Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

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Archive 2005 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Kevin Yong
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p.1 #1 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

I have recently been checking out some of the Hartblei tilt shift lenses at the Kiev website. They seem a reasonable alternative to the expensive canon TSE lenses.

There are a few focal lengths to choose from, all at different prices. I'm most interested in the 45 for landscapes on FF and the 80 or 120 for macro shots.

I'd love to hear about any experiences with these lenses. Are they all of similar quality? Any paricular gems out of this bunch? I realise they are probably not as good as the canon TSEs.

Cheers
Kev.

Edited by Kevin Yong on Oct 17, 2005 at 10:50 AM GMT

Oct 17, 2005 at 12:51 AM

akivisuals
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p.1 #2 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

This isn't a Canon mount review, but it does cover the Hartblei Super Rotator.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/hartblei45.shtml

Hope this helps.

Oct 17, 2005 at 01:22 AM

BrianP
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p.1 #3 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Hi Kevin:

In case you are interested, someone is selling one here...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/295640

Oct 17, 2005 at 01:46 AM

Kevin Yong
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p.1 #4 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Thanks guys,

The review of the 45 looks great.
I like the super rotator series as they can shift and tilt in any direction. This is an advantage over the canon TSEs but I don't know how the image quality compares.

I have found 2 sites where these are available.
hartblei.com and kievcamera.com.

Prices at Kiev are:
45 super rotator - confusing - listed as 725 (under medium format lenses menu) as well as 899-999 (in the harblei lenses page). I have emailed the seller for clarification.
65 super rotator - $329 - as per the link that brian posted. The sample in that post looked quite good to me.
80 super rotator - $499.

Anyone seen reviews of the 65 and 80. Are there any other similar lenses of different brands that I might want to consider?

Any more comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Kevin

Oct 17, 2005 at 03:01 AM

discreet
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p.1 #5 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Those prices are inflated

Buy them off ebay... it is wierd that kievcamera.com has an ebay store but the prices are way lower..

check this out for the 80 super rotator
http://stores.ebay.com/www-kievcamera-com_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQdptZ0QQftidZ2QQtZkm

I bought a 16FE from them before and they take a pretty long time to ship... so check it out first...

Also the 45 rotator is meant for medium format...

Oct 17, 2005 at 03:11 AM

charlesk
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p.1 #6 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

The 45 is expensive.. the others are much more reasonable.

I have an 80 and it is a neat lens. Very unique, clever design, but can be hard to rotate the various elements. The unique draw is that it lets you tilt in any direction AND shift in any direction simultaneously.

Built like a tank. No plastic on these puppies.

I tested mine against my TS-E 90. They were reasonably close stopped down, but the TS-E kicked the snot out of it wide open. Still, a nice cheap way to get into T/S on a budget. --c

Oct 17, 2005 at 03:14 AM

Kevin Yong
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p.1 #7 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

discreet: Also the 45 rotator is meant for medium format...

Here is a quote from the Kiev site:
"This is a BRAND NEW Hartblei Multicoated 45mm f 3.5 Shift and Tilt Super Rotator lens in P6 mount. You can use this lens with Mamiya 645 ( P6/Mamiya adapter is $20) Pentax 645 ( $35) Or any 35mm cameras such as Canon EOS, Nikon AI, Pentax K, Yashika. It offers a full 12 millimeters of shift up and down or side to side and 8 degree tilt in ANY !!! directions"

I'm not sure which mount and adapter I would need for the 45. I am waiting a reply from the seller.

Charles, thanks for the info. I'd like to use the 80 fairly wide open to isolate element of a subject. Looks interesting but might have to save up for the 90.

kev

Oct 17, 2005 at 03:35 AM

charlesk
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p.1 #8 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Okay I dug up an old test I did of the Hartblei 80 v my TSE-90. Not the most scientific test, and since we are dealing with manual focus that might have been a factor, but I believe I did try a few shots of each.

At f/8 they are close but it is clear that the TS-E is sharper (left). --c

Oct 17, 2005 at 03:41 AM

charlesk
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p.1 #9 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

At f/2.8, however, there is no contest at all. --c

Oct 17, 2005 at 03:42 AM

Kevin Yong
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p.1 #10 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Thanks Charles, nice comparison.

Just found a few more TS lenses which can be mounted on Canon.
araxfoto.com/specials/.
These are around the same price range.

The 80 and 35 look interesting. Anyone try these before?

Kev

Oct 17, 2005 at 04:35 AM

CorruptedSanit
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p.1 #11 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

someone said that the 55mm hartblie TS would have a 136mm FOV on a Canon 1.6x

is this true?

Oct 20, 2005 at 09:15 PM

WebDog
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p.1 #12 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Swedish site selling T/S stuff...
http://www.shiftlenses.com

Arax Shift 45/2,8 $450
Arax Shift 80/2,8 $338
Arax Tilt/Shift 80/2,8 $398
Arax Tilt/Shift 35/2,8 $478
Hartblei Tilt/Shift 65/3,5 $382
Pentax 67 Shift adapter for Canon $792
Prices without the Swedish 25% VAT but not sure if he does export outside of
the nordic countries. He responded to my e-mail within an hour

/Lasse

Oct 20, 2005 at 10:02 PM

Yakim Peled
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p.1 #13 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Hi Charles,

For some reason I can't see the pictures. All I see is a little red X. Can you post a link or something?

TIA.

Jun 21, 2006 at 06:16 AM

nguyenhm16
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p.1 #14 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

There's a pretty detailed user review of the Hartblei 35mm on that other site:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=17612257

Jun 21, 2006 at 10:42 AM

Yakim Peled
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p.1 #15 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Very interesting.
Thanks.

Jun 21, 2006 at 10:59 AM

shirozina
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p.1 #16 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Note that the shift on the 35mm is limited to 11mm each way - the Zuiko 35mm shift is a very good performer with a similar shift range and cheaper on the used market.

Jun 21, 2006 at 01:22 PM

Mr Joe
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p.1 #17 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

someone said that the 55mm hartblie TS would have a 136mm FOV on a Canon 1.6x

Nope - a 55mm lens is the equivalent of 88mm on a 1.6x body.

Jun 21, 2006 at 02:11 PM

picnic
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p.1 #18 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Since this thread has opened up again, I have a few questions. I currently have a Hartblei 35 f/2.8 super rotator OO with Kiev (Atlanta) but it seems that they are having some problems with delivery from the Ukraine (as I understand it, Mike Fourneman is in the Ukraine right now and supposedly sending more of these lenses back but I've been continually pushed back on my order for the 35).

So--my questions is---since I'm pretty 'ignorant' of the possibilities---they have a MF 45 superrotator--which is actually an even better FL for me (I rented the Canon 24 TSE and decided it was wider than I wanted)---but, what kind of adaptor would I have to have to use the MF with and EOS mount--and is it even possible---AND--would I be able to use the full range of tilt and shift using an adaptor.

On a search on dpreview, I found someone that was planning to use the MF 45 on his 1DsMkII but I cannot find the post any longer--so am hoping that I can find the answer here in the alternative forum.

BTW--I do not want a shift only lens--I see the possibilities for those, but def. want a tilt/shift

Diane

Jun 26, 2006 at 01:28 PM

Doug Morgan
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p.1 #19 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Diane:

I have the 45mm medium format Super Rotator on order for the 1ds2. You do need an adapter but since everything is manual anyway (focus & aperture) there is no need to stick to a lens mount specific to Canon or 35mm. I have another thread on this forum discussing it and the alternatives. In fact I was going to add some information to it this morning.

I too am having trouble getting a delivery date out of Kiev camera. They say it has been shipped but no charges have been made to VISA which I find contradictory. I need it by the end of the month.

For an adapter I've got a shifting adapter made in the Ukraine on order. If you look at araxphoto.com they have it listed there, along with a variety of other adapters. I ordered the shifting adapter in order to do architectural panoramas with both a rise (to correct perspective) and a left/right shift to increase field of view and resolution.

There is one thing though, when they say that this lens is the equivelent of 24mm on 35mm that does not mean that it will function as a 24mm lens when mounted via adapter to a 35mm body. It means that on a MF camera the field of view would be the same as a 24mm lens made for 35mm would be mounted on a 35mm body.

To give some numbers to the last point I have to go from memory as I can't find my notes but with a full frame camera (1ds2) and a regular adapter (that doesn't shift) the field of view in equivelent terms for a fully shifted pano was about 35mm. With the shifted adapter I ordered (and similar for the Zork unit of the original poster) the expanded field of view gets to between 24 and 28mm. Taking a single frame is still 45mm on a full frame 35mm body.

With this Medium format TS lens and even a full frame 35mm with a shift adapter the entire range is still within the normal 6x6 image circle so I am expecting fairly good results if I ever get a chance to try it out. I will post to my thread if it ever shows up.

Doug

Jun 26, 2006 at 02:04 PM

picnic
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p.1 #20 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Doug Morgan wrote:
Diane:

I have the 45mm medium format Super Rotator on order for the 1ds2. Doug

Doug, you are the one I was referring to---but I was thinking I read the thread on dpreview. I would be interested in the 45 but am still not sure if I would be able to use the full tilt and shift using an adaptor. I looked at the Arax shift adaptor, but don't I just need an adaptor that will handle the mount to EOS mount?

I'm looking at the Kiev site now--and the 45 MF lens and it says that it will fit the EOS mount. I really am totally unknowledgable about this. Since its a manual focus lens--are you saying that the bayonet mount will just work on the 5D 'as is' (of course I know there are not contacts, etc--and it full manual)? (Maybe I need to read some of these other threads on here from other newbies to alternative lenses--not understanding if that is possible or not--boy, do I feel dumb LOL).

So--you are saying you are buying the shift adapto to extend that shift?

Kiev IS frustrating, isn't it? They have been telling me for several weeks that the 35 is coming from the Ukraine--supposedly Mike is there now and shipping back to Atlanta. Idon't 'need' this lens immediately, but really do want a TS as soon as possible for a variety of reasons. I've even considered the ARax 35 which is available.

Diane

Jun 26, 2006 at 02:24 PM

Doug Morgan
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p.1 #21 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Diane:

Are you looking at this page: http://www.kievcamera.com/hartblei.shtml

These are all medium format lens and do not come with a mount for Canon. Hartblei does make a few 35mm versions that can be had with an EOS mount. I don't see the listing for the 35mm FL though -- the widest I see is 65mm (80 @ f2.8).

For a lens with a canon mount you don't need an adapter but for the medium format lens what you need is an adapter that mechanically connects the lens to the camera (there are no electrical connections). Since the space from the mount of an MF lens to the sensor/film plane is much larger than on a Canon there's lots of room for an adapter.

You don't need the shift adapter to use the TS lens as a tilt-shift lens on your Canon, pretty much any adapter will do. I wanted it so that I could shift in two directions at once and I think the original poster wanted the Zork (also a shifting adapter) so that he could shift further than the lens itself allows.

I was going to give Kiev until tomorrow and try them again. If you look at the thread I started (Panoramas and TS) there is some discussion about other options and in fact I just added another one.

Doug

Jun 26, 2006 at 02:37 PM

picnic
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p.1 #22 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Thanks Doug, I'm actually looking at this page
http://www.kievcamera.com/product.php?ID=175
and where it says "...You can use this lens with Mamiya 645 ( P6/Mamiya adapter is $20) Pentax 645 ( $35)
Or any 35mm cameras such as Canon EOS, Nikon AI, Pentax K, Yashika
It offers a full 12 millimeters of shift up and down or side to side"

So what I would need would just be an adapbot for MF mount (would one have to choose one?) to EOS mount?. Guess I wlll do some searches of this forum for what others find works best--if I decide to go this route.

Then again, since I'm going to have to buy an adaptor plus the $725, maybe I'm getting close enough to the cost of the Canon 45 TSE to reconsider it again LOL--but I would lose the flexibility to use tilt/shift more flexibility..

Jun 26, 2006 at 02:45 PM

Doug Morgan
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p.1 #23 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Diane:

That's the same lens I ordered and it DOES require an adapter. It is a medium format lens. The adapters are cheap and as I noted above you don't need a shifting adapter. You need to specify the mount on the lens (Mamiya 645, Pentax 645, Pentacon 6, etc) and then also order an adapter that goes from your chosen MF mount to Canon EOS. I picked pentacon 6 for 2 reasons --> one is that it is the only mount usable with the cheap shift adapter and, two, because the P6 mount can be adapted to the Pentax or Mamiya mounts.

The medium format lens has a larger image circle and in theory at least could provide good results using it on a 35mm camera as the smaller size would keep the image in the sweet spot, even at maximum shift.

For the prices look on ebay first -- I was charged the ebay price though I called them direct and was instructed to order through the regular website (it didn't make sense at the time either). Kiev either doesn't update the website very often or the prices are rather variable. I am supposed to pay (they haven't charged VISA yet) 599 (US$) for the lens. EBAY link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HARTBLEI-45mm-F3-5-Super-Rotator-Kiev-88-CM-Kiev-60-P6_W0QQitemZ7627356152QQihZ017QQcategoryZ710QQcmdZViewItem

If you aren't going to use the lens for panoramas (with lots of shift) and don't require both shift and rise (for architectural panoramas) you may very well be happier with the Canon TSE lens. I was comparing more to the 24mm TSE which just wasn't going to do it. The Canon 45mm (and 90) TSE's are reputedly much sharper than the 24 and appear to have much less distortion. The Canon's come up used quite often on the buy and sell forum.

Doug

Edited by Doug Morgan on Jun 26, 2006 at 07:36 AM GMT

Jun 26, 2006 at 03:01 PM

picnic
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p.1 #24 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

That's very helpful information Doug--and now I do understand. I thought I would have to specify the lens mount--and now I know. I can see where the larger image circle would certainly be a benefit also. That's a consideration.

Kiev had told me to order through the site also---but then when I called 2 weeks later---they had no record of me ordering--though I did it exactly the way they told me (since its not on the page---I had to do it through email). Now I've been talking to Veronica there and she's supposed to alert me when the lens comes in and before they charge my CC.

Diane

Jun 26, 2006 at 03:19 PM

Doug Morgan
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p.1 #25 · Hartblei TS lenses on Canon

Veronica is a busy woman. My lens is supposedly on the way directly to Canada from the Ukraine and the charges are supposed to appear tomorrow.

We shall see....
Doug

Jun 26, 2006 at 03:22 PM


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