p.3 #1 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
I have a Zeiss 21mm f2.8 and a Voigtlander 90mm f3.5 and both are excellent. I assumed that both were from the Cosina factory, which it seems they are.
p.3 #2 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
mawz wrote:
The R system lenses were made in Japan (Sigma & Minolta) and Germany. Some of the german-built lenses to japanese designs (24/2.8 was Minolta-derived).
p.3 #4 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
molson wrote:
And Portugal as well... or was that just the cameras?
Of course, the cameras are still actually made in Portugal, regardless of the made in Germany label. I'm not sure about lenses made in Portugal. I have never seen one that was made there myself.
p.3 #5 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
mawz wrote:
And the Leica by Panasonic lenses are real Leica's, at least the 25, 42.5 and 45 are (the 14-50 zooms are not, IMHO). Frankly the best Summilux they make today in terms of rendering and performance is IMHO the 25/1.4 (I'm of the opinion that the 50 Summilux AA is a high performance lens with lousy rendering, yes I know this is somewhat heretical).
The 25/1.4 PannyLeica is probably my all time favorite lens although the Contax Zeiss 45mm F2 and 28mm F2.8 are very close.
Everything I've read about the 42.5 makes me want to buy it since it sounds like the rendering is very similar to the 25/1.4 style of saturated sharpness mixed with a roundness to the image. But that Oly 12-40 is extremely tempting as well.
p.3 #6 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
molson wrote:
And Portugal as well... or was that just the cameras?
Just to follow up..I didn't realize that even with Leica's highest end lenses, it appears the manufacturing of all the major lens components occurs in Portugal. Not sure how much final assembly happens there but it would not surprise me at all if it's only the final quality control that takes place in Germany. I don't think it really matters in the end though, as others have said.
Below is a video form Leica Portugal where one can see the manufacturing process.
p.3 #7 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Just to follow up..I didn't realize that even with Leica's highest end lenses, it appears the manufacturing of all the major lens components occurs in Portugal. Not sure how much final assembly happens there but it would not surprise me at all if it's only the final quality control that takes place in Germany. I don't think it really matters in the end though, as others have said.
Below is a video form Leica Portugal where one can see the manufacturing process.
They have been opaque about the degree to which they depend upon the Portuguese facility ever since it was opened in the 1970's. Like my nice Mephisto shoes, modestly stamped, "Made in Prortugal".
p.3 #8 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
bushwacker wrote:
okay here's my question:
FE 55mm f1.8? who designed, manufactured and where this made? Sony or Zeiss?
Design: Zeiss
Glass elements: Schott glass
Manufacturing: CNC machinery: Zeiss, Coating machinery: Zeiss, Coating chemicals: Zeiss, High Vacuum machinery: Zeiss, MTF real time measurement machinery: Zeiss, Optical cements: Zeiss, training quality assurance personnel: Zeiss Barrels: Sony Circuits and electronics: Sony, Aperture: Sony Assembly employees: Sony, Quality assurance standards: Zeiss. Final test: Sony; Sample tests: Zeiss
Production site: Sony Chonburi Thailand
There are more details but this is more or less public information that I am allowed to share. Other information is probably under NDA, anyway I can't disclose anything else.
p.3 #9 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
eosfun wrote:
Design: Zeiss
Glass elements: Schott glass
Manufacturing: CNC machinery: Zeiss, Coating machinery: Zeiss, Coating chemicals: Zeiss, High Vacuum machinery: Zeiss, MTF real time measurement machinery: Zeiss, Optical cements: Zeiss, training quality assurance personnel: Zeiss Barrels: Sony Circuits and electronics: Sony, Aperture: Sony Assembly employees: Sony, Quality assurance standards: Zeiss. Final test: Sony; Sample tests: Zeiss
Production site: Sony Chonburi Thailand
There are more details but this is more or less public information that I am allowed to share. Other information is probably under NDA, anyway I can't disclose anything else.
p.3 #10 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
j.liam wrote:
They have been opaque about the degree to which they depend upon the Portuguese facility ever since it was opened in the 1970's. Like my nice Mephisto shoes, modestly stamped, "Made in Prortugal".
Judging from their high rate of defects and QC related problems, I would rather have them made anywhere in Asia. I'm sure they will get better QC.
Feb 01, 2014 at 11:00 PM
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p.3 #11 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
Chonburi? Isn't that the (relatively) newly refitted factory that used to make car radios but switched to photo gear after the previous plant was badly damaged in the floods? If so, it makes sense that there was Zeiss gear being shipped in during the refit.
p.3 #12 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
It really doesn't matter who manufactures the lenses as long as they are good and maintain their value.
Buy a Leica lens and you get 80-90% of what you invested, if you decide to sell it down the road.
Zeiss? I paid $899 for a Touit less than a year ago. Recently sold it for $470. Purchased a 25mm ZM for $1200 and barely sold it for $800.
I suppose the 'Made in Germany' makes the difference. I know, Leica had a factory in Canada but everything was under the German control.
p.3 #13 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
I have saved as much as a third when buying ZF.2 lenses, but I sold my Leica 50 Lux ASPH for close to what I bought it for, even with a small mark on the lens, simply because the price had risen so drastically.
p.3 #14 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
edwardkaraa wrote:
What about the FE 35/2.8?
I think it's the same Edward, though I am not 100% sure if every FE lens comes from Chonburi. So maybe some lenses are produced at another site. But the main point I wanted to make is this: the Zeiss brand label is a result from a quality assurance process that meets Zeiss standards. A great part of that QA process has it's origins in the use of Zeiss patents, Zeiss build machines for molding, grinding, coating etc. Glass comes for the greatest from suppliers. The (dutch based) Schott is one of their main suppliers for optical glass. Where machninery is placed, how business deals are made, is less important for the product quality than those factors: material quality, machinery and quality assurance process. That is what a co-creator company like Sony buys from Zeiss. This is also true for Cosina who uses Zeiss machinery etc. for the production of lenses they produce under the Zeiss label, and as another example: Nokia who makes smartphone lenses with Zeiss designs, materials, machinery and QA processes. In glasses as in eyeware with the Zeiss label this is a common use too. You may have seen Zeiss equipment at a local eyeware store where glass is measured and made ready to mount in the frame that a person chooses. The eyeware chain is in fact the same kind of production and distribution chain, but is more complex in logistics while the product itself is less complex than a camera lens.
I hope this helps getting an idea what Zeiss as a company actually is.
p.3 #15 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
So today, the math and physics of lens design is pretty much all computer generated, based on marketing and R$D objectives, the resulting product being tested either in house or at a contractors facility. Probably the documentation can be emailed anywhere for review. I would assume Zeiss has a backlog of projects in house.
So the "magic sauce" seems to be the lens coatings, and combination of glasses. How else could Zeiss get so much "bite" in some of the ZF lens designs. It would seem that Sigma or Tamron, etc. could simply copy the coating chemistry and achieve the same result.
I used to see the Nikon brochures back in the day where they championed their glass making technology. I wonder if then they had their own glass foundry. I would think that lenses like the 35/1.4 or their CRC concept came from hand generated math and in house physical testing of the results.
p.3 #16 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
carstenw wrote:
I have saved as much as a third when buying ZF.2 lenses, but I sold my Leica 50 Lux ASPH for close to what I bought it for, even with a small mark on the lens, simply because the price had risen so drastically.
Indeed but I also heard from many people that moving M lenses is getting quite difficult these days. Prices increase regularly, and most lenses are not scarce as they used to be. People used to buy used lenses at new prices because they simply couldn't find any item in stock.
p.3 #17 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
eosfun wrote:
I think it's the same Edward, though I am not 100% sure if every FE lens comes from Chonburi. So maybe some lenses are produced at another site. But the main point I wanted to make is this: the Zeiss brand label is a result from a quality assurance process that meets Zeiss standards. A great part of that QA process has it's origins in the use of Zeiss patents, Zeiss build machines for molding, grinding, coating etc. Glass comes for the greatest from suppliers. The (dutch based) Schott is one of their main suppliers for optical glass. Where machninery is placed, how business deals are made, is less important for the product quality than those factors: material quality, machinery and quality assurance process. That is what a co-creator company like Sony buys from Zeiss. This is also true for Cosina who uses Zeiss machinery etc. for the production of lenses they produce under the Zeiss label, and as another example: Nokia who makes smartphone lenses with Zeiss designs, materials, machinery and QA processes. In glasses as in eyeware with the Zeiss label this is a common use too. You may have seen Zeiss equipment at a local eyeware store where glass is measured and made ready to mount in the frame that a person chooses. The eyeware chain is in fact the same kind of production and distribution chain, but is more complex in logistics while the product itself is less complex than a camera lens.
I hope this helps getting an idea what Zeiss as a company actually is. ...Show more →
Thanks eosfun! My FE 35 is made in japan, and the QC certificate is signed by the infamous Japanese guy
Feb 02, 2014 at 10:38 AM
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p.3 #18 · Does Zeiss Actually Have Their Own Factories in Japan?
ReneMurea wrote:
It really doesn't matter who manufactures the lenses as long as they are good and maintain their value.
Buy a Leica lens and you get 80-90% of what you invested, if you decide to sell it down the road.
Zeiss? I paid $899 for a Touit less than a year ago. Recently sold it for $470. Purchased a 25mm ZM for $1200 and barely sold it for $800.
I suppose the 'Made in Germany' makes the difference. I know, Leica had a factory in Canada but everything was under the German control.
In my experience used lenses in good condition typically sell for 20% or 25% less than new. Other factors can affect that sometimes, however. The Touit's are a special case, IMO, because of the FF Sony's that came out. I think that decreased the value of the crop sensor sized Touit's. The ZM is on the lower side of normal (25%), but still what I would consider normal. Leica M lenses are the exception in maintaining value, IMO, because there has been a shortage of them. That shortage may be receding a bit, but it will take the market some time to catch up with the supply. Personally lenses that gain value due to short supply I find the riskiest. IMO, they are also the one's that may drop in value the most. I prefer to buy used at 20 to 25 percent of new from a reliable source (often here on the B & S board) and generally the losses when you sell then are the least. At least that is my take.
