plus margin into the price.) While some users might think that this addition is worth $100+, I think most wouldn't. I could see adding the capability to interface with existing GPS units or something along those lines. For the extra cost, I can think of other things that would be more valuable to photographers. (MLU button, anyone? :-) Dan I'm the one that suggested $30-$40 or less. My original statement was "Estimated cost, probably under $30-$40 per camera, if that." I really don't believe it would be anywhere near that, but I was countering and humoring the ridiculous statement by another poster who said that it would cost $600. Even if the chip cost $20, which I also highly doubt, but again I used what the other poster said, the per camera cost would be minimal. Once you allocate space on the board, or even replace an existing IC with one that has GPS built in, it's a simple matter of writing the firmware to handle it as I said. It probably wouldn't take a programmer more than 1 hour to incorporate a new variable into the raw format buffer. That accounts for the time it would take to "check the code out of the code management system, update the buffer with a new variable field (there's already space), test, check the code back in, go home for the day.. In summary, this would not add $100 to the camera. As I already said, Canon should throw it in and if they do add it, I don't think we'll see an up charge for it. Edited by jamesf99 on Jan 21, 2007 at 06:42 PM GMT Jan 21, 2007 at 11:41 PM

RJJR Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread jamesf99 wrote: CPSLOPHOTO wrote: One thing to note: A family that I teach mentioned that their chip company just won the bid to create all of Canon's sensors. Mentioned that there would be something new, but couldn't talk about it. Digic 3? I don't know what else would be different, but he said it would be noticeable. OK, I'm interested. A cryptic post here, but it seems more like a joke that no one has picked up yet. "A family that I teach"? what does that mean? Their "chip company just won the bid to create all of Canon's sensors"? Now there's a loaded statement. Are you suggesting that Canon is giving their chip mfg responsibilities over to a mom and pop fab line, or are you suggesting something else? Very curious what this means.... I wouldn't mind i fthe something new was a better Foveon type sensor. And I'll take something photographically useful like a MLU button and/or better DR over GPS anyday. Jan 21, 2007 at 11:42 PM

Nowhere Man Offline Image Upload: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread has anyone actually mentioned the term PMA on this thread? haha Thread should be renamed to " 'Un-Official' pre-PMA BS over Coffee Thread " Jan 21, 2007 at 11:47 PM

Alistair Watson Offline Image Upload: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Without seeming disrespectful, if I start reading that now, it will be March before I know it! Anyway, after a weekend spent shooting at the world wildlife trust, in rubbish weather, but still, I was out, whatever comes up in March, if I need it, I will buy it. :-) So a high MP FF 1D whatever plus the new 100-400 L it is then! Jan 21, 2007 at 11:51 PM

Mark Shaxted Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread What's PMA? I thought this was a Canon request forum... Jan 21, 2007 at 11:56 PM

danmitchell Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Hey, it is all pre-PMA, right? :-) Jan 22, 2007 at 12:10 AM

RikWriter Offline Image Upload: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread It seems to me in years past that there were leaks by now. Makes me wonder if there is anything to leak this year. Jan 22, 2007 at 12:13 AM

Peter Reesor Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread The Spanish Caborian site is not giving up on the 200 f/1.8 IS.(he he) Well, if they do not introduce the lens this March, I shall finally get miself the 200 f/2.0 VR, I swear. Do you hear me Canon ? And then you gonna be sorry ! Jan 22, 2007 at 12:20 AM

jamesf99 Offline Buy and Sell: On 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread RikWriter wrote: It seems to me in years past that there were leaks by now. Makes me wonder if there is anything to leak this year. PMA isn't until early March this year, so we could still have something leak out. Personally, I'm not holding my breath for anything right now. Canon seems to have slipped a gear as of late. Here's hoping I'm wrong. Jan 22, 2007 at 12:26 AM

darknite Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread How many people carry the notepad? Only the ones who are truely concerned about about data like location and etc. Besides, don't the 1 series have a voice notation feature? Again, there are so many places that a GPS might not work that its not worth putting in. If the mega pixel wall has been hit, and camera makers have to start adding features that don't have anything to do with improving photography (like GPS, wiper fluid dispenser, cel phone, cup holders and etc) to keep selling prducts, I've purchased my last camera body. Mark Shaxted wrote: darknite wrote: Pushing a button to mark a waypoint just doesn't seem like that big a deal for the money saved A - You'd still need to reconcile which pictures correspond to your GPS waypoint. That's potentially time consuming. B - MOST people don't carry a GPS with them... And my argument about holidays etc is quite relevant. It's primary purpose is to add value to a camera body - not save your neck if you go trecking. Simply linking into an online database saves loads of agro for my money. And the argument about carrying a notepad is pretty poor. How many people (in the real world) carry a notepad and jot down the images number, data/time and their current location? 0.001%? Jan 22, 2007 at 12:30 AM

EB-1 Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread How is spreading rumors, lies, leaks and disinformation a good thing? It just encourages more of the same irresponsible behaviour. EB Jan 22, 2007 at 12:37 AM

Hammerli Offline Image Upload: Off 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread Nowhere Man wrote: has anyone actually mentioned the term PMA on this thread? haha You must be new here PMA is sort of like PMS for guys here. Everyone gets b*tchy, their's is the only correct opinion (i.e. it's stupid for a camera not to have GPS, or it's stupid for a camera to have GPS), and some of us can't wait until it is over so the b*tching will stop Jan 22, 2007 at 12:39 AM

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