Canon vs. Canon
I purchased a Digital Rebel over year and half ago. My reason was the speed over the point & shoots. Since that time it appears that the point and shoots are rapidly closing the gap in the speed, AF tracking, and higher ISO categories.
In addition, the zooms that are availible keep increasing. For example, you could now buy a 28-300mm zoom on a point and shoot, with a body that has anti-shake,
and possibly have moderate niose all the way up to 800, maybe 1600. This with a $500-$700 price range!
Or you could buy a 20D ($1200)+300f4 ($1200) = $2,400!!
Call me crazy but it appears that the technology for the little guys is rapidly approaching the DSLR. And the reasons we opted for the DLSR are becoming fewer and fewer.
My question is: Do the folks in the Canon DSLR Design group communicate with the folks at Canon Point and shoot Design group? Could they be on pace to compete head to head with each other?
DSLRs just offer things that P+Ss can not. Image Quality being the big one. The design of a DSLRs sensor is just on a different level. Also that 28-300 lens on a p+s is actually something like 6-72 so you have fewer DoF options. No low light performance since the high zoom cameras like the S2IS and Pro 1 only go to ISO 400. etc. etc.
You are correct about more than just speed.
But it appears that the technology in the P+S's are moving at a faster rate than the DSLR's. They do not compare today, I am simply suggesting that is it possible , in the near future, that they could compete head to head?
IMO a P&S camera will never be a substitute to a SLR camera. SLR's are more flexable, offer better picture quality, the ability to change lenses,TTL viewfinder, fast shutter response/low shutter lag, The list goes on.
The only thing I would say a P&S camera would have over a SLR is the size and weight advantage.
No I know sorry if I came across as condescending. I just don't see a Point and Shoot ever existing on the same level as an SLR. Two entirely different tools for different jobs.
No problem. I was just curious if the Big Wigs at Canon had a "technolgy barrier" inplace to make sure that the PS group does not become equal to or even pass the DSLR gang.
New technology is developed everyday.
Somebody once told me that 32meg was all the hard drive I would ever need!!
Well yes technology is advancing but unless something major, and I mean really major, happens then there just is not the physical space in a P+Ss body to allow it to have the lens or sensor quality of an SLR. I personally feel that right now camera technology for P+Ss has sort of plateaued and all you will see are more megapixels, larger LCDs, and lower prices.
SLRs will always have the technological advantages, that is why I am excited for the 20D replacement since the midrange SLR is always where Canon has introduced new stuff. I think the Elan was the first series with Eye-Control. The 10D was the first camera with DIGIC, the 20D with DIGICII, etc. etc.
And of course there is always the possibility that they are hiding something big like a merged 1-series with FF and 8.5 FPS which is why its sort of silly to speculate with technology. Just buy what works for your budget at that time and go out and take pictures and be happy with your camera no matter what it is.
In many industries and products, features are incorporated first at the amateur/consumer level long before being added to the advanced/professional level (heck, even Photoshop CS2 incorporates some features that first appeared in Elements).
There is a fundamental conservatism at the top product line in many industries (e.g., most luxury cars keep a familiar styling look for far more model years than most economy cars do), due in part to not wanting to use high-level buyers as guinea pigs and due in part to not wanting high-level buyers to feel like they're investing in something fleeting or ephemeral.
Those who buy low-end products, on the other hand, often *want* a sort of "disposable" feeling about their purchases so that they can feel good about pushing it aside and moving on to the next new thing.
I'm sure Canon Professional division is aware of what Canon Consumer is doing, but there's no reason they should be threatened by it, for reasons others explain above in defending the advantages of SLRs.
If the point-and-shoots have a feature that SLRs would benefit from, the SLR division won't hesitate to adopt it after it's been tried.
I only wish point-and-shoots had reflex mirrors so that the resulting easy-to-use mirror-lockup button could be adopted by Canon's Professional division!
Point & Shoot doesn't come anywhere near an SLR...
However, some of the "Advanced" Digitals are getting closer. But that's because they are P&S with a lot of Manual Control. Here's why a P&S sucks:
No control over Plane of Focus
No control over Depth of Field
No Depth of Field Preview
No control over Shutter Speed
All of the aforementioned give you total control over the final image.
To the extent that P&S gives you some or total control over the above listed, the closer the quality the camera comes to the SLR.
I donot predict that the SLR and P&S will converge at any point in the future. The main reason is that the average consumer does not want control. They simply want to the camera to take the picture.
will pocket-sized p&s ever be as good as SLR in the same generation? naw. with more space available, advancing technology will always allow more photosites and bigger bells & whistles in a bigger box.
will pocket-sized p&s ever be as good as the SLR's we're using today? i would certainly expect so! if they gain about 1 stop of effective sensitivity (in terms of noise reduction) every, say, 5 years (a conservative estimate, if history serves us), then within 15 or so years you should be able to have a pocket digicam with a very clean 8+ mpxl sensor, shooting as ISO 3200, with a 28-200mm equivalent f2.8 lens. now, by then the SLR's will be shooting with clean ISO 12800...but there comes a point where you just plain have enough light to shoot, and don't need more.
so yes, i do think there will come a day when pocket digicams without flash can produce beautiful 4x6 prints in very dark situations, when it will become very difficult for hobbyists to justify upgrading, and where the renaissance of "brother-in-law at the wedding" photography whittles away at our bottom line.
moral of the story: make sure you contribute to your IRA this year, but don't fret.
Theres only one thing you can do with a p&s that can't be done an SLR.... you can carry the p&s in your front shirt pocket.
They're getting a lot better, but will we ever see a point and shoot that can do everything a 20d and a 50 1.4 can do, and do it as well? That would be something to see.
I think the manufacturers are already missing the boat with the p&s's anyway. I hear all the time what great pictures the 1D would produce with it's limited megapixels... and yet these guys are cranking out point and shoots with 7-8 megapixels now just to say they have one. Instead they should be sticking around 4mp and improving noise/quality/range etc. The majority of people who buy these only print 4x6 anyway.
What really drives me nuts is that I really need to buy one so that I can have it on me when I can't carry the 20d... but I only want something like the SD300. Of course instead of continuing to make the thing and sell it at a lower price, Canon has completely discontinued the sucker.
The people who buy P&Ss generally don't know or care to know about ISO, aperture, hyperfocal distance etc.They are led to believe that more MPs means a better camera and for most folks, that's as far as they'll ever get. Will P&Ss ever catch up to DSLRs ? No. Technology filters down, not up. Any new advancements in the world of P&Ss will already be old technology for DSLRs and the larger formats. Plus they're restricted by their size and price point. The other formats don't have these restrictions.
There's a common misconception that as a given technology advances, the price continually drops until the manufacturers are giving stuff away. We'd like to think that, but we know it's not true. I wouldn't expect to see a Canon 5D type camera being sold at P&S prices anytime soon. The two formats can't and won't overlap, there's no commercial or practical reason for it.
P&S, 35mmSLRs, DSLRs. Medium and Large Format all have their place,depends on want you want out of your photography, and never the twain shall meet. If you just want to take snapshots and don't want to be bothered with the technicalities, get a P&S.There are descent ones out there that do a good job within the confines of the format.
If you want more, you gotta look up.
Happy New Year everyone, keep looking up !
P&S cameras are still ridiculously slow when it comes to focus, shutter lag, and shot-to-shot speed. Although they are getting better, the performance is still worlds away from SLR capabitity... Try shooting a sporting event with one of these. Very frustrating.
Well, I just was thumbing thru the B&H catalog and noticed alot of PS's with alot more features than, say, a year ago. I tried one once and good grief it was terrible. No threat of me taking that route! Never could get used to the whole idea of not looking thru a viewfinder.
Thanks for all of the response, like I mentioned before I have often wondered if the DSLR designers ever glance over their shoulder to see if they were being closely followed by the PS's.
The truth of the matter is, most people shouldnt have DSLR's. I am glad they have them to support Canon and that N company but its way to much camera for holidays and birthdays.
for xmas, I grab a body, put it on P and shoot. I dont mess with exposure at all. I have 3 DSLR's and a dozen lenses for when I am shooting Advertising, Product, Sports, and more Nature.
I do hope P&S catches up more so I can spend $5-700 and have 2.8 constant aperture zoom lens and a flash with a guide number.
There will always be situations where side-by-side some P&S cameras will take pictures that are equivalent to an SLR. However, there will be far more situations where the P&S can never hope to compete.
1. The small sensors in the P&S are generally noisier.
2. Lenses get scratched. When that happens on the P&S you are out of luck.
3. Flexibility - for the family snapshot, the P&S is fine. Try shooting some sports and getting the DOF just the way you want it. No RAW either.
4. Construction - The first time that P&S hits the pavement real hard, look out for flying glass and look for the closest garbage can
5. That 28-300 zoom on the P&S may be nice, but even L glass with that big a range has issues. One or both ends are likely to have significant distortion and you can't change out to a prime that does not..
I don't know. I guess I will be the contrarian. While currently, SLR's have huge advantages over point and shoots, there is no reason why the technological barriers cannot be overcome and the speed issues and other problems with point and shoots eliminated. A case in point is the new Sony 10 megapixel point and shoot. Heck, it uses an APS-C size sensor (same as 20D) and a Zeiss lens. It produces wonderful images and since it is light and has no mirror slap, it can be handheld at slower shutter speeds. I have a friend who has one, is a pro photographer (has images in galleries) and uses the Sony as much or more than his new Nikon D200! He likes the lightness and the image quality. He is the first to admit its weaknesses such as speed (very slow--no sports applications) but he raves about the detail, contrast, quality of the lens, etc. He also claims it won't sell well since it is around $1,000 and is not at DSLR, but it may be a harbinger of things to come. Time will tell.
P+S format progress seems to be faster than DSLR only because of how far behind they have been, giving more potential for improvement. You can expect the brands that don't offer DSLRs to be aggressive in this area and although there will be some great features added, will still fall short of a DSLR. And a low priced DSLR like the XT vs. a high priced Sony APS-C model is no contest in my mind. To overcome the limitations of the P+S format, the Sony price would have to be sub-$500 to even interest me.
but its way to much camera for holidays and birthdays.