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Archive 2013 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge
  
 
borderlight
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge



I thought GE was bad, but Apple seems to be the world's greatest tax dodger. .....BTW: I own all the Apple devices but this story gives me pause. This is the biggest reason that a corporation shouldn't legally be of the same status as a person.


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57585401-37/apple-dodged-paying-billions-in-taxes-subcommittee-says/



May 21, 2013 at 11:34 AM
rattymouse
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


borderlight wrote:
I thought GE was bad, but Apple seems to be the world's greatest tax dodger. .....BTW: I own all the Apple devices but this story gives me pause. This is the biggest reason that a corporation shouldn't legally be of the same status as a person.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57585401-37/apple-dodged-paying-billions-in-taxes-subcommittee-says/



Apple has not broken any laws. You suggest they donate to the government?

Why do you take all the tax breaks allowed you?

Why not reserve your anger towards the government which builds in all these loopholes?

None of this is unexpected since lobbyists are part of the law writing process.








May 21, 2013 at 12:20 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


rattymouse wrote these questions:

Apple has not broken any laws. You suggest they donate to the government?

I would suggest you reread the text from the link below. Essentially they paid about 5% of the taxes they did declare. They haven't paid corporate taxes on $29 billion in the last five years. The average tax rate on the middle class is between 14-28%. For billion dollar companies it's 35%. That's why there is a government subcommittee on this issue.

Why do you take all the tax breaks allowed you?

I do wish I had the money to influence Ireland to pay only 2% on my profits while the rest is creatively hidden to avoid paying taxes on the rest. I am not in the equation, and neither are you. You can't tax what you don't declare. It's exactly like the mob's two sets of books. One for them, and one for the government to keep them happy. Didn't work out very well for Al Capone.

Why not reserve your anger towards the government which builds in all these loopholes?

I am not angry.... it's a news story. It will be sorted out. Under various administrations, usually the ones with a majority, laws are enacted that don't serve all the people. The Congressional Sequestration was automatically enacted when both parties could not work out a solution to bring down the debt. So as a result there are cuts across the board instead of closing just one loophole (oil) that would have remedied it all. You are going to have to read up on which party is better at destroying America.

None of this is unexpected since lobbyists are part of the law writing process.

True, but what is expected is for a company to pay it's fair share of taxes, not avoid them. Lobbyists play a minor role in affecting the IRS tax laws. Corporate lawyers and tax specialists are more of a concern as outlined in the article. Here's how Apple sees it:

"Apple executives told the Subcommittee that the company has no intention of returning those funds to the United States unless and until there is a more favorable environment, emphasizing a lower corporate tax rate and a simplified tax code."

Don't you wish we could have the same options?


For those who didn't click on the link here's an excerpt from the CNet report:

"Apple is an American success story," the report reads. "Today, Apple Inc. maintains more than $102 billion in offshore cash, cash equivalents and marketable securities (cash). Apple executives told the Subcommittee that the company has no intention of returning those funds to the United States unless and until there is a more favorable environment, emphasizing a lower corporate tax rate and a simplified tax code."
The subcommittee, which is led by Sens. Carl Levin and John McCain, has been conducting a lengthy investigation into Apple's alleged tax-avoidance strategies. With its success, Apple has come under scrutiny. The company has earned a $145 billion pile of cash -- more than $100 billion of which is held outside the U.S. To bring it back into the country, Apple would face up to a 35 percent corporate tax rate.

In its report, the subcommittee notes that Apple has creatively set up corporate structures in various countries that let it act as a resident of nowhere; therefore, the company gets to pay barely any or no corporate taxes on its international revenue. In fact, one of Apple's subsidiaries, Apple Operations International, hasn't paid corporate taxes for the last five years even though it earned $29.6 billion from 2009 to 2012, according to the Senate panel.

Apple "has used a variety of offshore structures, arrangements, and transactions to shift billions of dollars in profits away from the United States and into Ireland, where Apple has negotiated a special corporate tax rate of less than 2 percent," the report says. "One of Apple's more unusual tactics has been to establish and direct substantial funds to offshore entities that are not declared tax residents of any jurisdiction."





May 21, 2013 at 02:03 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


Is it illegal what Apple did or is doing? Although that would likely matter not at all, in this or any other administration, with this jokester of an AG or any other, if it isn't illegal, more power to them. Ya know.... if ya got it, flaunt it And Apple clearly has got it, and so it appears they are flaunting it. So, borderlight, if I understand the substance of your post you're arguing "it ain't fair." No shite!! Since when has life been fair


May 21, 2013 at 02:35 PM
BenV
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


Nothing more fun than politics on a photography forum.


May 21, 2013 at 02:46 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


So, borderlight, if I understand the substance of your post you're arguing "it ain't fair." No shite!! Since when has life been fair

OK then.... Apple is absolved by FM decree. No worries... the people will pick up the tab through higher taxes and elimination of essential programs because Apple chose not to pay them. Seems fair even though life isn't.



May 21, 2013 at 02:52 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


Nothing more fun than politics on a photography forum.

I don't know, the "internet sales tax" post had a good run. It is, after all, the Miscellaneous Forum.



May 21, 2013 at 03:27 PM
ronfronberg
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


borderlight wrote:
I don't know, the "internet sales tax" post had a good run. It is, after all, the Miscellaneous Forum.


The internet tax personally affects me.

Apple income out of the US - Good for Apple - I wish I was able to do this.

ron



May 21, 2013 at 05:07 PM
corndog
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


Maybe they don't want their money wasted on scotch, cuban cigars, vacations, and kickbacks? Maybe they'd rather do better things with their money?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57580698-92/apple-samsung-others-raise-$32m-after-china-earthquake/
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57370922-37/apple-ceo-tim-cook-donates-$100-million-to-charity/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/apple-donates-2-5-million-to-red-cross_n_2101461.html
http://www.cultofmac.com/114790/apple-donates-9000-ipads-to-teachers-working-in-impoverished-schools-report/

Looks like the code rejects the dollar sign, I'm sure you guys can figure it out.



May 21, 2013 at 05:45 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge



borderlight wrote:
I don't know, the "internet sales tax" post had a good run. It is, after all, the Miscellaneous Forum.


"The internet tax personally affects me."

It could affect everybody. The big difference is it is proposed legislation, not finalized and faces an uphill battle in the House. The Apple tax dodge is happening now. Votes not needed. Maybe for some another cry for why a camera store didn't get their stuff to them on time using FM as the blunt instrument is more important.

"Apple income out of the US - Good for Apple - I wish I was able to do this."

Then I guess you are cool with Adobe renting you their software too. You know, hooray for greed and big business.
I am in business too. I sell clues. Want to buy one?





May 21, 2013 at 05:52 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



15Bit
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


How is this related to photography?


May 21, 2013 at 06:58 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


15Bit wrote:
How is this related to photography?


It isn't any longer. It started out as a news story that I was asked to clarify. I did, but then it resulted in political conflict..... my bad. I don't want this to end up more contentious than it has been. If somebody wants to report this, it's OK with me. Sorry, folks.



May 21, 2013 at 07:21 PM
Sarsfield
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


It isn't any longer. It started out as a news story that I was asked to clarify. I did, but then it resulted in political conflict..... my bad. I don't want this to end up more contentious than it has been. If somebody wants to report this, it's OK with me. Sorry, folks.

Don't be sorry. Just because all the Apple fanboyz jump on you is no reason to back down from your argument. And it doesn't have to be contentious. Why does Apple feel it can dictate to the gov't what they will and won't do with regard to corporate tax? Because the present administration has made this country a haven for the rockstar corporate icons to do whatever they please. And then we'll invite them to the white house for a private party with Jay Z(ero) and B(igbooty)eyonce. Oh, as far as you and I, pay your taxes or go to jail. That's right. Jail. The system is broken - maybe beyond repair.



May 21, 2013 at 07:40 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


Sarsfield wrote:
Don't be sorry. Just because all the Apple fanboyz jump on you is no reason to back down from your argument.


I'm not an Apple Fanboy. I'm a photographer visiting a photography forum and wondering why someone started a thread about the tax affairs of a company whose majority business is non-photographic. I'm as enthusiastic as the next person that companies should pay their taxes, i just don't see the relevance of it here.



May 21, 2013 at 07:54 PM
corndog
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


Just in case you were lumping me in with the Apple fanboyz, I hate Apple products. As in, much more than just a general dislike. My wife has three of them, which means I'm tech support.


May 21, 2013 at 07:55 PM
rattymouse
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


borderlight wrote:
rattymouse wrote these questions:

I would suggest you reread the text from the link below. Essentially they paid about 5% of the taxes they did declare. They haven't paid corporate taxes on $29 billion in the last five years. The average tax rate on the middle class is between 14-28%. For billion dollar companies it's 35%. That's why there is a government subcommittee on this issue.



What laws did Apple break?



May 21, 2013 at 09:24 PM
corndog
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


You're taking a flawed route with that argument because it essentially implies than anything legal is good, or okay. Small experiment: go drive the speed limit in the fast lane and see how society reacts.


May 21, 2013 at 09:35 PM
anthonysemone
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


Near as I can tell, rattymouse, they broke no laws, but who am I but just an ordinary citizen, and I'm sure there's a whole bunch of legal beagles out there who know more, and if Apple did, then there'll be a big to do, full of sound and fury, which ultimately will signify nothing. Why? Because Apple's just smart enough and have enough money to know how to work the system. Sorta like Exxon and other mega corporations who have been pulling these acts for time in memoriam. That capability however ignites the animosity of those folks not similarly positioned, so they invoke the "well, it may be legal, but it's not moral," as if "morality" played any role in issues such as these


May 21, 2013 at 10:41 PM
DanBrown
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


anthonysemone wrote:
time in memoriam.


"in memoriam" = in memory of

"time immemorial" = old beyond memory




May 21, 2013 at 11:18 PM
borderlight
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Apple's Offshore Tax Dodge


Just to set the record straight, and to simply state the facts from what I have read on the subject, the answer is NO, Apple didn't break the law. They along with Google, HP, and other companies who have the resources are playing a 'keep the money from taxes" game in foreign countries but still legal here according to a 1976 tax code. Various companies will testify this week before the subcommittee. McCain calls Apple's behavior "egregious", although Apple is apparently helping the subcommittee. Apple can dictate what they want in a new tax code because technically they haven't broken the law. There now are congressional sponsors for closing the loopholes in both the Senate & House to introduce a new tax code and bring some of those huge boatloads of cash to the US.

I personally found this story interesting ....and I learned a lot too. I can't say that's the case with most of the mundane posts in the misc. forum. If this one post shakes your world so much because it deviates from photography one iota, well...... sorry, again.






May 22, 2013 at 12:22 AM
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