Tentacle wrote:
Like someone else already mentioned, the entry level camera buyers aren't buying into the EOS system as much as the 20/30D users. Especially those buyers who buy an entry level kit: Once a new package comes along, some of them just buy a kit again. Lens mount lock-in? Not for them.
It's quite the contrary actually - you'd be surprised to know how many consumers re-buy this or that brand just to able to re-use their crummy 35-80mm zoom of their 10+ year old SLR.
This is so boring and predictable. Before Nikon released D2X and D200, Canon fans were all about "Canon rules the world, why does anything else even exist". Now that Nikon has excellent and completely renewed lineup its "argh, what are we going to do, Canon is falling behind, woe is us, we have only 8MP on the mid-range body, if Nikon becomes the best do we have to switch in order to have the bragging rights, or do we just ritually disembowel ourselves?"
Pih.
dturina wrote:
This is so boring and predictable. Before Nikon released D2X and D200, Canon fans were all about "Canon rules the world, why does anything else even exist". Now that Nikon has excellent and completely renewed lineup its "argh, what are we going to do, Canon is falling behind, woe is us, we have only 8MP on the mid-range body, if Nikon becomes the best do we have to switch in order to have the bragging rights, or do we just ritually disembowel ourselves?"
Pih.
I have a feeling that after PMA no one will be complaining that Nikon has a slight lead in the MP war. I made the mistake of going from Canon film to Nikon digital and it really hurt financially, it has taken me a while to build up my Canon arsenal again (see sig) and I have no intention of changing brand ever again. Would rather have an 8MP 1D2N than a D2/00/xx anyway. However a 22 or so MP 1D body to compliment the 1D2N would be wonderful in March, come on Canon!
dturina wrote:
This is so boring and predictable. Before Nikon released D2X and D200, Canon fans were all about "Canon rules the world, why does anything else even exist". Now that Nikon has excellent and completely renewed lineup its "argh, what are we going to do, Canon is falling behind, woe is us, we have only 8MP on the mid-range body, if Nikon becomes the best do we have to switch in order to have the bragging rights, or do we just ritually disembowel ourselves?"
Pih.
You're right to an extent...
I have no intention of switching anytime in the next 5+ years regardless (love my 5D and my lens investment is for the long hall!) and see any (presumably temporary) feature leadership by Nikon as being great for the market and for us Canon users... Serious competition and feature wars brings value and innovation in any consumer style technology. I can't wait to watch...
But you're right - many will moan and be unhappy almost regardless of what Canon does bring out.... Canon could replace the 30D with a 60D with 12 MP, wireless flash and weather sealing... And there would be those that really wanted 1.3 crop, or didn't want the extra MP etc... Equally I know some will find the replacement 5Ds too big, or too small, or no good because they have flash (or because they don't) etc.... Indeed the posts in this thread on wishes are so contradictory it is guaranteed that not everyone will be happy. For example my No. 1 is even better high ISO, with No 2 being weather sealing (even moderate). Everyone will be different in what they percieve as priorities. But then – that’s why we all don’t drive the same brand and colour of car, call our children by the same name, do the same jobs etc.
However IMO those of us committed to Canon systems should be happy if we see Canon aggressively responding the market - returning the serve and upping the features and value (and Nikon, Pentax and Sony playing the game and doing the same back)... No Camera is perfect - but we need to be part of one of the leaders to maintain the system investment.
Edited by Geoff Costello on Jan 19, 2007 at 09:43 PM GMT
dturina wrote:
This is so boring and predictable. Before Nikon released D2X and D200, Canon fans were all about "Canon rules the world, why does anything else even exist". Now that Nikon has excellent and completely renewed lineup its "argh, what are we going to do, Canon is falling behind, woe is us, we have only 8MP on the mid-range body, if Nikon becomes the best do we have to switch in order to have the bragging rights, or do we just ritually disembowel ourselves?"
Pih.
Thanks for the laugh This is such an over-the-top-comment on something that's portrayed as sooo-over-the-top that I can't help but smile.
I'm actually cheering for Nikon, or else nothing will ever motivate Canon to improve on build quality and other areas where they are lacking. Also, I have a hunch that Olympus might be a prominent player at PMA. And their lenses are not to be underestimated - they're among the best I used, and I used lots of stuff.
Geoff Costello wrote: EDIT - A further thought - I could imagine the strategy you are proposing potentially being Canon's strategy (if their DSLR division was agnorant and very confident of retaining market etc) up until very late last year... Then the (shock horror) of Nikon taking market leadership with the D40/D80/D200 for the first time in many years in December (as per another poster here) could well have caused them to fall back to the more realistic approaches my source was talking about... So was your suggestion speculation (as are 99% of posts in this forum) or perhaps a source from last year which (hopefully) has been superseded by a more rapid approach?
Anyway - time will tell... ...Show more →
Canon doesn't lose any market share with the EOS 30D. This model may not sell as much in some markets as compared to the Nikon D200 but it is not a disaster as what most forums are making it seems to be far as Canon Inc
is concerned.
I don't have to speculate - more like instincts. Prior to Photokina last year, I had been giving hints here there will not be any other EOS DSLRs to be released after the EOS 400D (after it was officially unveiled last Aug) but my hints were largely ignored in favour of most speculations of the possibility there would still be a replacement EOS for either one of these: 30D, 5D or 1Ds MK II despite Canon only unveiling the EOS 400D.
I don't have any access nor info to any new Canon EOS DSLR in the pipeline but I believe I should be closer to the truth now that my pro dealer had just told me there would be no more EOS-1D MK II N available effective Jan 1, 2007 when I was just about to order another one as a back-up to my existing unit.
Such scenarios have occured twice for me in the past 4 years. In Dec 2003, my pro dealer told me there would be no more stocks of EOS-1D coming in, and in January 29, 2004, the EOS-1D MK II was announced. At that time, I was still an EOS 10D user and had the opportunity to test the first 1D for an assignment and loved the images I could get from it. However, I didn't buy the 1D MK II as there are always glitches in the first few batches, preferring to wait a 6-10 months or a year before committing.
Just as I was about to commit (July 2005), my pro dealer told me the same story - no more 1D MK II coming. And the following month, Canon unveiled the EOS 5D and EOS-1D MK II N, of which I bought the latter, seven months later.
FYI, my pro dealer do not speculate nor knowing the specs of any new model designation other than agreeing there is something new coming since an existing version is officially tagged as "no longer available" from his database account with the local Canon.
Tentacle wrote:
I don't think the 40D will go full frame. If Canon plays it (too) safe it will stay with APS-C and get mauled by the D200, K10D, D80 and the D200 successor. If Canon moves the 40D to 1.3x crop it will strike two birds with one stone: It will beat all competition because it will have a lower pixel density and thus better IQ and it will push EOS users towards full frame. While at the same time not take the big price penalty that comes with full frame sensor production. APS-H (1.3x crop) is a sweet spot, cost-wise.
Not to mention that APS-H still allows a focal length multiplier over FF for those who like the longer effective reach of a crop sensor camera.
I find myself in this area. I like the reach I get with my XT and 17-40, 28-70 and 70-200. At the same time I'd like higher DR, higher ISO and lower noise. Meanwhile, everyone's stuck in a MP race with increasing pixel densities that work against what I'm looking for in IQ. I was disappointed to see the 400D go 10MP, but I know it was probably necessary for business reasons. I would have been happy with much better 8MP sensor.
Sorry, couldn't help myself, maybe 4 is a bad luck number for Canon, after all, the Nikon D40 has made alot of people who would normally buy Canon go with Nikon. Maybe this 50D rumor/idea has some legs and needs follow through.
Then again, remember the urban legendary photoshop 35D manuals that made the rounds before Photokina.
lordcarl wrote:
Trust me, there will NEVER be an EOS 40D in the pipeline. An EOS 50D as the successor to EOS 30D is more likely. Asian superstitious disallow Canon from using single or double-digit 4 numeral in its SLR/DSLR designation. Triple-digit and more are OK - hence EOS 400D designation is OK. Canon tried a double-digit on the PowerShot series, the S40, wasn't selling very well either and was quickly replaced by the S50 and S60. The PowerShot G-series also bypassed "4" by having a G5 after the G3 model.
Fujifilm bypassed "4" too by naming its latest DSLR as the S5 Pro.
Biggest proof of bad luck associated with "4" designation happened to Nikon with its pro AF 35mm SLR, the F4/F4s/F4e series. Touted as the pro SLR camera which would make all pro photogs dumping other brands and using it as the premier choice, it turned out to be the other way around instead.
Its existence signalled the beginning of mass exodus from Nikon to the Canon EOS System in the 90s and beyond by pro photogs everywhere. ...Show more →
So maybe Nikon should practice some 'Truth in Advertising' and come out with a D49, or D94?
>The numbers 4 and 9 are considered unlucky in Japanese: 4, pronounced shi, is a >homophone for "death"; 9, when pronounced ku, is a homophone for "suffering."
OK, I have a slightly off the wall prediction. I think Canon will replace *all* dSLRs at PMA. Yes, all, including the 400d/XTi.
We know that most of the range are reaching their replacement dates, but why would I predict a 400d replacement since it's practically new? Simple, availability. Here in the UK there are virtually none around - it's the same in Hong Kong too.
Poor availability could mean two things, either a replacement due soon, or supply problems. If it were supply related I'd expect things to be perking up since the Xmas rush has passed, but it hasn't, if anything availability is getting tighter. So, I think there's a new model due. Of course they may be having sensor yield issues, but here's hoping ;)
dturina wrote:
"..... if Nikon becomes the best do we have to switch in order to have the bragging rights, or do we just ritually disembowel ourselves?"
Pih.
Given that I'm strongly against disemboweling oneself, I would say that the only alternative is to switch.
Adrian Warren wrote:
Simple, availability. Here in the UK there are virtually none around - it's the same in Hong Kong too.
It is not true. There are 400D everywhere in Hong Kong. And Canon HK does not reduce the price or offers rebate for this model.
BUT Canon HK just reduced the official price of 5D in Jan. Now we can get 5D for only HK$18900 instead of HK$21000. (divide 7.8 for US$). This gives signal that 5D is going to be replaced.
Not that it matters to me, but a long f/2.8 EF-S zoom would be nice. Something to compliment the 17-55IS. Like a 55-155/2.8IS that's the size and weight of the 70-200/4L would be great.
kevin.chen wrote:
Not that it matters to me, but a long f/2.8 EF-S zoom would be nice. Something to compliment the 17-55IS. Like a 55-155/2.8IS that's the size and weight of the 70-200/4L would be great.
If there was a 55-155/2.8IS EF-S under $1300, I'd buy one before I finished reading the announcement. I doubt that Canon wants to step on their 70-200 line for that little of a difference in focal length. The 17-55/2.8IS has no real peer amongst EF, so it made more sense.
My realistic wish list is 40D (10MP, sensor cleaning, DIGIC III) $1399
100-400/f4IS $1699
python2000 wrote:
My realistic wish list is 40D (10MP, sensor cleaning, DIGIC III) $1399
100-400/f4IS $1699
The 40D as stated is reasonable.
That lens isn't. A 100-400 f/4 IS for just more than the current 100-400L? I'll bet the price is much closer to that of the Nikon 200-400 VR.
If I may give my opinion as a Nikon shooter (and former Canon shooter, my favorite 35mm camera has been the A1 ), I think that both Canon and Nikon have reached a level of capabilities and functionality surpassing all the needs of most amateurs by factors. They both have made (and still make) amazing machines to take incredible pictures. The interesting thing to me, is that thanks to the technical capabilities of both systems (Canon and Nikon), in many cases, it is the photographer who will make the difference.
But back to the original question, I think that the pro-ranges of both Canon and Nikon are getting a bit old and I would expect announcements in that direction: Canon 1DmkIII or 2d, whatever the name and Nikon D3x or D3h, probably for both brands a highres kind of body (more pixels, crop mode) and a sport kind of body (not necessarily too many pixels, max 10mp, but incredibly fast).
My opinion: everybody will win and get even better technology.
dturina wrote:
...if Nikon becomes the best do we have to switch in order to have the bragging rights, or do we just ritually disembowel ourselves?"
Pih.
Ouch! That sounds painful! Who ever listens to anyone doing the bragging anyways?
dturina wrote:
I'm actually cheering for Nikon, or else nothing will ever motivate Canon to improve on build quality and other areas where they are lacking.
And likewise me for Canon. Nothing like a little competition to improve all products in a given area.
I watch what Canon's doing because I'm hoping Nikon will improve in the areas that Canon is better. Only a few of us with the financial means can keep switching, so I want Nikon to improve and fill gaps in their gear line-up. I like my gear and don't intend to switch, despite helping my friend chose a Canon setup because it better met his needs.
More megapixels is more of a marketing tool, as what we have in both brands produces excellent results, though I would like Nikon to kick up the D2Hs to a bit higher. Better results with the existing megapixels seems like a better choice for most of us. Less noise at high ISO (a Canon trademark, isn't it?), better weather sealing (the D200 did a great job there, maybe Canon can top it and make Nikon improve more), better auto-focus (this would be more for the consumer grade cameras, as the pro lines are both superb from what I understand.) The big winners here are us - the end users - assuming that we are actually intending to upgrade our equipment.
