'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

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Archive 2007 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Canonuser256
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p.17 #1 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Here is my speculations about PMA

Canon has Nikon breathing down their necks with the D80, D200 and the D40. Now, Canon's problem is the XT is more expensive, and the XTi is about the same price as the D80, but it has the same number of megapixels. Therefore, I think rather than introducing a new lower-level camera, Canon will drop to the price on the XT. I also think that they are going to start including USM lenses with their cameras as the "kit" lens. And the I think the 7D will be out, too. The 7D is a supposed camera to come out as the successor to the 5D, with a full-frame chip in a 20D/30D body, most likely the same 12.8MP chip out of the 5D. Also, Sony has to do something, as they currently hold a very small area of the market, so I think they will come out with a new camera as a successor to the Alpha A-100, either above or below the level of that camera. I don't think Pentax will have any significant news on DSLRs, as they have had a lot of new ones lately. I also have a sneaking suspicion someone is going to put anti-shake into a camera body. My guess would be Olympus will provide an update to the E-330 with anti-shake built-in

Jan 21, 2007 at 05:11 PM

halie
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p.17 #2 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

I think that canon at PMA will be touting a bunch of new high definition video camcorders, several new point and shoots, and hopefully improved 5D and 30D. They really haven't done much of interest, in my opinion, since the 5D. And I can't see them going to only one 1.6 camera, they have too much money invested in their ef-s lenses. Oh yeah, I'd expect a new ef-s lens also. Funny thing, remember last year when they announced the ef-s 17-55, everyone thought they were insane pricing it so high. Now people seem to love it.

Jan 21, 2007 at 06:35 PM

Tentacle
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p.17 #3 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

nikt wrote:

[...]

They were unconvinced by my initial explanation thats its not solely about megapixels. I told them that the 1Dn has 8MP and the price, and the Nikon D2Hs' 4MP and the price. It does frustrate me, I must admit, it shouldn't.

[...]

There is hope... For a long time "Megahertz" was king. After that "Gigahertz" was king. Intel tried to milk that for what it was worth and its upper management decided to build a processor from the ground up with high frequencies in mind. The small print would be that the number of instructions per cycle would drop, but that was fine, the speed would more than compensate...

AMD couldn't keep up the frequencies and introduced a rating number system, to indicate that its CPUs could keep up with the higher clocked Intel processors. Because its performance would keep up. Intel said "it would never use a rating system." Then Intel ran headlong into the thermal barrier with their Netburst (aka Pentium 4) architecture...

End of the story? Intel is using performance numbers as well now. Because the generation after the P4/Netburst line of processors is clocked slower yet is more powerful. (And they now whoop AMD's rear section pretty hard.) The industry, and the buying public, has caught up, or at least is in the process of catching up, with this new idea.

danmitchell wrote:

[...]

The 30D and its replacement (should there be one) might be even more problematic for Canon. Yes, the 30D is a fine crop sensor camera body. However, it no longer surpasses all of the competitors in the way that it (and the 10D and the 20D) did in this category in the past. It still sits at 8MP while the competition has moved on to 10MP, and it doesn't have additional features (whose value we could debate, but again, let's not) like dust reduction, etc. In fact, there are quite a few people who feel that Canon's own 400D beats the 30D in certain areas and for certain types of use.

[...]

I still feel that some reorganization of the product line might be coming. If so, while we are unlikely to see a wholesale introduction of all new cameras this spring, I'd bet that Canon sees a path forward and new introductions might be seen in light of such changes.

I'm still of the opinion that the only way for Canon to retain strong differentiation between its products in the 30D segment and those of the competition is to move that model level to full frame before too long. For some time I have felt that it would be possible and desirable for Canon to push a 5D-like 12MP full frame body into a price range where it could appeal to current 30D buyers.To my way of thinking, the initial price should be within a few hundred dollars of the inflation adjusted original list price of, say, the 20D. (Upgrading the 400D may have helped make this possible.) In addition, this would permit the introduction of a more capable (sealed, etc.) 16 MP body at about the original price of the 5D - though this probaby can't happen before the 1-series bodies are updatd.

I'll float this up again: How about getting the 40D a APS-H sized sensor?

Accept for now that the dreaded field stitching (which definately isn't a Canon PR fable, ask any large IC manufactuter) is wrecking yields, and as a result full frame sensors are 10 to 20 times more expensive than APS-C sized parts. Funnily enough, APS-H sits right at the limit of stich-less sensor size. Do the math: If Canon wants to get their Unique Selling Point for the 30D successor, then APS-H COULD do nicely. A 50% increase in sensor suface area can be put to good use. Do I need to elaborate on those benefits ?

(Btw, nice and insightfull post Dan.)

Jan 21, 2007 at 06:41 PM

lordcarl
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p.17 #4 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Canon is not a company that merely chases quantity and market shares in sales figures for its range of EOS DSLRs. It also extend its supports to most photographers at all levels for the main reason as to why people buy cameras in the first place: PHOTOGRAPHY.

Gearheads and collectors may help camera sales in quantities but Canon does not make its products simply to ensure these groups are happy all year long.

Photography going digital has not led Canon to see cameras as nothing more than mere consumer products to justify leading camera market share globally, which some of its competitors are looking exactly of doing.

Good quality products sell by themselves and Canon has more than enough experience in this section to know what its users want and proceed from there. There is no point having a great product (by specs) and hopes that consumers would simply embrace it with just the selling points alone.

Sony learnt that the hard way with its Alpha a100 DSLR - it was all hyped and hot initially during its global debut but the interest in the Alpha has since cooled off.

While a lot of forum members here and elsewhere may think Canon has lose it somewhat for sticking with 8.2MP with the EOS 30D and "playing catch-up againtst the competitions" with the EOS 400D's 10MP offering, the company still register record sales in 2006 for both consumer digicams and DSLRs and is the global undisputed market leader for both categories last year.

Jan 21, 2007 at 06:51 PM

Erik Barzeski
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p.17 #5 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Kenneth Ekman wrote:
When will the first DSLR with built-in GPS appear?

Heck, at this point I'd be happy with an improved 5D:

GPS
15-16 MP
5 FPS
Dust Protection
Small improvements to ISO and Range
$2999

I had guessed 50/50 this would happen Feb/March. I may end up buying a 5D on Feb. 19 (last day of the rebate) and then possibly returning it if something new is announced.

Jan 21, 2007 at 08:24 PM

Joel Slack
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p.17 #6 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

I keep seeing GPS capability cropping up as an important consideration. Why would that be a highly-desirable feature?

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:02 PM

Brent Ward
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p.17 #7 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Joel Slack wrote:
I keep seeing GPS capability cropping up as an important consideration. Why would that be a highly-desirable feature?

automatically recording the location in the exif. Great for future notes on finding the same place again.

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:28 PM

mfurman
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p.17 #8 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Brent Ward said: Great for future notes on finding the same place again.

I do not mean to be rude but I find this (GPS in the camera) amusing to say the least. I have had a GPS for the last few years and never really used it. I usually remember were I go.

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:36 PM

Nowhere Man
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p.17 #9 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

GPS....Imagine being a National Geographic Photographer on some remote location and you run across some rare animal or artifact?

GPS definitely has great advantages!

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:37 PM

RJJR
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p.17 #10 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

GPS?

What's next?

Cupholders?

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:41 PM

Richard Steer
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p.17 #11 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Someone doing remote work is likely to be carrying a dedicated GPS unit, anyway. Built-in GPS would probably only have novelty value to most people, would increase the price, and, perhaps most importantly for our intrepid photographer, further reduce battery life.

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:50 PM

mfurman
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p.17 #12 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Nowhere Man said: GPS....Imagine being a National Geographic Photographer on some remote location and you run across some rare animal or artifact?

What did those photographers do before they had a camera with GPS? What happened to maps and a note books? How did they manage to "discover" new lands (and come back) in middle ages?

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:53 PM

Erik Barzeski
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p.17 #13 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Richard Steer wrote:
Someone doing remote work is likely to be carrying a dedicated GPS unit, anyway. Built-in GPS would probably only have novelty value to most people, would increase the price, and, perhaps most importantly for our intrepid photographer, further reduce battery life.

So you include an option to turn it off. GPS chips cost very little (~$20 in any kind of volume), use little power (2xAA for 10 hours), and would offer one distinct benefit over a second GPS unit: automatically tagging the photos.

It'd be a welcome - though not critical - feature in the 5D and up.

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:54 PM

mfurman
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p.17 #14 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Someone doing remote work is likely to be carrying a dedicated GPS unit, anyway.

Completely agree! The direction in which some a pushing photographic equipment is ridiculous.

Jan 21, 2007 at 09:55 PM

Mark Shaxted
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p.17 #15 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

GPS makes a lot of sense. Whilst hardly being essential, it could be pretty handy to come back from a two week holiday (for example) and your raw converter automatically adds the exact city/town/village/hamlet you were in when you shot each picture. Saves sifting through large numbers of images a month later trying to remember some foreign nameplace. I think consumers would welcome this.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:06 PM

Joel Slack
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p.17 #16 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

I can see some rare circumstances in which that would (maybe) be beneficial to a very limited number of photographers, but honestly can't see the practicality of it for the vast majority of even pro photographers. It looks to me more like a gimmick, or an excuse to be lazy in keeping track of otherwise important information. I'm not knocking it as a concept, I just can't see where Canon would be able to justify putting one in every pro camera they make, for the very small few who might put it to any kind of practical use. Better an emergency homing beacon than a GPS.

Anyone hiking into remote, unfamiliar areas without maps or GPS units in their possession have no business being there to begin with. I can't imagine anyone being foolhardy enough to attempt that.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:06 PM

CPSLOPHOTO
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p.17 #17 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

One thing to note: A family that I teach mentioned that their chip company just won the bid to create all of Canon's sensors. Mentioned that there would be something new, but couldn't talk about it. Digic 3? I don't know what else would be different, but he said it would be noticeable.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:08 PM

johnhopkins
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p.17 #18 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Dan Mitchell: I use a 350D (and L lenses). I would not bother upgrading to a 30D, a 400D, nor to a 10MP 40D. I would upgrade - and quickly - to a less expensive 12MP full frame body

I think there are many people in that position who share your opinion. We all know affordable (i.e. 30D price point) full-frame is coming some time in the not too distant future. Clearly Canon has to get a lot of things right to bring it to market profitably and all those things may not have been achieved yet. But there is no good reason for many of us to upgrade so long as our 350D/20D/30Ds are still working unless we get FF. If the 40D is a 10MP 1.6x crop camera then it is 'no sale' and the money stays in the bank until we see what we want. My guess is there will be a 5D replacement (probably with more MP) in March and then a reduced cost FF camera later in the year or early 2008.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:13 PM

Caleb Williams
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p.17 #19 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Joel Slack wrote:
Anyone hiking into remote, unfamiliar areas without maps or GPS units in their possession have no business being there to begin with. I can't imagine anyone being foolhardy enough to attempt that.
Of course, when the GPS runs out of batteries and the map spontaneously combusts, you will be glad to have the in-camera GPS!

Seriously though, the foreign locations argument makes a great deal of sense to me. I have photos from Denmark's country side that I have no idea where they came from after 4 years. Having GPS in the EXIF would be nice, hardly essential though.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:14 PM

darknite
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p.17 #20 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

So the GPS chip is $20... re-writing the software for the EOS, putting it into the camera body, squeezing in an antenna, and etc would make the end price about, lets say $600 over current body prices.

For $150 you can buy a more capable fully featured GPS. Pushing a button to mark a waypoint just doesn't seem like that big a deal for the money saved, and 1 less thing to go wrong with the camera. Besides, when you are in a heavy forest area or slot canyon GPS won't work anyway.

GPS, the most bogus worthless feature ever mentioned for a camera.. Even more than the dreaded direct print button.

Erik Barzeski wrote:
Richard Steer wrote:
Someone doing remote work is likely to be carrying a dedicated GPS unit, anyway. Built-in GPS would probably only have novelty value to most people, would increase the price, and, perhaps most importantly for our intrepid photographer, further reduce battery life.

So you include an option to turn it off. GPS chips cost very little (~$20 in any kind of volume), use little power (2xAA for 10 hours), and would offer one distinct benefit over a second GPS unit: automatically tagging the photos.

It'd be a welcome - though not critical - feature in the 5D and up.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:16 PM

Nowhere Man
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p.17 #21 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

It's not a bogus feature. It's about recording data. When your archiving your photos, it would take even more time to type in your hand written notes or somehow tie it in with the data from your handheld system.

Why not have all the information stored with the image, in the EXIF data, so that 10 years down the road, scientists, archeologists, or anyone for that matter doing research on subjects, etc. can have that extra bit of data at their fingertips. Hardly worthless for the minor cost of implementation.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:25 PM

Mark Shaxted
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p.17 #22 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

darknite wrote:
Pushing a button to mark a waypoint just doesn't seem like that big a deal for the money saved

A - You'd still need to reconcile which pictures correspond to your GPS waypoint. That's potentially time consuming.
B - MOST people don't carry a GPS with them...

And my argument about holidays etc is quite relevant. It's primary purpose is to add value to a camera body - not save your neck if you go trecking. Simply linking into an online database saves loads of agro for my money. And the argument about carrying a notepad is pretty poor. How many people (in the real world) carry a notepad and jot down the images number, data/time and their current location? 0.001%?

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:33 PM

Joel Slack
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p.17 #23 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

Is there going to be an altimeter, barometer, thermometer, and anemometer included?

That's a joke. I absolutely have no dog in this fight, and probably more information is better than less, but I have to wonder where it will all end. Have a GPS, don't have a GPS, either way. We've gotten by fine without it up to now, but if they put one in, it won't be the end of the world.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:37 PM

jamesf99
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p.17 #24 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

darknite wrote:
So the GPS chip is $20... re-writing the software for the EOS, putting it into the camera body, squeezing in an antenna, and etc would make the end price about, lets say $600 over current body prices.

Huh? $600? That's not even close to right. If a chip is added to give GPS information the firmware code necessary to communicate with the chip is all that's necessary. The CR2 RAW format has room for new variables. Estimated cost, probably under $30-$40 per camera, if that.

Furthermore, Canon should just include it for free since their major competitor does.

Anytime you want to compare profit margins, look at Nikon's D2Xs and D200. Nikon's costs are higher, and they make money.

For $150 you can buy a more capable fully featured GPS. Pushing a button to mark a waypoint just doesn't seem like that big a deal for the money saved, and 1 less thing to go wrong with the camera. Besides, when you are in a heavy forest area or slot canyon GPS won't work anyway.

GPS, the most bogus worthless feature ever mentioned for a camera.. Even more than the dreaded direct print button.

Now that is one of the most bogus worthless statements I've read in a few days.

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:40 PM

Beni
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p.17 #25 · 'Un-Official' pre-PMA Rumor Thread

I had understood that the nikon system allowed a seperate GPS system to be plugged into the camera for syncing, not that there was a GPS built in...

Jan 21, 2007 at 10:42 PM


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