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Roland Jenkins Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #1 · "Soft Images"... the norm? Having read a number of DSLR Reviews ... in particular for the D70s; I have come across phrases such as: "As with most DSLR's the Images are somewhat soft" Is this some sort of defect akin to DSLR's .... Is it to be expected? Is this GOOD? More to the point... Is it that noticable to Joe Public anyway, or does the term "soft" require laboratory conditions to analyse it's presence? _______________________________________________________ As you may of guessed... I do not yet own, (nor have I as yet even used) a Digital Camera of any description. I am climbing a steep learning curve prior to swapping from Film. Current Camera: Nikon 801 Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 27, 2005 at 08:47 PM

burner Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #2 · "Soft Images"... the norm? A lot of it depends upon the camera. The Canon DSLR's in particular will look soft out of the camera. This has to do with the anti-aliasing filter, as well as Canon's in camera sharpening being somewhat on the weak side. The Nikon's with CMOS sensors are supposedly sharp out of the camera (no experience with this, so can't comment). The D2X still requires some sharpening during processing, but not as much as the Canon 1D mk2 or 10D I used to own. If you are looking into purchasing a DSLR, you just need to know the pictures usually require post processing, and normally some USM in photoshop to sharpen them up. Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 27, 2005 at 09:16 PM

Jack OBrien Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #3 · "Soft Images"... the norm? Ditto what burner said...... A trap that a lot of people fall into, they oversharpen digital images to the point it hurts your eyes. For a good comparison, look at film You will notice, in all probability, the 'softness' of out of the camera images. It's completely normal A lot of the confusion lies in the fact that different cameras require different amounts/types of sharpening, and it is indeed a learning curve. My D100 required a good bit of sharpening, the Kodak slr/n required a larger pixel radius than the D2X, because it's an entirely different type/size of sensor, everyone of them were different, and it's just something that you just have to learn. Jack Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 28, 2005 at 12:10 AM

brandofamily Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #4 · "Soft Images"... the norm? Jacko, I was going to post a new topic, but I think this thread fits my question. Speaking of sharpening... I've started shooting w/ a local pro. I guess you'd say he's mentoring me in hope of putting me to work for him. We were shooting a local highschool football game friday night and he told me he ALWAYS turns off the in camera sharpening on his D100, and that I should do the same on my D70. We were shooting ISO 1600 and he said "do you want to sharpen your noise." Makes sense, but he wants me to shoot JPEG ONLY w/o any post processing. Does this sound like a recipe for soft images or am I nuts....I hate to go against his guidence, but I just can not get really sharp images w/ this set up. Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 28, 2005 at 12:42 AM

Jack OBrien Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #5 · "Soft Images"... the norm? brandofamily wrote: Jacko, I was going to post a new topic, but I think this thread fits my question. Speaking of sharpening... I've started shooting w/ a local pro. I guess you'd say he's mentoring me in hope of putting me to work for him. We were shooting a local highschool football game friday night and he told me he ALWAYS turns off the in camera sharpening on his D100, and that I should do the same on my D70. We were shooting ISO 1600 and he said "do you want to sharpen your noise." Makes sense, but he wants me to shoot JPEG ONLY w/o any post processing. Does this sound like a recipe for soft images or am I nuts....I hate to go against his guidence, but I just can not get really sharp images w/ this set up. In theory, I agree with what he told you. I don't know if the D70 has 'high-iso NR' as a feature, but I do know that there is some noise reduction when the jpeg is processed in camera. Sharpening will sharpen noise but I think you have to find the balance, when shooting jpeg, just how much sharpening is required to get the look you want or how much you can do without. The D70 has a 'lighter' AA filter than the D100, so I would imagine the D70 would take less sharpening than the D100. Since you'll be shooting for this photographer, you will have to produce the look he's going for, so I would follow his advice and see how you like it. Jack Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 28, 2005 at 01:06 AM

George61d Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #6 · "Soft Images"... the norm? brandofamily wrote: Jacko, I was going to post a new topic, but I think this thread fits my question. Speaking of sharpening... I've started shooting w/ a local pro. I guess you'd say he's mentoring me in hope of putting me to work for him. We were shooting a local highschool football game friday night and he told me he ALWAYS turns off the in camera sharpening on his D100, and that I should do the same on my D70. We were shooting ISO 1600 and he said "do you want to sharpen your noise." Makes sense, but he wants me to shoot JPEG ONLY w/o any post processing. Does this sound like a recipe for soft images or am I nuts....I hate to go against his guidence, but I just can not get really sharp images w/ this set up. If your shooting jpegs at 1600 then I would agree turning off in camera sharpening is a must. As for the rest of your mentor's guidance he is in fact also correct. Pro sports shooters, particularly those of the press or agencies, work to extremely tight deadlines often transmitting images while the game/competition is still being played. You mentor is forcing you into the habit of getting it right first time which will help you in a pro career. That said from a personal point of view. I am a little surprised at using 1600. I shoot and sell a lot of sports images and find beyond 800 is too problematic. The real trick for sharp images in sports photography is AF technique and an understanding/use of DOF. The D70, while a great camera, is really too slow in AF-C for most sports, so you end up with a high percentage of soft or out of focus images. Since you are shooting in low light conditions I am assuming that you are also using large apertures and tend to be up around the 150-200 end of your zoom. With this lens you are really talking about capturing realtively close action, which means you have a small DOF to work with. This limits the type of shots that you can take sucessfully. Any way as Jack said listen to your mentor and see how it works for you over time. Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 28, 2005 at 08:18 AM

papageno Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #7 · "Soft Images"... the norm? I don't reaally agree that images are expected to be soft direct from the camera. My good ones aren't soft as raw images. With either D70 or D100. I do have good lenses, which I think helps. (All 2.8 Nikon zooms) That said, shooting sports is a handful with either camera for the reasons listed above. I find routine use of noise ninja is a big help with noise, particularly at high speeds, and it definitely sharpens the image, usually in a useful way. It makes 3200 on the D100 passable, and 1600 pretty good on either. Left to my own devices, I'd rather shoot raw and pursue the image I saw in my mind....but jpg is more efficient for some professional uses. Wedding folks are big on it because it cuts the workflow. Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 28, 2005 at 09:25 PM

Osai Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #8 · "Soft Images"... the norm? I rarely get a soft image from my D70 or D2X when I shoot in raw. I wonder if its really a focusing problem for many people. I never get one when I focus manually. Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 28, 2005 at 09:45 PM

burner Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #9 · "Soft Images"... the norm? Osai wrote: I rarely get a soft image from my D70 or D2X when I shoot in raw. I wonder if its really a focusing problem for many people. I never get one when I focus manually. I wouldn't say the files coming out of the D2X are "soft" per say (I also shoot RAW). I've just noticed that adding a little USM in Photoshop (Threshold 0, Diameter 1, 100 percent), to the JPEG's give the photo the extra "pop" that I prefer. As everyone's tastes for sharpness are different, some may find my look Over/Under sharpened. It all depends upon what you prefer. That is one of the things I prefer about shooting with DSLR's. While the post-processing may be tedious at times, the ability to fine tune the picture to get the look that I like is rewarding in the end. Edited on Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM Sep 28, 2005 at 11:08 PM

Jack OBrien Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #10 · "Soft Images"... the norm? burner wrote: Osai wrote: I rarely get a soft image from my D70 or D2X when I shoot in raw. I wonder if its really a focusing problem for many people. I never get one when I focus manually. I wouldn't say the files coming out of the D2X are "soft" per say (I also shoot RAW). I've just noticed that adding a little USM in Photoshop (Threshold 0, Diameter 1, 100 percent), to the JPEG's give the photo the extra "pop" that I prefer. As everyone's tastes for sharpness are different, some may find my look Over/Under sharpened. It all depends upon what you prefer. That is one of the things I prefer about shooting with DSLR's. While the post-processing may be tedious at times, the ability to fine tune the picture to get the look that I like is rewarding in the end. I think 'soft' may be the wrong word, no amount of sharpening is going to fix a truly soft image. I agree, all digital images benefit from some sharpening, and to personal preference, as you say. Sep 29, 2005 at 12:46 AM

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