Strange flash problem (580)

Moderated by: guardian

Visit the FM Store · Image Upload · Buy & Sell
FM Forum Rules
Canon SLRs, primes, and zooms lenses reviews

FM Forums | Canon-mount SLRs | Join Image Upload

end

Archive 2006 · Strange flash problem (580)

Lunatique
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #1 · Strange flash problem (580)

I have a Speedlite 580 that I use with the 1D MKII, and sometimes I get weird behavior with the flash.

I have it set on ETTL, and I just dial up and down the exposure compensation on the flash itself, while using the camera in either manul or aperture priority mode.

So the problem is this--when I point the flash directly to the front, even with it dialed down to -2, it still blasts the subject and totally blows everything out, but if I turn the flash to any other angle, it'll behave normally. What's up with that?

Also, what does it mean if a newly charged set of batteries makes the flash's indicator light turn red instead of the green it's supposed to show?

Nov 16, 2006 at 02:28 AM

moondigger
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #2 · Strange flash problem (580)

Make sure you don't have flash compensation dialed in on the camera itself. I'm not sure if it would interfere, but better safe than sorry.

Nov 16, 2006 at 02:34 AM

Brooke Clyde
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #3 · Strange flash problem (580)

Guessing here ... Isn't there a special position for the head - just a notch below straight ahead? Maybe using (or not) that makes a difference ...

Nov 16, 2006 at 03:08 AM

Gochugogi
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #4 · Strange flash problem (580)

Also, what does it mean if a newly charged set of batteries makes the flash's indicator light turn red instead of the green it's supposed to show?

I guess you haven't owned other Speedlites or spent time with the manual have you? Red indicates the flash is fully charged and ready to fire. The green under it means the flash exposure was okay. If the green light doesn't come on, get closer.

Nov 16, 2006 at 03:19 AM

moondigger
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #5 · Strange flash problem (580)

Gochugogi wrote:
If the green light doesn't come on, get closer.

Or use a wider aperture, or use a higher ISO.

Nov 16, 2006 at 03:40 AM

Lunatique
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #6 · Strange flash problem (580)

My manual is in storage, so I don't have access to it for now (not until we find a new place to live). From what I remember, the red light is supposed to be green--to indicate that the flash is ready to go, and the light underneath it indicates if an exposure was good or not. Guess I remembered wrong. I actually use the flash a lot as a fill flash--I usually just dial it to -2 and then bounce it off of wherever I want and not have to think too much about it. Only when it's acting weird do I have to start worrying about it.

I checked the notch under the normal angle, and both that and the normal front angle overexposes the subject, while any other angle doesn't.

I don't have compensation dialed in on the camera.

I just tried more tests, and if I dial the ISO all the way down to 100, the exposure is closer to normal (but nowhere near the look of -2 flash, which is a very natural subtle fill-flash that I use all the time for low-light indoor shots that should look like it was taken without flash). I typically shoot shots like that with a setting of roughly f/1.4~2.8, 1/30~1/60, ISO 400~800, and flash of -2. The results I get typically look like this:

This image is copyrighted by the owner

As you can see, the -2 on the flash makes the effect very subtle and gives a very natural look. I used to be able to get that look even with the flash pointed forward, but now I'm getting the subject completely blown out.

Nov 16, 2006 at 04:28 AM

kdlanejr
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #7 · Strange flash problem (580)

Check your contacts on your hot shoe. Make sure they are clean. Ensure when mounting the flash that you are seating it all the way into the hot shoe so your E-TTL gets to talk appropriately with the camera.

The negative 7 degrees on your flash head is for use when you are close to your subject and need some light lower in the frame.

Try setting up again the way you like to, then look at the back of the flash and see what range the 580EX says it is prepared to cover. If you are shooting closer than the minimum; Expect it to blow out unless you change your exposure settings. Since you like Av, lowering you ISO seems like the way to go. Since you have already determined ISO 100 will work, maybe you were withing the minimum flash distance.

Until you find your manual, you can download one here. http://eosdoc.com/manuals/?q=580EX*

Hope some of this helps.

Ken

Nov 16, 2006 at 04:43 AM

Lunatique
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #8 · Strange flash problem (580)

I tried as you suggested--checking the contacts and all that--no difference. I tried shooting from longer distances too, and it's still blowing out the exposure. ISO 100 is not a choice since it'll kill all the ambient light, and the whole point of shooting in the style I do in the first place is to capture the intimacy of low-light ambiance.

Thanks for the link to the PDF--I'll see if I can find the answer in there.

Nov 16, 2006 at 07:20 AM

ranmandx
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #9 · Strange flash problem (580)

did you check to see if ETTL is set to meter in evaluative mode or average mode?

Nov 16, 2006 at 03:25 PM

Alan321
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #10 · Strange flash problem (580)

I reckon the problem is with the Av mode. The camera is applying its own fill ratio depending on available light without flash. In manual that would not happen. Also, if the flash is not facing ahead that would not happen.

Nov 16, 2006 at 05:42 PM

matt4626
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #11 · Strange flash problem (580)

For what it's worth I have not had any luck with Canon Flash in Av mode. Manual works fine. I'm still not getting the consistent results I got from my former Nikon flash system FYI.

Nov 16, 2006 at 05:53 PM

Lunatique
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #12 · Strange flash problem (580)

Manual mode doesn't help--I shoot in both Av and Manual mode and they both blow out with the flash facing the front. I've also tried different metering modes--still no difference.

Nov 16, 2006 at 08:07 PM

kdlanejr
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #13 · Strange flash problem (580)

Rob,

Since you're not able to get back to where you were previously shooting with the flash, it only leave two possibles in my mind. (considering you've already checked contacts and seating of the flash) Ones is that something in the E-TTL circuitry in the flash has failed and the flash needs servicing, the other is that some circuitry in the camera body that coordinates with the flash has failed.

If you know someone else close to you shooting the same body; I'd check you flash on it. if it has the same problem it is the flash. If it doesn't, then the problem might be in your camera.

I can't think of any Custom functions that would cause this. As far as Av mode causing the problem, Av mode is designed for what you have been using it for; Fill flash of your subject with Ambient metering of the background. I like your photos demonstrating what -2 EC can do for you. A very nice intimate look.

Don't forget that EC adjustments on the flash override EC adjustments on the camera body.

I'll look at the Custom functions for the 580EX, perhaps there is something there we are all overlooking.

Ken

Nov 17, 2006 at 06:05 AM

kdlanejr
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #14 · Strange flash problem (580)

Have you changed your C.fn-14 from evaluative to average lately?

From what the manual for the 1D MK IIn says, evaluative is where you want it for your style shooting.

This is my last stab in the dark for now. I did not see anything in the manual for the 580EX that could cause this. (unless somehow you've managed to put your flash is manual full power and not notice it).

As long as your flash is in E-TTL and your C.fn-14 is in evaluative, I think we are back to a problem with either the flash or the camera.

If you get a chance to troubleshoot with someone that has similiar equipment, I'd be interested in what you learn.

Ken

Sorry, Ranmandx, I overlooked your coverage of C.fn-14 earlier.

Nov 17, 2006 at 06:39 AM

trumpet_guy
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #15 · Strange flash problem (580)

Are you shooting with a zoom lens? I believe the 580EX flash has its
own head zooming function that tracks the focal length of your
zoom lens. This tracking function is deactivated when you move your
flash head off of dead center to a different angle. I expect it then
zooms to it's widest setting. Is it possible that the zooming head
on the flash is stuck at telephoto? You are getting more power to
the subject than your E-TTL system thinks you are, perhaps?

Just an idea.

Nov 17, 2006 at 08:40 AM

Lunatique
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #16 · Strange flash problem (580)

I've checked all the stuff you guys suggested--no difference.

I've shot with both zoom and prime with the flash and both behaves the same.

I'm not sold on the defective circuitry thing--but only because I'm such a wuss with my camera (as in, I never get too rough with it). But who's to say it didn't just wig out all by itself? I'll see if I can replicate the problem on another body (no one else ever had this problem before

).

The zoom head on the flash is working fine--I checked it. Though I do wonder why it only misbehaves when it's facing forward (or that notch underneath).

What's strange is that if I bring down the diffuser panel on the flash (which automatically changes the zoom head to 14mm), the problem goes away and I get my lovely -2 subtle fill flash back. I tried this with both a zoom and prime lens. What does this tell you guys? I'm at a loss here.

Oh, I forgot to mention--I've had this problem before, and it just goes away by itself--which leads me to wonder if it's related to a certain set of batteries I use (which probably isn't is--since I just tried a different set/brand and same thing), or something else.

Nov 17, 2006 at 09:25 AM

Alan321
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #17 · Strange flash problem (580)

Could it be that you are just too close to the subject ?

If not then I agree with Ken that the flash unit and/or camera are at fault. We seem to have exhausted all likely user-errors. Test the flash as-is on another camera. Test another flash on your camera. Send the faulty bit(s) to Canon for service.

Nov 17, 2006 at 04:26 PM

Lunatique
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #18 · Strange flash problem (580)

Looks like it'll have to be faulty circuitry then, since I've tried shooting from across the room too.

But that still doesn't explain why having the 14mm diffuser panel down fixes the problem (while simply dialing down the zoom head to 24mm doesn't change anything).

Nov 17, 2006 at 08:44 PM

kdlanejr
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #19 · Strange flash problem (580)

Here is a thread on another forum that discusses some of the points made here. http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=237585&highlight=flash+blow+out

This thread http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=236512&highlight=team+flash demonstrates a problem occuring during the same shooting session and changing light conditions.

As far as I can tell, the only thing these others have in common with your problem is the 580EX.

Ken

Nov 17, 2006 at 09:13 PM

kdlanejr
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #20 · Strange flash problem (580)

Not sure why the diffuser panel makes a difference, although it does bring us back to the possibility that the flash is not recognizing when the diffuser panel is not in use, hence your good exposures with the panel deployed.

In the manual for the 550EX, it says if you pull the wide panel out too far the zoom button will not work and the entire display on the lcd will blink, put the panel back in, the zoom button will work, but the entire display will continue blinking. Send the flash to Canon for repair.

In the manual for the 580EX , page 20, it tells you that if you accidentally detach the wide panel, the zoom function will not work, the display will blink and then tells you how to reset it. Next it tells you the flash will work normally.

Still seems like a flash unit problem to me.

Ken.

Nov 17, 2006 at 09:37 PM

Lunatique
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #21 · Strange flash problem (580)

Thank you SO much for those two links! It's great to know I'm not alone. Now that we've established that others are having the same problem, what do we do next? Simply call up Canon and ask "WTF is going on?"?

BTW, reading their threads, it reminded me that I had the exact same problem one day while shooting an outdoor concert in bright day light. I wanted to have fill flash filling in the shadows caused by the harsh sunlight, but it ended up blowing out all the subjects--which made no sense. So essentially, this problem comes and goes, due to no change of setting on my part--it just acts up once a while.

Nov 18, 2006 at 01:51 AM

Lunatique
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #22 · Strange flash problem (580)

I emailed Canon and they advised me to ship the flash in for assessment. My warranty expired (bought it in June of 2005), so this means I'll have to pay repair fee. With that said, would I be better off just keep on using the 14mm diffusion panel as a fix instead of paying to get it repaired? I mean, using the 14mm diffuser panel doesn't seem to have any negative effect on my shooting at all--that extra flash zoom coverage doesn't effect longer focal lengths during exposure--if anything, it only covers a wider angle than necessarily--which isn't a bad thing in itself.

So should I pay for repairs, or just keep on using the 14mm flash diffuser?

Nov 18, 2006 at 03:20 AM

kdlanejr
Offline
Image Upload: Off

p.1 #23 · Strange flash problem (580)

Lunatique wrote:

So should I pay for repairs, or just keep on using the 14mm flash diffuser?

Only you can answer that.

If it were me, I'd send the flash and some examples of the problem you are having. They will advise you if the cost to repair is prohibitive vice buying a new one.

I'd only use it with the flash diffuser continuously deployed if you are sure that is the only way you ever intend to use it again. Seems like you'd be giving up quite a bit of capability on the flash if you choose to do that.

Ken

Nov 18, 2006 at 04:05 AM

Gochugogi
Offline
Image Upload: On

p.1 #24 · Strange flash problem (580)

They will advise you if the cost to repair is prohibitive vice buying a new one.

Last time I was at a Canon Service Center--last Spring--the mimium charge was $150. The charge may vary somewhat by region but it's bound to be similar.

Nov 18, 2006 at 05:21 AM


FM Forums \| Canon-mount SLRs \| Join Image Upload end