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Archive 2017 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident

  
 
NCAndy
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


I shoot BB in our HS gym at 8000 ISO. I've had the problem of my camera "auto" adjusting the ISO when I sling it behind my back, I think the ISO button somehow gets pressed while the camera slides and the dial rotates. The end result is the ISO changes and in this case to 400 from 8000. It was the end of the game and I caught it after only a couple shots but this frame was the last shot of this senior's career and I was disappointed to see it so dark.

I got the file into LR and my import preset did little to fix the problem. Time to see what the 1Dx2 was made of, and I pushed the exposure 4.6 stops to get the resulting image. Not bad at all. Sharpness not optimized for this size.







Original exposure







After a 4.6 stop push in LR




Mar 02, 2017 at 10:10 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


The 1DX2 is relatively ISO-less from 400 up to 25600. Not as perfect as Nikon D7200 or D500 but still very good. This would be why you could recover without too much quality loss.







Mar 02, 2017 at 10:19 AM
RAF09
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


Nice save.


Mar 02, 2017 at 08:38 PM
Mike_5D
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


Awesome. This is why I almost never delete anything in-camera.


Mar 02, 2017 at 08:41 PM
jrhoffman75
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


Are plots of that available for other bodies?


Mar 02, 2017 at 09:55 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


jrhoffman75 wrote:
Are plots of that available for other bodies?


Yes, you can pick from almost every current camera. Check the Nikon D7200 to see a purely ISO-less camera.

http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm

Explanation is here: http://www.photonstophotos.net/GeneralTopics/Sensors_&_Raw/Sensor_Analysis_Primer/Photographic_Dynamic_Range_Shadow_Improvement.htm



Mar 02, 2017 at 10:23 PM
jrhoffman75
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


Thank you.


Mar 03, 2017 at 07:59 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


I see the point about ISO 400 onwards, but if somebody is really trying to get the best results they can in a wide DR situation, I would think minimally 1600 through 25600? The way I think I am to read those graphs is to find the flattest area, and then consider just using the ISO at the farthest left of that "line". Perhaps I am misunderstanding the intent though?

I have a 5D4, and looked at its graph, I am very confused on the huge spike at ISO 5000, in what otherwise seems to be a pretty flat area from 1250 through 16000.






Edited on Mar 03, 2017 at 08:34 AM · View previous versions



Mar 03, 2017 at 08:28 AM
M. Best
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


Very impressive!


Mar 03, 2017 at 08:31 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


TeamSpeed wrote:
I see the point about ISO 400 onwards, but if somebody is really trying to get the best results they can in a wide DR situation, I would think minimally 1600 through 25600?


Still with a Canon sensor you are better to shoot at the correct ISO in camera. The 1DX2 and 5D4 curves are better (just look at the 1DX and 5D3 curves to see how far they've come) but you will be penalized for using gain in post instead.



Mar 03, 2017 at 08:33 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


I agree, I always try to get the images correct in camera as much as possible, as I don't like to pull up shadows, or am not very good at it. Fortunately I never tax the DR of the cameras with what I shoot, thus why I don't have that kind of experience during post.

The graph also shows what I and just about everyone else thought, there was little improvement between the 5D and 5D2, thus why I was never really happy with that FF body.

I then add the 5D3 and think "what the heck?". Why such large jumps through the ISO scale...?



Mar 03, 2017 at 08:35 AM
NCAndy
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


I've been impressed with how malleable the 1Dx2 files are. It's rare I have to make such a huge adjustment but in this case I was glad it worked so well. From memory I don't think the 1Dx would have fared quite as well, though I think it would have had a workable result perhaps with a bit more noise.


Mar 03, 2017 at 08:43 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


Here are the two, but these graphs don't show how much shadow noise there is on a body due to electronic noise introduced by the camera. It shows that post processing yields about the same results on the 1DX as using a higher ISO, but there are improvements on the 1DX2 to using higher ISOs, than doing post pulling of shadows.

Top graph is the 1DX, and the bottom is the 1DX2.







Mar 03, 2017 at 09:10 AM
NCAndy
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


TeamSpeed wrote:
Here are the two, but these graphs don't show how much shadow noise there is on a body due to electronic noise introduced by the camera. It shows that post processing yields about the same results on the 1DX as using a higher ISO, but there are improvements on the 1DX2 to using higher ISOs, than doing post pulling of shadows.

Top graph is the 1DX, and the bottom is the 1DX2.


I'd have to think the 1 1/3 stop difference in DR at those ISOs between the two cameras would come into play with such a large push in post. The 1Dx2 is cleaner to start, that has to help. How much a difference in the any given photo is hard to say.



Mar 03, 2017 at 09:23 AM
adamx12m
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


On a 1D body I'll typically turn off the portrait mode shutter button when shooting. I've noticed when the camera is hanging on my side it's easy for the dial to change shutter speed unexpectedly. I've accidentally set spot metering in gyms causing problems but not that extreme.


Mar 03, 2017 at 10:57 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


@NCAndy, so when comparing 2 cameras, the farther up the worse the electronic read noise? That can't be the case either, because plugging in different cameras I am familiar with, the results don't match my or the industry's findings. For example the 50D and the 1DX2 are close to the same curve...

I don't know how you can use this site to compare 2 different cameras, other than to figure out where you have horizontal lines for ISO-less ranges.

I like this chart for read noise comparisons though.
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm

Edited on Mar 03, 2017 at 01:14 PM · View previous versions



Mar 03, 2017 at 12:55 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


TeamSpeed wrote:
@NCAndy@, so when comparing 2 cameras, the farther up the worse the electronic read noise? That can't be the case either, because plugging in different cameras I am familiar with, the results don't match my or the industry's findings. For example the 50D and the 1DX2 are close to the same curve...

I don't know how you can use this site to compare 2 different cameras, other than to figure out where you have horizontal lines for ISO-less ranges.


That specific graph isn't to compare ISO noise, it is to show how much penalty you get if you don't use the correct ISO (or exposure in general) in camera. Look at the 1DX vs 1DX2. You can see the 1DX is a big issue if you underexpose. There are other graphs to show DR and ISO noise but some of those even state that cameras can't be compared with them.

However at 2500 and up the 1DX is ISO-less essentially where the 1DX2 is still better to get it right in camera. However from ISO 100-2500 the 1DX needs to be properly exposed and the 1DX2 is a little more forgiving but you will still get a penalty if you underexpose and boost it in post.

D7200 is a flat curve along the bottom of the graph showing you can shoot at ISO 100 and push it in post say 5 stops to what would have been ISO 3200 and the noise and DR would be equal to if you shot at ISO 3200 to begin with. But on the Canon cameras, doing that will not net you the same result and pulling up 5 stops will result in a worse image than if you had used 3200 in the field.



Mar 03, 2017 at 01:08 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


So the 50D and the 1DX2 have very similar penalties of using analog gain vs digital leveling during post.


Mar 03, 2017 at 01:16 PM
NCAndy
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 1Dx2 underexposure accident


TeamSpeed wrote:
@NCAndy@, so when comparing 2 cameras, the farther up the worse the electronic read noise? That can't be the case either, because plugging in different cameras I am familiar with, the results don't match my or the industry's findings. For example the 50D and the 1DX2 are close to the same curve...

I don't know how you can use this site to compare 2 different cameras, other than to figure out where you have horizontal lines for ISO-less ranges.

I like this chart for read noise comparisons though.
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm


I'm certainly no expert on these charts and sensor specs. To me, the 1Dx2 and 5D4 are able to take more adjustments than any other Canon camera I've used, even if the 1Dx shows to be slightly better in read noise at high ISO. I'm not sure you can put the total sensor performance into one chart though many obviously do that. It was interesting to me that it seemed in my example above that there was little penalty for my exposure mistake. I think for Canon sensors anyway that's an improvement over my previous cameras. I would always aim for a proper exposure in camera though, but in a pinch it's good to know a file might be salvaged when needed.



Mar 03, 2017 at 01:43 PM





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