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Archive 2003 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons

  
 
Jeffrey Behr
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


Sniff...sniff (nose in air)...I don't need no stinkin' expensive converter software; I already got 2 and one of those cost me $105! he said (sort of).

Last week I bought Adobe's Camera Raw (that was the $105), and I started noticing more color noise in the dark sections of my newly converted images. Then my friend Jim got me thinking, and then I read all the threads about this on Miranda and Galbraith, and then I downloaded Phase One's Capture One DSLR Monday nite, and...guess what...I DO need a stinkin' expensive converter program. DAMN!

In preliminary results, Capture One DSLR (C1) was the clear winner--LOTS less noise but detail retained--over Canon FVU and Adobe Camera Raw, with ACR's results the noisiest. My friend reminded me that others have said that one must use some smoothing in ACR (I had used zero each for sharpness and smoothness), so I then used ACR's defaults for sharpness and smoothness, 25 each. Most of the noise was gone, but so was lots of the detail (hmm...maybe Adobe's smoothness filter is just gaussian blur!). So I converted again using 25 sharpness and 15 smoothness, and then 25 sharpness and 10 smoothness. Some of the detail came back with each reduction of smoothing but so did some of the noise.

I then figured out...no easy task with the useless online Help (what a laugh!) and User's Guide...how to set C1's noise suppression (File/Preferences/Develop settings). Discovered that Medium was used for the prelims; set it to Low and converted again. I saw slightly more noise and maybe slightly more detail with it on Low rather than Medium. I'll have to live with this for a few days to see what real images (prints) look like, but C1's results still look better than the other 2's results.

Overall, there's still no contest for me--C1 is the best, even if it is clunky to use. Its 'unintuitiveness' reminds me of the difference between the D60's and 1Ds's menuing systems--the D60's is effective and easy to use while the 1Ds's is difficult to use and effective in spite of itself.

Please e-mail me if you'd like to see my 8 samples. 100% crops in 8-bit TIFs will occupy about 900K, or if you want smaller files, quality-12 JPGs will occupy about 300K. If you don't state which you want, you'll get the JPGs.

Jeffrey Behr.



Mar 06, 2003 at 06:08 PM
sdai
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


jefreybehr wrote:
(hmm...maybe Adobe's smoothness filter is just gaussian blur!).

Jeffrey Behr.


Hi, Jeffrey, I hate to say this but you're just damn right

Salut,



Mar 06, 2003 at 06:15 PM
JohnM
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


>Overall, there's still no contest for me--C1 is the best, even if it is clunky to use.

I thought it was clunky at first also but it's second nature to me now.

Do you have the newest version with all the new KB shortcuts??

-John



Mar 06, 2003 at 07:09 PM
ShadowSteve
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


It would be great if PhaseOne would take a page from Microsoft's sales manual and price C1 at 99$ rather than 500$. They would probably sell 10 times as many copies and it would be a no-brainer to buy their software. Of course that would eliminate all the threads analyzing which RAW convertor is better.

Well, back to my own C1 eval.

Steve



Mar 06, 2003 at 07:44 PM
JohnM
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


>They would probably sell 10 times as many copies

I can't argue with that

-John



Mar 06, 2003 at 08:49 PM
jwarthman
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


Jeffrey,
Thanks for posting yoru observations. I'm eager to try C1 since a Mac version is now available - but I've been reading about serious problems with this version. Here is a thread from robgalbraith.com:

http://216.197.110.125/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB18&Number=112951&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Von Thomas makes some observations:

"I can convert in 16bit my 1D raw files, but I've tried to convert in 16bit a 1Ds file I've download from the net and C1 converts it always in 8bit (I can see it when I open the image in PS).
File size boxes are not active, even if you *could* achieve a given file size using the scaling box.
As mentioned, the "set as default for new captures" button is not active, ditto for the "Automatic adjust" button.
Mac version lacks also:
- Color editor
- Noise reduction setting
- De-Moirize filter as PS plug-in "


For me, the lack of 16-bit conversions and control over the noise reduction are show-stoppers. I hope Phase1 addresses these issues pronto!

Enjoy!

-- Jim



Mar 06, 2003 at 10:37 PM
Jack Flesher
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


Ya know, I hear all this about how great C1 is, but I have yet to see any substantive examples showing the difference. How about a sample comparison of C1 to ACR, without any sharpening or color adjustment -- just a straight conversion?

TIA!



Mar 06, 2003 at 10:41 PM
Jeffrey Behr
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


Jack, I offered to e-mail my samples. You may be 'hearing' a lot about C1 but you didn't read my note very well.


Mar 07, 2003 at 01:38 AM
dlashier
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


C1 is the best, even if it is clunky to use.

I find C1 anything BUT clunky. IMO it's interface is a model of logical, flexible, and efficient design. I've also updated my comparision to include Adobe CR. http://www.lashier.com/home.cfm?dir_cat=20503 Of particular note are the noise issues that you mentioned. Check the two "the gory details" pages for examples.

Bottom line for me, CR is a JOKE. It'll serve fine for consumers posting or emailing web pics or printing snapshots, but it's not even close to being a pro tool. IMO (re 1D images anyway) you're better off just shooting jpeg.

- DL



Mar 07, 2003 at 04:12 AM
JohnM
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


>. Check the two "the gory details" pages for examples.

Good examples DL, I have come to the same conclusion as you. Although the Adobe program is fast & easy to use, if image quality is important to you the Adobe RC is totally worthless(you are better off using the free software that comes with the camera).

I was really excited about the Adobe RC when it first came out & purchased it immediately figuring it could go hand in hand with CaptureOne, but unfortunately that did not turn out to be the case. Thankfully Adobe offers a 30 day refund policy so I can recoup the $99 I wasted on this useless program.

I really hope Adobe improves the converter so when PS version 8 comes out it works correctly.

-John



Mar 07, 2003 at 08:21 AM
rebel300
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


sdai wrote:
Hi, Jeffrey, I hate to say this but you're just damn right

Salut,



Are they giving ya'll a piece of the profits? Sheesh...

LM



Mar 07, 2003 at 08:38 AM
Jack Flesher
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


John M: Is it just my monitor, or does Y+ look better on the darks and slightly worse on the lights compared to C1?


Mar 07, 2003 at 10:31 AM
JohnM
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


>or does Y+ look better on the darks

It depends on what you mean by better I think. I find that with 1Ds files, I get more detail in the shadow area of an image converted with C1 than with Yarc. That doesn't always look better however. I think Yarc is a superb product that everyone should own(obviously not everybody is going to spend $500 on C1).

I called Adobe today & will be receiveing a refund on the CR program.

-John



Mar 07, 2003 at 02:21 PM
Jeffrey Behr
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


I repeat my offer to e-mail to anyone who asks my 8 100%-crop samples, either quality-12 JPGs or 8bit TIFs. The former total about 300KB, the latter 900KB.

[email protected]



Mar 07, 2003 at 07:06 PM
rebel300
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


Jack Flesher wrote:
John M: Is it just my monitor, or does Y+ look better on the darks and slightly worse on the lights compared to C1?



I remember a DPR post where Don Cohen favored Y+ over C1.
Lm



Mar 07, 2003 at 11:55 PM
Chad
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


just thought I would throw my link in here and what I found
I will make C1 my main tool now
I will still keep Addobe in my system for pulling in work etc.. not sure it will get used much ??
http://216.197.110.125/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB29&Number=113259



Mar 08, 2003 at 06:34 AM
Marco
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


jwarthman wrote:
Von Thomas makes some observations:

"I can convert in 16bit my 1D raw files, but I've tried to convert in 16bit a 1Ds file I've download from the net and C1 converts it always in 8bit (I can see it when I open the image in PS).
File size boxes are not active, even if you *could* achieve a given file size using the scaling box.
As mentioned, the "set as default for new captures" button is not active, ditto for the "Automatic adjust" button.
Mac version lacks also:
- Color editor
- Noise reduction setting
- De-Moirize filter as PS
...Show more

Well, those words are mine...
I've sent an e-mail to Phase One, wiating for their reply...


Ciao
Marco






Mar 08, 2003 at 07:38 AM
Marco
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


Jack Flesher wrote:
Ya know, I hear all this about how great C1 is, but I have yet to see any substantive examples showing the difference. How about a sample comparison of C1 to ACR, without any sharpening or color adjustment -- just a straight conversion?

TIA!


Hi Jack, I've made a comparison between C1 and Canon FUV.
See this thread at dpreview
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4542661

C1 is a wonderful software.

Ciao

Marco



Mar 08, 2003 at 07:44 AM
sdai
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


Ok, folks, ... got an email from Kenneth Laerke, Vice President of PhaseOne this morning (actually sent yesterday but I read it this morning, probably they're sending the same thing to registered or non-registered users as well, also PhaseOne used Chad's samples in their email), so now PhasOne is collecting the comparison samples, anyone who win the contest will have the chance to win a free product key, hey that's 500 dollars so maybe you guys want to give it a try?



Please provide the following information when you post your images to [email protected];

Name
Address
Zip / City
Country
E-mail
Phone
Phase One has the rights to use the images
Software conversion data (brand)
Camera data (brand)
Raw files
Please attach the Raw file
Jpeg file
Please attach the jpeg file


I was too busy these days yesterday went to demo something to a big guy now I have to come back in office and maybe it's another 30-40 hours straight ahead ... most of you guys are really so lucky to have some time to get your hands on your hobbies or run in-depth research like this ... keep up your good job and have fun

Simon



Mar 08, 2003 at 11:22 AM
jwarthman
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · My 1Ds image-converter comparisons


Marco,
You're right about my having quoted you - not Von. Sorry for the confusion!

In any case, I'm eager to hear what PhaseOne tells you about the Mac version.

Best Regards,

Jim



Mar 08, 2003 at 03:57 PM
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