new Zeiss T/S lens

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Archive 2006 · new Zeiss T/S lens

dcmiller
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p.4 #1 · new Zeiss T/S lens

jjlphoto wrote:
dcmiller wrote:
I was refering to the Canon 24TSE. But I realize this lens is not ideal for interiors.

dcmiller-

This is the "Alternative Forum"! You should know better than to mention that lens!

Since Canon is often translated as 'Gun', I suggest, in this forum, we stop using the 'C' word and instead refer to 'Gun'.

Sep 13, 2006 at 06:46 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #2 · new Zeiss T/S lens

john_edwards wrote:
Uh, say Paul could you do a little latin translation for me, google doesn't and I'm afraid to ask any little old latin teachers because of what I think it is. The signature line is whats in question.

As far as I can tell, it says "Sh*t or get off the pot".

Sep 13, 2006 at 07:03 PM

carstenw
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p.4 #3 · new Zeiss T/S lens

john_edwards wrote:
I guess I don't get it. Most of the photos posted on the web site don't appear to do any more than what you could get with a lensbaby. I can see a need for the selected focus area in the last product shot if the advertising people were going to droop text both the the left and right sides. And the shot with the girl and flowers was nice but what is the point of having two people, standing next to each other, one sharply in focus the other so far out that you want to close one eye and only look at the girl on the left. Unless the whole point of the series was to show how narrow you can select a plane of focus and in any direction, which is easily done in Photoshop. But then I got up at 0420 this morning so I could be still asleep.
John

Judging from your equipment list, you already know what a TS-E lens does. I guess he was just trying to show how to isolate sharpness, as well as how pleasing the boke is.

Sep 13, 2006 at 07:04 PM

Stefan Steib
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p.4 #4 · new Zeiss T/S lens

well, these lenses are certainly not to be produced in masses, the price will be for the one who know what its worth to have such a tool and which are earning money from the "little bit of snap" they can sell just that "little bit" better.
I know there are plenty good photographers out there looking for that same end of the sausage to bite in...... but I firmly believe there are still things that make the difference. It takes some time to choose _your _ tools. It also needs some time to get a style that makes you feel comfortable but one things for shure without a good equipment it´s a lot harder.
I would be happy if in 15-20 years when the last 35mm bodies will sent to the museums, because we have (I don´t knowwhat..maybe) pinsize large communicators with 500Mpixel sending this to the internet directly, somebody packs out his Superrotator that he has bought "way back then..."and still makes a picture that astonishes people because it shows something new or personal.
I also would like to point to the fact that just taking these monsters into my hands makes a good feeling somehow, haptics that prove this to be serious, full metall and heavy, a nice lens coating, real heavy mechanics. same category of people wearing mechanical chronometers, using M-leicas and preferre Mobiles of size that a male grownup can push the buttons without a pin.

I think you get the point.

Stefan

Sep 13, 2006 at 07:21 PM

rpinciuc
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p.4 #5 · new Zeiss T/S lens

I agree, I really like the bokeh on this lens... it's a little different than Canon's usual smooth/soft bokeh, looks very cool.

Sep 13, 2006 at 07:35 PM

cogitech
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p.4 #6 · new Zeiss T/S lens

carstenw wrote:
john_edwards wrote:
Uh, say Paul could you do a little latin translation for me, google doesn't and I'm afraid to ask any little old latin teachers because of what I think it is. The signature line is whats in question.

As far as I can tell, it says "Sh*t or get off the pot".

Quite precisely, although it is my Latin translation of the English that is quite likely not as good as it could be.

I added this to my sig when I was attempting to sell my CZ21 (which I am not any more) and all I was getting were tire kickers. I decided to leave it there. One of my mother's favourite sayings

Sep 13, 2006 at 08:22 PM

timparkin
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p.4 #7 · new Zeiss T/S lens

john_edwards wrote:
I guess I don't get it. Most of the photos posted on the web site don't appear to do any more than what you could get with a lensbaby. I can see a need for the selected focus area in the last product shot if the advertising people were going to droop text both the the left and right sides. And the shot with the girl and flowers was nice but what is the point of having two people, standing next to each other, one sharply in focus the other so far out that you want to close one eye and only look at the girl on the left. Unless the whole point of the series was to show how narrow you can select a plane of focus and in any direction, which is easily done in Photoshop. But then I got up at 0420 this morning so I could be still asleep.
John

Do you know what title means for landscape photography? Have a think how to tilt could help getting a nice sharp foreground, middle distance and infinity without diffraction loss.. That's the one of the main reasons why most landscape photographers are still using large format cameras.. It would be nice to have a ~20-30mm version but these lenses are *very* useful (and thats ignoring their utility in architecture and product photography). The examples are extreme usage in some cases but they demonstrate edge cases very well.

Sep 13, 2006 at 08:45 PM

jjlphoto
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p.4 #8 · new Zeiss T/S lens

Yep- Shot #13 really says it all.

Sep 13, 2006 at 09:47 PM

Stefan Steib
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p.4 #9 · new Zeiss T/S lens

We are going to sell a limited amount of several samples of each focal lengths and mounts after Photokina. So yes we could do that.

Stefan

Sep 13, 2006 at 10:44 PM

jonboring
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p.4 #10 · new Zeiss T/S lens

stephan - any plans for something a little wider?

Sep 14, 2006 at 03:01 AM

Stefan Steib
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p.4 #11 · new Zeiss T/S lens

Well, shure we want to do this. Point is it´s difficult. Hartblei has already done a prototype of 28mm with russian glass, the quality is pretty good, but it´s no Zeiss. Even if we would consider to use Rodenstock or Schneider digitars the backlensplane and the filmplane are too close, as well as the back lens(es) is (are) too large.At the moment the Canon 24mm is shurely the only alternative for wideangle shifting and tilting. But we are definitely looking into this because we want to complete the lens range of our products. But right now we will be happy to get the lenses to the market and establish them with serious pros, the wideangle (28 or 24) is a project in medium time range that we want to do.

Stefan
www.hartblei.de

Sep 14, 2006 at 08:06 AM

marcwilson
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p.4 #12 · new Zeiss T/S lens

Stefan,
You mention the 28mm prototype with russian glass.
Are you guys ever considering bringing out a 28mm lens for medium format cameras without the shifts,tilts, etc?
I think their could be a big demand for it..i.e. everyone that owns a contax or mamiya 645.
Marc

Sep 14, 2006 at 01:37 PM

jonboring
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p.4 #13 · new Zeiss T/S lens

>> Unfortunatley the 40mm with only 12mm of shift is not going to get many <<
>> architectural photographers interested <<

how much shift are you looking for ?

Sep 14, 2006 at 02:48 PM

shirozina
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p.4 #14 · new Zeiss T/S lens

28mm with 15mm of shift would be very similar to my old 5x4 camera with a 90mm lens - ideal!

Sep 14, 2006 at 04:50 PM

herion
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p.4 #15 · new Zeiss T/S lens

john_edwards wrote:
Stefan, Forgive my rather dry sense of humor. I'm really trying not to slip down Guy's "slippery slope" of exotic glass. But if the 120 comes in at a reasonable (to me) price I'll buy one. John

John,

If you're in the alt forum and responding to threads, then you have already past the point of no return.

You are accelerating at 32 ft/sec^2. To avoid friction burn, remember to steer INTO the direction of the slippery slope - go buy a Leica 90mm Elmarit !!

Sep 16, 2006 at 02:42 AM

DrPablo
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p.4 #16 · new Zeiss T/S lens

shirozina wrote:
28mm with 15mm of shift would be very similar to my old 5x4 camera with a 90mm lens - ideal!

The Hartblei/Zeiss announcement says that their lenses have only 10mm of shift and 8mm of tilt...

Most 90mm lenses on 4x5 have at least 50mm of shift. The biggest, baddest lenses for coverage are the Schneider super angulon XL line. The 90mm f/5.6 Super Angulon XL has more than 60mm of shift. This is the quintessential architectural lens.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html

A better way of phrasing it is to relate the image circle to the film or sensor size.

Most 90mm lenses for 4x5 project an image circle of at least 215mm diameter over athe 4x5 frame (153.7mm diagonal). The 90mm Super Angulon XL, the largest, has a 259mm image circle. So the selection of 90s will have between 62 and 105mm of excess coverage. As a percent of the film's diagonal this is between 29% and 40% excess coverage.

In landscape mode the 90 SA XL has 66.76mm of rise, which is a 66% rise over the 4 inches (101.6mm) of the frame in that orientation.

So how would this compare to 15mm shift on a 35mm frame? A 10mm rise over the 24mm direction is a 42% shift, and it would only be a 28% shift in portrait mode. That's considerably less than you get from the larger LF lenses.

The amount of shift and tilt will be appreciably more if you use these lenses on an APS-C camera, simply because there will be much more excess image circle relative to the sensor size. This is much the same with view cameras -- the 90mm super angulon XL is large enough to cover 8x10, but you won't have any movements; but on 4x5 you have tons and tons of movements.

The interesting question will be comparing the Zeiss-Hartblei to the Olympus-Zuiko, which seems to be the real cream of the crop among small format TS lenses. I'm also curious about the expensive Schneider tilt-shift lens for 35mm. Schneider glass is also as good as it gets, so that must be a very nice one.

Sep 16, 2006 at 03:37 AM

Doug Morgan
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p.4 #17 · new Zeiss T/S lens

Paul:

Most of the 35mm PC lenses are shift only. The Oly 24 and 35 FL are both shift only, though in two dimensions at once (limited by image circle). If you are referring to the Schneider 28mm (Nikon, Canon, Leica mounts) it too is shift only and seems to get mixed reviews.

What makes the Hartblei/Zeiss combo interesting is that they are both Tilt and shift which is pretty much owned by Canon in the 35mm format at the current time. I've got a couple hasselblad lenses on a tilt/shift adapter, just sold a Hartblei super rotator MF, and currently have a TS-E for sale so I'll just say that I am very interested in this.

Doug

Sep 16, 2006 at 03:47 AM

DrPablo
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p.4 #18 · new Zeiss T/S lens

Thanks Doug,

Didn't realize the Schneider was shift only, but Nikon's 85mm has both tilt and shift.

I like my Canon 24 TS-E, but it really has a lot of flaws too. It will be nice to have an alternative.

Sep 16, 2006 at 03:52 AM

Doug Morgan
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p.4 #19 · new Zeiss T/S lens

Is the Nikon full frame? Or is there some reason it can not be adapted to Canon? It has never been recommended to me when I was looking at the various alternatives.

At 24mm the only competitor is the Oly 24 but again, shift only. I recently picked up the 35mm Oly and it is very sharp. I'm told the zeiss shift is sharper but it is also much more expensive and again, shift only.

The super-rotator mechanism has a lot going for it so with good glass I think they'll have a winner.

Doug

Sep 16, 2006 at 03:59 AM

DrPablo
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p.4 #20 · new Zeiss T/S lens

The Nikon is an old lens for 35mm film. I have a book about architectural photography (Photographing Buildings Inside and Out by Norman McGrath). This is a pre-digital age book. The vast majority of his work is with 4x5, but he also uses both the Oly and the Nikon (and says they're both great optically). I don't know about adapting it to Canon, but it's worth thinking about. You wouldn't really lose anything by adapting the Nikon, since the Canon is manual focus and will only reliably meter in M anyway. I really enjoy shooting with the 24 TS-E, but I have to correct barrel distortion and red-cyan CA in every shot, and I typically will only shoot at at least f/8 (when possible) because of softness.

I don't think tilt is hugely important for pro architectural shooters. This is especially true on small format, which has a much deeper DOF than 4x5. Tilt on wide lenses is a much bigger deal for landscape shooters who need foreground to horizon sharpness. So I think the architectural world has been pretty well stocked with the PC lenses. But tilt is a lot of fun, and will be very useful for landscape shooting.

Sep 16, 2006 at 04:11 AM

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