p.62 #1 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
I read somewhere on a forum that the sensor and it's electronics are 80% of the cost of the GFX. I don't think there is much room to drop the price of the camera.
80% of the cost to manufacture the camera maybe, but not 80% of the retail price. Thus there will be plenty of scope for the price to drop once the R&D costs are recouped.
I think Brandon Dube said the wholesale price of the Sony 44x33 CMOS sensor was less than $1000.
p.62 #2 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Matt Grum wrote:
80% of the cost to manufacture the camera maybe, but not 80% of the retail price. Thus there will be plenty of scope for the price to drop once the R&D costs are recouped.
I think Brandon Dube said the wholesale price of the Sony 44x33 CMOS sensor was less than $1000.
So that makes it less than $1500 to manufacture the GFX...maybe but I doubt it. Labour alone would erode big time into the costs.
p.62 #3 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
So that makes it less than $1500 to manufacture the GFX
I was just reporting what they pay Sony for the sensor, I don't have any specific info on how much the other components cost.
However I do know that a large proportion of the price of any electronic product goes towards the fixed costs such as R&D, design, tooling, marketing and generally running the company.
And the lower the sales volume the higher the percentage of the cost goes on these things rather than the cost to manufacture the unit.
p.62 #4 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Matt Grum wrote:
I was just reporting what they pay Sony for the sensor, I don't have any specific info on how much the other components cost.
However I do know that a large proportion of the price of any electronic product goes towards the fixed costs such as R&D, design, tooling, marketing and generally running the company.
And the lower the sales volume the higher the percentage of the cost goes on these things rather than the cost to manufacture the unit.
Right and with the continuous drop of camera revenue by all manufactures over the years and the fixed costs staying the same...the price of cameras must go up, not down. This is why we are seeing price increases from all manufactures for their latest offerings.
Jan 29, 2017 at 01:21 PM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #5 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
It might make sense that 80% of the materials cost of the GFX is the sensor, but it is nowhere near 80% of the retail cost. So, $1,250 in materials, a bunch of money in wages to assemble and maintain quality control, a bunch of money in R & D, a bunch if money in marketing, some profit. I think that does leave room to drop the price in a couple years if it sells well. When they have recouped most of the R & D costs and perhaps the sensor is a couple hundred dollars less I can see a sub $5,000 camera. It would be a move to increase market share and reduce profits, but that can be a smart move especially for a company like Fuji that isn't exactly dependent on the camera division for the profitability of the company.
p.62 #6 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Steve Spencer wrote:
It might make sense that 80% of the materials cost of the GFX is the sensor, but it is nowhere near 80% of the retail cost. So, $1,250 in materials, a bunch of money in wages to assemble and maintain quality control, a bunch of money in R & D, a bunch if money in marketing, some profit. I think that does leave room to drop the price in a couple years if it sells well. When they have recouped most of the R & D costs and perhaps the sensor is a couple hundred dollars less I can see a sub $5,000 camera. It would be a move to increase market share and reduce profits, but that can be a smart move especially for a company like Fuji that isn't exactly dependent on the camera division for the profitability of the company....Show more →
Don't forget that the non material costs continue every day. R&D continues...maybe not on the GFX itself, but on the next generation camera, lenses etc... Marketing costs continue, people still continue to get paid. Also...unless we see a big change in the market, we will continue to see sales slide for the camera manufactures which will increase unit costs of existing cameras.
The only time I see them reducing the costs are:
1. It is not selling at the current price to the level they need.
2. A new camera is on its way and they want to clear out the inventory channels.
3. Standard Fuji sales that seem to happen every other month.
p.62 #7 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Yes. Fuji lens go on sale about 3 - 4 times a year. However, the XT-II has yet to go on sale, although they are still hard to find, so that may have a bearing. But I don't recall if the Xpro II to has been reduced?
So although we may not see the GFX on sale, say in the next 12-18 months. We may see the lenses offered at a discount.
p.62 #8 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Fuji is making a killing APS-C, so they can afford some tight margins on the GFX if they need to have them. It's got considerable marketing value for the brand.
p.62 #9 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
uhoh7 wrote:
Fuji is making a killing APS-C, so they can afford some tight margins on the GFX if they need to have them. It's got considerable marketing value for the brand.
Really...a killing? From a revenue perspective it ranks behind Canon, Nikon, Sony and Olympus and even Richo...so I wouldn't categorize Fuji as making a killing.
p.62 #10 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
Really...a killing? From a revenue perspective it ranks behind Canon, Nikon, Sony and Olympus and even Richo...so I wouldn't categorize Fuji as making a killing.
Fuji are financially sound with the diversification of their businesses now. This has been discussed in detail in other threads including the financial reports. Fuji had been almost decimated and caught off guard with the film industry decline, so I am sure Fuji will continue in strength.
The sales targets do not have to be huge,and I am sure Fuji don't wish to compete in the over crowded FF arena for now. The GFX is a niche market, but it may prove to larger than most of us anticipate
p.62 #11 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
uhoh7 wrote:
Fuji is making a killing APS-C, so they can afford some tight margins on the GFX if they need to have them. It's got considerable marketing value for the brand.
Fuji is making a killing on medical stuff. They can afford all sorts of cameras!
p.62 #12 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I think we're way overblowing the idea that this is a massively niche camera that if Fuji expects to sell any they're going to have to show hard proof of a significant advantage to the slightly larger sensor.
I mean, maybe if we were talking about cost and size/weight penalties of a Phase One XF100. But at no more expensive than a D5 (or Leica) and smaller than a D810?
Nah. I mean, certainly it's a niche camera. But I think if Nikon can sell D5's to the 99% of people who don't need 14fps Fuji can sell GFX's to people who would really be fine with an A7r II or D810.
Jan 30, 2017 at 01:13 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #13 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I thought I would update people on the Cambo Actus with the Fuji GFX. I had an email exchange with Cambo about possibly getting the Cambo Actus Mini and this is what they said:
"Cambo will introduce an Actus version suitable for both the new Fuji and the Sony. It will be available soon. It is a bit more than just a bigger bayonet, but I can’t reveal the details of that now."
So it isn't exactly clear what they are going to do, but it doesn't look like just a camera attachment for the Actus mini. It looks like a new version of the Cambo Actus, so those who are thinking about getting the Cambo Actus for future use with the Fuji GFX, might want to wait just a bit.
p.62 #14 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I thought I would update people on the Cambo Actus with the Fuji GFX. I had an email exchange with Cambo about possibly getting the Cambo Actus Mini and this is what they said:
"Cambo will introduce an Actus version suitable for both the new Fuji and the Sony. It will be available soon. It is a bit more than just a bigger bayonet, but I can’t reveal the details of that now."
So it isn't exactly clear what they are going to do, but it doesn't look like just a camera attachment for the Actus mini. It looks like a new version of the Cambo Actus, so those who are thinking about getting the Cambo Actus for future use with the Fuji GFX, might want to wait just a bit....Show more →
Hi Steve,
I expected that Cambo was going to have to make some modification to the Actus. At this point the only thing that I expect to be transferable without modification to the Actus itself will be the lenses and lens boards.
p.62 #15 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Might be a conversion kit, like the Actus DB kit. New rear standard and a spacer to raise the front lens mount. Less expensive than an entire new camera for those who have already invested.
p.62 #16 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I thought I would update people on the Cambo Actus with the Fuji GFX. I had an email exchange with Cambo about possibly getting the Cambo Actus Mini and this is what they said:
"Cambo will introduce an Actus version suitable for both the new Fuji and the Sony. It will be available soon. It is a bit more than just a bigger bayonet, but I can’t reveal the details of that now."
So it isn't exactly clear what they are going to do, but it doesn't look like just a camera attachment for the Actus mini. It looks like a new version of the Cambo Actus, so those who are thinking about getting the Cambo Actus for future use with the Fuji GFX, might want to wait just a bit....Show more →
I don't think we'd want it to be just a standard attachment anyway. I don't think we'd be able to realize the full fall movement if it were.
But the "new... Sony"? Did I miss an announcement?
Jan 30, 2017 at 10:09 PM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #17 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
freaklikeme wrote:
I don't think we'd want it to be just a standard attachment anyway. I don't think we'd be able to realize the full fall movement if it were.
But the "new... Sony"? Did I miss an announcement?
No new Sony, he was just referring to the A7rII.
Jan 31, 2017 at 12:36 AM
Steve Spencer Online • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #18 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I might add, however, that because of the new grip the MK II Sony's have more restrictions on which lenses can be used with the Cambo Actus mini. They have a special bellows for the first generation cameras that let's them use almost any lens that can be used with a digital back, but the MK II can't use this bellows. I suspect that the new version of the Cambo Actus will allow more wide angle lenses to be use with both the MK II Sony's and the Fuji.
p.62 #20 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Steve Spencer wrote:
I might add, however, that because of the new grip the MK II Sony's have more restrictions on which lenses can be used with the Cambo Actus mini. They have a special bellows for the first generation cameras that let's them use almost any lens that can be used with a digital back, but the MK II can't use this bellows. I suspect that the new version of the Cambo Actus will allow more wide angle lenses to be use with both the MK II Sony's and the Fuji.
Yeah, I have the ACB-310 I use with my a7m when I feel the need to use the APO-Sironar Digital 45. It also works well with Schneider's APO-Digitar 43 (which, incidentally, is a 45). It will work with my APO-Sironar-Digital 35 HR, but the AoI makes it unusable with the camera when shifting/panoing even with the modified sensor. That was a little heartbreaking.
Wides are going to be a problem for any camera with a bayonet mount so far as view camera lenses are concerned. The GFX's 27+mm flange precludes the possibility of using the Actus and Fuji with any view camera lens below 50mm. My guess is that will actually end up being 60mm to get unrestricted movement. Cambo might be able to make a very thin mount design for the camera, but everything Rodenstock and Schneider make 50mm and below requires a minimum of 31mm between the end of the lens and the imaging plane. They can't get around that, no matter what they come up with. Fortunately, 60mm and above, there's a lot of great glass available from both those companies and a few others, including some great legacy Fuji glass.
I bet the killer wide for the GFX and Actus will end up being the Hassy Distagon CF/CFe 40/4. I had the CF (I've heard the CFe is even better) and it justifiably draws comparisons to the Distagon 21 in draw. With the GFX, you can pano out the full 6x6 frame in four overlapped shots, unlike the six this took me with the a7...
