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Archive 2015 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...

  
 
rscheffler
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p.20 #1 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


rscheffler wrote:
I haven't looked through it yet, but DPR updated their SL gallery with some M lens samples...

http://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/8280161083/leica-sl-real-world-samples-gallery


Not necessarily the best samples for determining if there are any performance related problems with M lenses on the SL. It's just with the 35 Lux FLE and a few with the 50 Lux ASPH. Of the M lens samples, only downloaded some of the 35 FLE DNGs to play with...

Files feel a lot like the M240. Maybe a bit more malleable and probably not the black clipping and green shadows problem of the M240. It does concern me a bit to see banding in a couple images (#4 and 5 below), but both of those were at ISO 160, so not sure if that's the problem. Other images from the same camera at different ISOs seem OK, like at 400. I see some telltale signs of IR contamination in black and gray synthetic fabrics.

As usual, whatever DPR does in terms of LR settings, it generally sucks the life out of the images. They seem to like pushing shadows a lot...

Here's how I processed some of their images:

http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0001.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0002.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0003.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0004.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0005.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0006.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0007.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0008.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0009.jpg
http://ronscheffler.com/samples/fm/sl/dpr_samples/20151024_0010.jpg

SL & 35 FLE courtesy DPReview



Oct 27, 2015 at 04:42 PM
freaklikeme
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p.20 #2 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


edwardkaraa wrote:
The problem with ibis is that not only one element is moving, the whole sensor is

I'm not saying it's useless. There are situations when 1/15 shutter speed is much better with ibis than without, even though with ISO 500,000 I'm not sure how often would one encounter such situations.


I'll take a little motion blur on my subject, if it's moving, over massive amounts of noise any day.



Oct 27, 2015 at 05:07 PM
uhoh7
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p.20 #3 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Ron, the contrast between your results and DPR's is pretty stunning.

They make the camera look so dull. I wonder if they realize it?



Oct 27, 2015 at 09:58 PM
sebboh
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p.20 #4 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


uhoh7 wrote:
Ron, the contrast between your results and DPR's is pretty stunning.

They make the camera look so dull. I wonder if they realize it?


they make every camera look bad. there is next to nothing to be learned from their samples.

i'd love to learn more about ron's processing techniques though. i always feel that he gets color just right, which is something i have a very hard time doing with leica image files.

ron – is leica's aperture guessing accurate enough that you believe the exif values are close to actual aperture?



Oct 27, 2015 at 10:07 PM
rscheffler
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p.20 #5 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Thanks Derek and Charlie! I'm just going by how I feel I want the images to look. With the M240 and also the SL, I struggle a bit with the yellows and oranges, so tend to pull back saturation for both by varying amounts. With some of these I went a bit heavier with the clarity and saturation than I usually do lately with the M240... perhaps an overcompensation for how DPR processed them?

The M9 and M240 both seem pretty decent at aperture guessing in 'normal' lighting situations, usually within a half stop. Not sure how close the SL is and assume it's generally OK, yet imperfect, like the M cameras.



Oct 27, 2015 at 11:53 PM
Sneakyracer
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p.20 #6 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


uhoh7 wrote:
Ron, the contrast between your results and DPR's is pretty stunning.

They make the camera look so dull. I wonder if they realize it?


Agree!

Processing is always a matter of taste but right now they (DPR) are into the flat, high DR look.

Ron's samples look a heck of a lot better and more akin to what one associates with Leica.

I think the sensor in the Leica SL is superb from playing with a few images. The best 35mm sensor ever in a Leica for sure. Seems to work great with the legacy glass.



Oct 28, 2015 at 11:21 AM
JonPB
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p.20 #7 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


DPReview expressly makes their images as out-of-camera as reasonable for each image. If they started processing the images to show off what a camera was capable of, the sample images would be more about each editor's processing style than about the cameras themselves. While I'd be a huge supporter of them moving in that direction -- hiring reviewers who know what they're doing, have them spend a month or two shooting and processing the camera, with ongoing commentary about what its like to use that kit -- that'd require them moving away from their Amazon-esque focus on efficiency rather than quality.

So, while Ron's interpretation of each image is far superior, DPReview's images are exactly what they set out to provide and I think it only fair to point that out.

Anyhow. I'm still waiting to see something about this camera that allows me to think, "oh, damn, that's a showstopper." Instead, I seem to keep thinking, "oh, so that's why it is priced like it is."

Cheers,
Jon

Edit: In retrospect, it has become apparent that DPReview's sense of "minimal" edits goes well beyond what I'd consider to be "as SOOC as reasonable." I gave them too much credit and recant any impression I might have given that their jpg images are in any way representative of camera quality.

Edited on Oct 31, 2015 at 10:06 AM · View previous versions



Oct 28, 2015 at 11:45 AM
davewolfs
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p.20 #8 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Regarding price - for those who live in the US. It's around 18% less to order from overseas. Found an R lens that I would like. Uh oh


Oct 28, 2015 at 11:57 AM
adamdewilde
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p.20 #9 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


davewolfs wrote:
Regarding price - for those who live in the US. It's around 18% less to order from overseas. Found an R lens that I would like. Uh oh


A little to late Dave!



Oct 28, 2015 at 02:51 PM
zhangyue
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p.20 #10 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...




davewolfs wrote:
Regarding price - for those who live in the US. It's around 18% less to order from overseas. Found an R lens that I would like. Uh oh

How and where?



Oct 28, 2015 at 03:03 PM
relms
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p.20 #11 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


As has been the case for me lately, I am far behind in reviewing and commenting on recent posts here. I hope to have time for that this weekend. I spent last weekend far away from Florida in Burlington, VT with the Q and Sony A7rII, which goes up for sale this week. The Sony is a great camera, but the Q puts a smile on my face.

Here are a few shots taken in and around Burlington with the Q.
























Shot in Macro Mode




Oct 28, 2015 at 06:34 PM
davewolfs
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p.20 #12 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Seems like they also sell the Q for $3600 in europe.


Oct 28, 2015 at 06:56 PM
rscheffler
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p.20 #13 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...




davewolfs wrote:
Regarding price - for those who live in the US. It's around 18% less to order from overseas. Found an R lens that I would like. Uh oh


zhangyue wrote:
How and where?


Just go to the good old standby Leicashop. Free international shipping on orders over 500 Euro. Recently bought a Voigtlander from them and everything went smoothly and saved about $350 compared to US pricing.

FWIW, the price disparity isn't just Leica. Zeiss and Voigtlander too, depending on the market, but particularly if buying from Japan (though not for Leica gear - try Hong Kong instead).

The Leica price disparity between US and EU is most noticeable with newly announced products, whereas Leica US has their rolling 12% 'exchange rate' rebate on most other things, bringing down the difference somewhat, though not quite to par...

JonPB wrote:
DPReview expressly makes their images as out-of-camera as reasonable for each image. If they started processing the images to show off what a camera was capable of, the sample images would be more about each editor's processing style than about the cameras themselves. While I'd be a huge supporter of them moving in that direction -- hiring reviewers who know what they're doing, have them spend a month or two shooting and processing the camera, with ongoing commentary about what its like to use that kit -- that'd require them moving away from their Amazon-esque focus on efficiency rather than
...Show more

I don't really disagree, and was going to write something to same effect.

I guess reading through the DPR comments and seeing so many remarks about blah 'image quality' frustrated me a bit since obviously SOOC, or near SOOC raws will almost always be on the flat side and have a lot of room for interpretation. You'd think this would be understood. Anyway, there were a couple images in their gallery of the Javits Center that were 100 points shadow pushes, which almost always results in flat looking images. A number of others were simple exposure pushes of around a half stop, though the school bus image, which I like the most from their set, was 1.25 stops and +30 shadows.



Oct 28, 2015 at 09:59 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.20 #14 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Ron - I completely agree with Derek. I have always been impressed by your ability to get the colors and contrast level just right (at least to my eye). You also have super consistant output amongst camera bodies. I am still practicing and one day will get it right... Maybe we need an LR Scheffler preset?

Derek - the aperature guesstimation can actually vary a fair bit. I have found anywhere from 1/2 to a full stop variation.



Oct 28, 2015 at 10:44 PM
sebboh
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p.20 #15 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Gary Clennan wrote:
Ron - I completely agree with Derek. I have always been impressed by your ability to get the colors and contrast level just right (at least to my eye). You also have super consistant output amongst camera bodies. I am still practicing and one day will get it right... Maybe we need an LR Scheffler preset?


i actually have Ron Scheffler preset in lightroom modeled off a few shots where he showed what he did. it only works on leica files in a certain kind of light though. makes my sony greens look crazy, haven't been able to get the color adjustment right for the scheffler look with sony files. i also have a ronny olson flower preset made from when my random fiddling came out with something that approaches his look.



Oct 28, 2015 at 11:10 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.20 #16 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Steve Spencer wrote:
My guess is that the weight [of the 90-280 mm lens will] be around 2 kilos/4 pounds, and that the price will be about $5,500.


Just found the size and weight specs in a LUF posting. Here is a comparison with the Nikon 70-200 mm lens:

---------------------------------------------------.....------------------------------
Apo-Vario-Elmar-SL 1:2.8–4.0/90–280mm.....Nikon 70-200/f.28 VR
----------------------------------------------------...... -----------------------------
Diameter: 88 mm......................................87 mm
Length: 238 mm (9.4 in)...........................215 mm (8.5 in)
Weight: 1780 g (62.8 oz.).........................1470g (51.8 oz.)


Coming back to my possible Africa trip, which could be around October of next year. For me, the choice would be between the following sets of equipment:

(1) Using what I have now
-----------------------------------
M9-P and M-Monochrom
Leica lenses from 21 through 135 (including the Macro-Elmar-M 90mm f/4)
Telyt 400/f6.8 with Visoflex III
Telyt 200/f4.0 with Visoflex

(2) Using Nikon lens for > 90 mm
-----------------------------------------------
M9-P and M-Monochrom
Leica lenses from 21 through 135
Nikon 70-200/f.28 VR + TC1.4x (tele converter) [I can borrow this from my son]
Borrow Nikon D300 from my son
Owing to the 1.5x crop factor, this would give an effective FOV up to 300 mm (and 420 mm with the 1.4 tele-converter).


(3) Getting the Leica SL + 90-280 mm lens
---------------------------------------------------------
M9-P and M-Monochrom
Leica lenses from 21 through 135
Leica SL + 90-280 mm lens
Telyt 400/f6.8 — I'll have to figure out how to use it on the Leica SL

Considerations
--------------------
Solutions (1) and (2) have the advantage of not having to buy anything.

Solution (1) means traveling with the least volume and weight of equipment.The Telyt 200/f4.0 fills the crucial gap between the excellent Tele-Elmar 135/4 and the Telyt 400/6.8. In my experience photographing African wildlife — years ago I lived in Ugnada and camped in a tent all over East Afrcia — the 90, 135, 200 and 400 focal lengths pretty much cover what you need in terms of telephoto. The obvious disadvantage is the lack of a zoom,which means frequent lens changes when photographing from a safari vehicle. In terms of quickness of focus, the Telyt 400/6.8, with experience, is quick, although not like blitz-rapid Nikon autofocus, but the Telyt 200/4 is difficult to focus quickly, my impression is that this lens is probably not sharp enough for what I want, although I have little experience with it. Also, the Telyt-Visoflex combination is a bit of a Rube Goldberg-type setup, unless you're into the whole "retro-trip" aspect, which I am not. Neverthelss, all this can work.


Solution (2) solves the problem of the Telyt 200/f4 of Solution (1)

Solution (3) of course means shelling out a lot of money for the SL and the 90-280 (and gives the opportunity of using this), which could be mitigated by the sale of the SL and the 90-280 after the trip.

Any thoughts? Anyone have any experience with the Telyt 200/f4?

—Mitch/Chiang Mai


P.S.
This is so far OT that I'm placing it in a postscript: I'm not even considering taking the AF-S NIKKOR 200-400mm f/4G ED VR because it weighs 3360 g (118.5 oz.) — almost almost 7-½ pounds! Just too heavy for me, even for shooting from a Land Rover. I bought it, in a fit of enthusiasm, after my 2009 Botswana trip, when I thought that I would go to Africa again in 2010. The trip never materialized, and I've only shot some 20 test shots in a zoo with this excellent lens.

Whenever, I had an opportunity to sell the 200-400mm, I either didn't act fast enough or had the lens on another continent. When I had an offer from a French wildlife photographer, I had the lens in the States. Then, when I contacted this photographer two years later, he told me that he could no longer afford it because the economy and his income had deteriorated so much. I tried to sell it on eBay in the States, but being an "eBay idiot", I screwed up an eBay auction. When I get back to the States in March 2016, I'll have to make a serious effort to sell this lens.



Oct 28, 2015 at 11:31 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.20 #17 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


rscheffler wrote:
...With the M240 and also the SL, I struggle a bit with the yellows and oranges, so tend to pull back saturation for both by varying amounts...


Ron, thanks for showing your processing of the dpreview DNG files from the SL. As you suggest, the shots by dpreview, in their usual manner, are not great for reaching any judgment. In any case, I am concerned about the SL yellow-orange rendition being somewhat like that of the M240, which, as you may recall, is what has always bothered me about the M240. I look forward to seeing more on the color renditions and to testing this camera, as well.



Oct 28, 2015 at 11:53 PM
sflxn
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p.20 #18 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


DPR has studio comparisons for the SL now.

It's been a long time since Canikon had Fuji, Olympus, and Sony for dinner at the DSLR trough. Looks like Leica and Pentax has volunteered to be dinner. With all the DSLR lenses that Olympus and Sony had, they still got bitch slapped around. Good luck to Leica and Pentax. I think Canon and Nikon are stretching their fingers right now. There's a reason there is a word duopoly and none for tri and quad. There's a reason mirrorless exist. It wasn't just innovation. It was to escape getting bitch slapped so hard.



Oct 29, 2015 at 03:45 AM
Matt Grum
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p.20 #19 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


sflxn wrote:
It's been a long time since Canikon had Fuji, Olympus, and Sony for dinner at the DSLR trough. Looks like Leica and Pentax has volunteered to be dinner.


The Leica SL isn't a DSLR, though, nor is it poised to compete with any offerings from Canon/Nikon and get "bitch slapped around".

Pentax have never had the market share of the two main players, that's true, but again their cameras offer something different, particular in terms of features which Canon/Nikon reserve for only their top tier cameras (such as weather sealing). I look forward to seeing how their first FF camera turns out and how it is received.

sflxn wrote:
I think Canon and Nikon are stretching their fingers right now. There's a reason there is a word duopoly and none for tri and quad. There's a reason mirrorless exist. It wasn't just innovation. It was to escape getting bitch slapped so hard.


I think Canon and Nikon are complacently putting out iterative body updates whilst others innovate and revolutionise. It's working fine for them right now but they risk being very late to the party. Mirrorless exists because we're no longer in the twentieth century and it's not necessary to use a mirror to see through the main lens.




Oct 29, 2015 at 04:40 AM
relms
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p.20 #20 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


relms wrote:
As has been the case for me lately, I am far behind in reviewing and commenting on recent posts here. I hope to have time for that this weekend. I spent last weekend far away from Florida in Burlington, VT with the Q and Sony A7rII, which goes up for sale this week. The Sony is a great camera, but the Q puts a smile on my face.

Here are a few shots taken in and around Burlington with the Q.


Oops! Sorry, wrong thread!



Oct 29, 2015 at 05:30 AM
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