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Canon glass on Sony sensors?
  
 
yelloguy2
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


I was out shooting with a friend this weekend. I have a Canon 6D and have been loving the landscape shots I get. But I have to work hard. I mostly do bracketing to get details in the sky/clouds and good details in the foreground. I usually pick 1 or 2 [bracketed set of] shots from the shoot and do an HDR Merge in LR to get the foreground and background details and go from there.
My friend has a Nikon D750 and his images looked gorgeous without any bracketing. He was getting enough shadow details in his shots and the camera preserved his highlights details as well. I am quite impressed by the Sony sensor in that camera.
This post may come across as trolling. I apologize in advance. My intent is to seek opinions for getting a sensor with good dynamic range. Should I look into getting a Nikon body with adapter for all the Canon glass? Sony? Is Fuji an option? Anyone has experience with this sort of a set up? My primary shooting is landscapes - I have had a lot of fun shooting lighthouses this year.



Oct 11, 2016 at 03:34 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


Canon has made great strides in dynamic range with its newest generation of sensors. The Canon 5D Mark IV has the highest rated sensor available from Canon currently. It is competitive with the Sony A7R II, if not its precise equal.

It is possible to use Canon lenses on Sony mirrorless cameras with adapters. Many do this with great results; however, those adapters that provide autofocus are expensive.

If you mostly shoot landscapes and slow moving things, the Sony could be a good fit. The A7R II is not really suitable for action photography, and probably the most charitable thing I could say about the ergonomics is they are an acquired taste. (Many people seem to love their Sonys, FWIW.)

If you own Canon lenses already and you are otherwise happy with Canon, then the 5D Mark IV would be a logical upgrade if you need more DR for landscape photography. Both choices will be step up from your 6D in terms of image quality for the work you describe.

In terms of DR, the Nikon D810 is the current gold standard; however you would be abandoning your Canon lenses and moving to a new system wholesale. Because of the flange to sensor distances, Canon lenses cannot be adapted to Nikon bodies.



Oct 11, 2016 at 03:48 PM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


I don't really understand why you have a problem. I take landscapes with a 6D and I don't have this issue. Are you processing RAW images - is your friend doing more fancy processing in post? This seems a more likely explanation than general DR differences between the sensors.


Oct 11, 2016 at 04:20 PM
milkod2001
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


A few options to consider:

1) 5DS/5Dmk4 might be good upgrade for you, especially for landscapes.

2) NIkon D750/D810 and 20mm/1.8, 24mm 1.8, 16-35 or 18-35 will give you all you need.

3) Sony A7r2 with Loxia 21mm/2.8. will give you the best possible IQ, DR etc. but at bigger $$$ price.



Oct 11, 2016 at 04:28 PM
yelloguy2
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


Robin, not a problem but I don't get the details in shadows and highlights at the right exposure. I have to underexpose and overexpose by 1 full stop to get those two things right. But I was seeing the right exposure expose correctly for both the shadows and the highlights on the Sony sensor in a scene with the same dynamic range.
That made me think maybe it is time to look for alternatives. Otherwise I am happy with the 6D and have a good, albeit lengthy, workflow.
I am kind of partial to Fuji so I might explore a Fuji mirrorless body with a Canon adapter and then start buying Fuji lenses...



Oct 11, 2016 at 05:02 PM
notherenow
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


Canon lenses on Nikon cameras (with or without Sony sensors), no.

Canon lenses on Sony cameras, yes.

How well they match will depend on the camera/lens/adapter combination.

Smart adapters for EF to E mount range from expensive to cheap.

I have four different EF to E adapters that I use with several Canon lenses on an A7s and previously on an A7.

The first generation cameras are slow to auto focus with most if not all adapters and some combinations may not work for AF at all.

I have a Metabones iv. This is one of the more expensive adapters and I use mine only with my Canon 17 f4 L TS-E (and did with the 24 3.5 L ii TS-E before I sold that lens). As far as I am concerned, the TS-E's work better on the Sony's than on Canon DSLRs. Some people have issues with sensor reflections but has not been an issue for me. They are certainly EASIER to use on FF E mount cameras as everything works as it should and you get all the extras like focus peaking and you can use the EVF with the lens shifted (I use the 17 walk around at night hand held sometimes and at rock/blues gigs often).

My second adapter that I use with my AF lenses on my A7s was less than $100 Australian (less than $75 US) and works slowly but ok for my needs for AF with
Canon 40 2.8 STM, Canon 18-55 IS ii APSC kit lens (covers FF from 24mm and up pretty well) and even a ancient 28-90 film camera EOS kit lens that I got a few days ago for a few dollars with a camera and bag). It also worked well with a Canon 135 f2 L (now sold).

My third adapter, a cheap (a bit over $100 Australian) stopped working for AF but when it did it started working like the Metabones does for MF with automatic magnification. I now use this with a Sigma 150 2.8 in EF mount as that lens plays up with all the Sony adapters so it works fine for MF. It does work with the cheap Fotga often enough but I don't need AF with the lens anyway. (it works fine for AFS adapted to my M4/3 camera with fast AF as do the others).

My fourth adapter is a mid priced Commlite but it is an older one and while it worked ok with my A7, it doesn't mount to my A7s.

The first three all default to FF but the commlite defaults to APSC (needs the camera set to off for APSC instead of auto or FF).

I believe all my adapters (that work) would be fine for faster AF with the second generation cameras though some better than others but most might be AFS only still on some cameras.

AF is AFS only on my A7s and previous A7.

While AF is slow, it still works in really low light with the A7s.

There is supposed to be a cheaper adapter that allows AFC on the second generation cameras but also is faster (still AFS only) on the first generation. I will be getting one shortly (funds permitting).

While my lenses are AFS only (or MF) on my A7s, things like face detect and even eye AF and smile detect still work (smile detect fires without pressing the shutter button when a smile is detected). Face detect is fine but the others need be used with stationary people.

For landscapes, I think any E mount FF camera would be fine though the second gen cameras also have IBIS so even lenses like the TS-E's are stabilized.

I have used a few other EF lenses and all combinations work fine for MF (other than THAT Sigma and 3 of my adapters or the Commlite and A7s), some didn't work at all for AF (some would AF on one adapter but not another while a different lens would be the other way around).

TL-DR, Canon lenses are great for MF, even with the cheap smart adapters, each generation of camera gets better with them for AF and cameras like the A7Rii actually work better for AF with some Canon lenses from the user posts I read around the place.



Oct 11, 2016 at 05:42 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


yelloguy2 wrote:
I am kind of partial to Fuji so I might explore a Fuji mirrorless body with a Canon adapter and then start buying Fuji lenses...


This is pretty much a no-go. While adapters certainly exist to mate Canon EF-mount lenses to Fuji X-mount, you will not get *any* automatic functionality on the lenses, most particularly aperture control, like you will with even the cheapest EF-to-E adapters.

Further, Fuji's crop cameras good as they are will still lag behind your 6D to a degree, and lag significantly behind a 5D IV (and likely future 6D II).



Oct 11, 2016 at 06:13 PM
dtolios
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


Yes, the DR increase is evident with both Nikon & Sony FF cameras of the last 3+ years over a Canon, but I doubt you get what properly bracketing a 6D gets you in a single shot...if you are demanding on your exposure, you should bracket regardless. A single exposure is always a relative compromise.

Also, I don't think HDR merging in LR is enough.
Selective blending the 2 or more exposures yourself in PS & luminosity based masking is more time consuming but leads to more balanced results.

Sony bodies can use Canon glass, some with AF. I would think the best value for landscape work using your current EF lenses is a used A7R imho.
I would just treat it as a MF camera with EF glass. I don't think the A7R II offers enough over the A7R to warrant the 2.5x price used.

Issue is, A7R bodies are hard to come by lately, at least in the FM used market...




Oct 11, 2016 at 06:17 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


dtolios wrote:
I don't think the A7R II offers enough over the A7R to warrant the 2.5x price used.

Issue is, A7R bodies are hard to come by lately, at least in the FM used market...



The shotgun shutter and associated shutter speed limitations are certainly a reason to look twice, as is the lack of lossless RAW support. Maybe when Sony replaces the A7R II we can get a cheap full-frame mirrorless back that's actually relatively universal...


(or, you know, if Canon ever produces one )



Oct 11, 2016 at 06:24 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


yelloguy2 wrote:
I was out shooting with a friend this weekend. I have a Canon 6D and have been loving the landscape shots I get. But I have to work hard. I mostly do bracketing to get details in the sky/clouds and good details in the foreground. I usually pick 1 or 2 [bracketed set of] shots from the shoot and do an HDR Merge in LR to get the foreground and background details and go from there.
My friend has a Nikon D750 and his images looked gorgeous without any bracketing. He was getting enough shadow details in his shots and the
...Show more

I have tried it all now. NDgrad leaves gradient in leaves/trees where the gradient starts. Sony sensor means lots of adapters, batteries, lens, and unfamiliar menus.

Particularly with the advent of the 5dsr and 5d4, keep it simple and cheap and buy 5dsr (if you want to print big - me) or 5d4 (if you want to sometimes avoid bracketing.

I am a big fan of 5dsr for landscape. I am in my happy spot with bracketing and processing and printing big.




Oct 11, 2016 at 06:43 PM
 

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Robin Smith
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


Not all photos need both shadow and highlight details unless your purpose is pixel peeping. Black is a perfectly respectable shade and is often required to make a photo look good with enough contrast to avoid a ghastly HDR look. It is one thing to be pixel peeping and another thing to be making a good final overall image. They are not necessarily the same thing.


Oct 11, 2016 at 07:07 PM
yelloguy2
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


I completely agree. However, this is my style. When I get home after a shoot, I see a lot of images that came from a good scene but did not capture the essence of the scene. Also I am very limited in my skills of composition. I would get things lined up right but they don't necessarily translate into a good image at home. Here is another reason - I am a big fan of 500px.com and I keep trying to do stuff like that. I realize that it is not to everyone's taste, but the punchy color and bare bones compositions appeal to my eye.

I have also tried luminosity blending but the simplicity and ease of use of an HDR merge wins out over loss in quality (cost benefit).

Personally I like the camera colors (or DPP) over Lightroom/Adobe colors but again the minor differences are overshadowed by the simplicity of LR.

Thanks to all the others who commented so far. I am glad I asked this question here. Very useful stuff...



Oct 11, 2016 at 07:18 PM
garyvot
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


Robin Smith wrote:
Black is a perfectly respectable shade and is often required to make a photo look good...


Haha. Word.

I remember when use of graduated ND filters, fill flash and other techniques for coping with excessive DR was mostly about overcoming the limitations of photographic recording media so that the final image conformed to how we actually perceived the scene with our eyes.

Today, some digital HDR practitioners seem bent on rendering scenes in a completely unnatural way. (Not saying this is you, OP.) Because the technology has become so capable, we've lost sight of the original purpose somewhat (or at least some have).

More dynamic range is never a bad thing to have, but it's also okay to let shadows be black sometimes if that is how a scene would be perceived naturally.

/End soapbox.




Oct 11, 2016 at 08:03 PM
BluesWest
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


Also I am very limited in my skills of composition.

In that case, you should consider spending some time and money on improving your basic photography skills, rather than worrying about whether you should buy another camera.

John



Oct 12, 2016 at 03:18 AM
Daan B
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


I am kind of in the same boat as OP, but for interior shooting. Atm relying on hdr in lr to get the most dr out of the 5d3 sensor. I tested the 80d, 5ds and 5d4 and nikon d810, sony a7r (2) and fuji xt2. Even though the new canon sensors have caught up, they aren't on level with the competition. Mainly because they still have rather high read/color noise. The nikon d810 is king for dr at base iso. The xt2 impresses me as well for dr, but x-trans still suffers from watercolor effects. The a7r is a bargain atm. All fwiw


Oct 12, 2016 at 05:53 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


^ For sure. I'd seriously consider adding a clean, used A7R to your kit.

And on the topic of EF lenses on Sony - it's a win if you are shooting mostly static subjects. You get Canon's great, cheap, widely-available glass and the excellent files off Sony's Exmor.



Oct 12, 2016 at 07:02 AM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


For interiors as you describe I can see you may indeed have a point, although I would have thought that bracketing and HDR would still be best. But I can see your point here.

I'm not saying increased DR is not "better", but I really think the OP needs to work on his exposure or post processing skills rather than waste time with a new system.



Oct 12, 2016 at 04:54 PM
yelloguy2
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


I appreciate all the thoughts here.

Just for kicks, here is a file I processed using a three image HDR merge in LR. And then I did the same image with a two image luminosity blend in PS. Finally I adjusted the correct exposure single image with -100 highlights and +100 shadows.



















I think I got very similar results. This one scene probably does not have as much dynamic range as some of the others I have shot. But in my mind, the correct exposure in this case was not showing what I wanted so I was bracketing. I may have been doing this all wrong.



Oct 13, 2016 at 01:33 AM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


This is a very good site to inspect DR of cameras vs ISO. As other posters have pointed out the newer Canon's have improved their DR markedly over the 6D. At base ISO the Nikon still reigns with the Sony, but you can see that even at ISO 200 they are quite close, and by 640 the 6D is also there.
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

If you can afford to add a used A7RII and just use it for landscapes while keeping the 6D when AF and higher ISO is needed I think you'll be in the best of both worlds. The A7 series is far from a perfect camera but does have many great properties for slower landscape photography.

Mike



Oct 13, 2016 at 11:01 AM
KKFung
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon glass on Sony sensors?


yelloguy2 wrote:
I appreciate all the thoughts here.

Just for kicks, here is a file I processed using a three image HDR merge in LR. And then I did the same image with a two image luminosity blend in PS. Finally I adjusted the correct exposure single image with -100 highlights and +100 shadows.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8856395/temp/20161009-IMG_0374-1.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8856395/temp/20161009-IMG_0374-2.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8856395/temp/20161009-IMG_0374-3.jpg

I think I got very similar results. This one scene probably does not have as much dynamic range as some of the others I have shot. But in my mind, the correct exposure in this case was not showing what I wanted so I was bracketing. I may have been
...Show more

I like the middle one as it looks natural to me



Oct 13, 2016 at 12:21 PM
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