The 30D will be my first DSLR. The 20D was good enough for me but I decided to wait for its succesor. Big plus for me is that it is an improved 20D at a lower price! More improvements would have increased the price and then I'd not have bought this one but gone for a 20D. So as far as I'm concerned Canon did a good job on this one.
From an image processing standpoint, I think the bottle neck right now is with DIGIC II. Until canon launches DIGIC III with some substantial increase in processing power, I don't expect any major increase of MP in the EOS family
I'm sort of bummed, was hoping for something with this release a bit closer to 5D, for something like $2000. But I guess for now 5D is the full frame price point and 8MP is about maximal for 1.6 crop cameras. Seems like a good time to just suck it up and get the 5D or are there rumors of some sort of 35D in-between camera??
The 30d can't hurt canon, because they barely changed the manufacturing. They might not get a lot of 20d ugpraders, but people waiting from the 300d etc. will go for it. Even if nobody upgraded from the 20d, the 30d sales won't be lower than the current sales rate of 20d (people who were getting ready to buy a 20d aren't going to say "Bah! Now that a better camera is out, I don't want it!".
What this does do is push the people who have 20ds but are content with upgrading to the next 30d, 40d, 50d etc look very hard at 5d and better. The 30d is it for awhile, and if they want a markedly better camera, they are going to have to buy the 5d.
By all counts, I'm arleady seeing a lot more people saying things like "Well, 5d it is."
I strongly agree with everything Les said.
As a 10D owner, I can confirm I find this new body tempting. I may like to have two bodies sometimes (in order to carry a backup or to have two lenses mounted in the same time or other) and this one looks very sexy. I am not sure I will buy the 30D though for I am not that rich , but I can confirm it fixes most of the things I regret with the 10D: addition of a spot meter, 1/3 ISO, ISO in the viewfinder when setting it, improvement of the power efficiency, larger and better screen, better control of choice of AF points, selectable high speed mode. These changes are definetely worth more for me than an upgrade of the sensor to 10MP. I still regret the viewfinder is not much improved.
I think the changes from the 20D to the 30D have made a good camera better for the serious amateur photographer. I'm a 20D owner and the bigger screen, RGB histograms, and spot metering are things I want. They also help Canon differentiate the "advanced amateur" 30D from the entry-level 350D - there wasn't all that much difference in performance and features between the 20D and the 350D given the price difference.
Clearly the 30D isn't a "D200 fighter", it's a refinement of the 20D. In the spec-sheet wars, people who buy into the "megapixel myth" at this price level and aren't already committed to a camera family will probably go with Nikon's D200, as will existing Nikon owners. But Canon owners with a significant investment in Canon lenses - especially amateurs who started with a 300D or 350D - will graduate to the 30D. Both the 30D and D200 are fine cameras with superb lens families. So what's the problem?
IraGraham wrote:
The Nikon 200D is far better in my estimation. Canon should have waited another month so they could upgrade the sensor to a little higher then the 200D. Then they would have had great sales. They are gonna loose big time. The only people that will buy are those that just have to have the latest version of a camera...I encourage everyone to keep their 20D and upgrade next year.
Also I am not excited about the new 85L. Way to overpriced if you ask me.
Until 2mp makes that large of a difference, this slight upgrade is quite enough for most. Think about it, Canon answered every photographer's concerns about the 20D: LCD size, ISO in the viewfinder, smaller blackout time...
Would another month have made it economically viable to throw in some more pixels and add a few hundred dollars? Probably not, a whole lot of people would take the 30D as it is right now.
If you're looking for high megapixels, wait a little bit. If you'd like to sell all of your lenses and gear just to get two more megapixels from the D200, I'll be waiting in B&S...
Since when has ridiculously fast L glass been cheap? You get what you pay for...
I'm sure glad there are plenty of expert internet jockeys out there who know better than the filthy rich and hugely successful Canon corporation.
..cue the eye-rolling..
If you guys are in this only for megapixel bragging rights or on-paper specs, give up the fight now because you'll always be broke and always be frustrated if that's the case. Also, yes Nikon knows what they're doing and still churn out superb (and underrated) equipment. All the better for the photographic field in general.
WHY does it have to be a Nikon vs Canon vs whoever war? This isn't us vs them. It's JUST a camera for shooting pictures, everyone. It's JUST a light-tight box with a shutter and imaging sensor. Just an object. Ease up already. Take some pictures. If they truly stink because Canon "dropped the ball" with your camera, THEN worry about what's out there that's better.
As someone who owns or has owned multiple cameras or pieces of equipment from Canon, Sony, Nikon, Rollei, Leica, Konica, Voigtlander, Sigma, Pentax, etc (both digital and many film cameras).. I can honestly say they all take pictures. They take pictures of what **I** put in front of them and I'm the limiting factor in how good the photos are, not the cameras and the fact one has 8 megapixels and the other has 10.
I was reading the info on Canon's site and found this in the LCD info:
"The full-featured shot information screen not only provides an RGB histogram, it can display the AF frame [point?] used. Magnification has never been faster. Magnification zooms to the focus point rather than the center of the image to check exposure and critical focus."
So RGB Histogram is super cool, and previously unmentioned.
And having the display show focus point and zoom to that point is really cool.
Edited by technocraft on Feb 21, 2006 at 04:59 PM GMT
egret wrote:
I echo Nill's comment. I photograph birds and it is not good having mirror slap that sounds like a 12-gauge being racked. Is anyone aware of whether the 20D's loud shutter is addressed in the 30D?
It appears they did make some adjustments to the shutter based on the increased longevity of 100,000 clicks. I also think I read something about the mirror being being shorten slightly to reduce blackout. Maybe some of these changes will have an effect on the shutter noise.
I think to many people blame whats in their hands and not themselves when they take a bad picture. They end up selling off all their gear and going wtih the other company only to switch back a year later. Stop crying over what the camera doesn't have or what the other guys have and get out and take pictures with what you do have!!
I think Canon guys know very well what they do, and the lack of a neccesity to strike back Nikon (as we all see with the release of 30D) is the result of Canon being the number one of the market. And although i agree that the D-200 is a well constructed camera, please, don't compare the image quality and the high ISO performance of the 20D (and very likely the 30D because they share DIGIC II/CMOS) with those of the Nikon. I think the 30D is the result of the incoming maturity of D-SLRs evolution, which means that the megapixel count race is no more the mainstream of camera developing-see the refinements offered by Canon: spot metering, 1/3 ISO increments, etc. The 30D marks the mature stablishment of certain camera line in the Canon lineup; I doubt the D200 will be causing any scratch on Canon sales in the future...
I think it's great. Much like the upgrade from 300D to 350D, here canon added functionality that really should have been present in the 20D. It's a shame it wasn't already there, actually. I guess now canon has a pretty robust line-up, and this upgrade adds some tangible differences between the 350D and 30D levels, and reduces the differences between 5D and 30D to basically just sensor crop.
350D - reduced functionality but good imaging capability
30D - full functionality 1.6 (ie, spot metering, ISO increments, etc)
5D - full functionality 35mm-frame size
1xxxx - pro
It should make the 30D vs. 350D decisions easier for people.. now there's a more tangible difference than just control layout.
Yup, the megapixel race in the low-end cameras is over. Canon doesn't care that the D200 has 10MP, and why compare the D200 to the 30D anyway? Nikon's line and Canon's line of cameras are totally different.
Canon doesn't need to step ahead of Nikon with an equivalent model everytime a new camera like the D200 is released. Canon is already ahead. They've been ahead for years.
IraGraham wrote:
Who agrees with me that the 30D is a missed step by Canon? I predict slow sales from the start. I was looking forward to using it as a backup for the 5D until I saw the specs. An 8 megapix sensor.................................is Canon crazy or what? I will wait now and save my $1600 worth of disposable income. The Nikon 200D is far better in my estimation. Canon should have waited another month so they could upgrade the sensor to a little higher then the 200D. Then they would have had great sales. They are gonna loose big time. The only people that will buy are those that just have to have the latest version of a camera. I encourage everyone to keep their 20D and upgrade next year. What do you guys think?
Also I am not excited about the new 85L. Way to overpriced if you ask me....Show more →
I totally disagree. The difference between 8 and 10 MP is incremental, and you'd struggle to show discernable resolution differences. Remember that to double resolution, you'd have to quadruple the MP. And the D200 at ISO 1600 and up isn't in the same league as the 20/30D. Don't get so hung up on the megapixel marketing.
I do agree with you, though, about the new 85L, and that I'll be keeping my 20D for a while longer, and happily so.
Seems like a decent upgrade to me . what did evryone expect a new camera , its a replacement so it was only going to have things that canon have seen and been told by all the 20D users over the last 18months what was needed to make the 20d even greater.
iso in the viewfinder was one complaint and the rest i think you can see have been corrected in this 30D ,
Did Nikon not do this with there 70 model .
so i can't see any reason for complaints, if you ant a higher spec body buy a 1series or a 5d ,
technocraft wrote:
I don't need more megapixels on the 20D.
Me neither. 4 is enough, in fact.
The spot metering would be handy, and the ISO in 1/3 increments, but what the 30D really needed was a buffer that holds 20 RAW files, not 11, and maybe a 20-point hybrid AF system with even better low light performance than the 20D. Now *that* would have been an upgrade.
They certainly aren't getting any cash from me for this "upgrade."
Can't wait for my 1D to arrive!
Edited by cogitech on Feb 21, 2006 at 05:22 PM GMT
I find it hilarious to see how so many people are upset with Canon because they refused to release a camera with horrible noise and banding problems. Yeah! Canon sucks! <_<
, but I can confirm it fixes most of the things I regret with the 10D: addition of a spot meter, 1/3 ISO, ISO in the viewfinder when setting it, improvement of the power efficiency, larger and better screen, better control of choice of AF points, selectable high speed mode. These changes are definetely worth more for me than an upgrade of the sensor to 10MP. I still regret the viewfinder is not much improved.