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A Canon Sports Photog Question
  
 
christippelt
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p.1 #1 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


Hi Guys,

After much deliberation over the last few weeks I have decided to post about my dilemma.

I am a Canon shooter.. I have a 1d III and a 5D mk III

I just recently purchased my 5D as a cheaper option to the 1dx.. Hoping that I could just put up with the slow frame rate. Turns out that I am struggling and I think I need to re-assess my camera options.

I trialed a 1DX over the weekend and think it is absolutely amazing. However it will be a real stretch to the budget. The other alternative is to purchase a 1DmkIV, although will I really be set back by the lack of features when compared to the 1DX?

To upgrade to a 1DX I would have to sell my 5D.. I could probably get a 1DmkIV and keep both cameras.. 5D as my second body and my 1DIII as a remote camera as I wouldn't mind too much if it gets beat around.

I don't shoot just sports.. I shoot some commercial and portraiture work, just heading into Weddings too.

If I get rid of my 5D and just have the 1DX and my 1DIII, I am worried that there is too much of a quality drop between the two cameras... What do you think??

Any & any opinions are much appreciated.



May 14, 2013 at 11:01 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


No worries. The 1DIV has excellent IQ. I shoot both the 1DX and 1DIV for sports, events, BIF, scenics, and just about anything else you can think of.

I upgraded from 1DsIII to 1DX because I wanted a high fps, full frame camera, to use alongside my 1DIV. For a little while, I thought I would upgrade the 1DIV to another 1DX, but the relatively high cost caused me to pause. Now that I've been shooting both since last August, I've decided to keep the 1DIV, for sure.

Having the two crop factors is a nice combination. For BIF, I sometimes use the 1DIV + 500/4L IS and 1DX + 100-400L. For events, I really like the 1DX + 50/1.2L and 1DIV + 85/1.2L II, as well as the usual f/2.8 zoom suspects.

A few comments on this issue were posted in this current thread.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1212176/1#11550481



May 14, 2013 at 11:57 AM
OntheRez
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p.1 #3 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


No doubt that the 1Dx is the current apex of the long 1D line. It is clearly a fine camera, and truthfully I'd buy one if I had the capital. Having said that, there are 1,000s 10,000s? of PJs and sport shooters working the 1DIV every day with professional results. It is still an excellent camera. My main attraction to the 1Dx would be its higher ISO. A step or two improvement seems to come with each generation. A useable 51200 would be a godsend to me with the dark venues I work. The 1Dx appears to have better AF (though disputed by some) and the second CF card is long overdue improvement.

Having said all that I would in your situation question the cost/benefit of the 1Dx purchase vs say selling the 1DIII and moving to a 1DIV. I think 1DIVs are in the $3200 range right now. Don't know what the 1DIII is going at. $1500? So you'd be looking at ~ $2000 cost to upgrade to the 1DIV. The 1Dx is still ~$6,000, so your cost to upgrade would be maybe ~ $3500. Big question. Is the 1Dx worth $3500 more than the 1DIV to you? For me (aside from the fact that I just don't have the capital), I don't think the 1Dx is that much better than the 1DIV. Others likely will disagree.

If you went with your 5DIII you'd have the latest technology in high ISO, processing, handling, and have a truly robust and completely useful action camera in the 1DIV. $3.5K goes a long way towards buying some nice lenses.

I think Jim's experience noted above is particularly useful to you. Yes, he likes the 1Dx better. No he didn't think the cost of upgrading resulted in greater benefit. You'll have to work your own numbers and situation.

For me, I've held at a 1DsIII and a 1DIV as the best cost/benefit outcome. I don't have the latest/greatest of anything, but bluntly 99% of the time if I don't get the shot it's me, not the camera.

Robert



May 14, 2013 at 03:28 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #4 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


OntheRez wrote:
I think Jim's experience noted above is particularly useful to you. Yes, he likes the 1Dx better. No he didn't think the cost of upgrading resulted in greater benefit. You'll have to work your own numbers and situation.


Hey Robert,

I appreciate your comment and wanted to clarify one aspect of how you interpreted my words. I do think that selling my 1DsIII and buying a 1DX did result in a significant benefit for me. OTOH, in most situations (for ISO under 3200 to 6400), the 1DX does not provide a greater benefit in terms of IQ, when compared with either the 1DIV or the 1DsIII.

Cheers, Jim



May 14, 2013 at 08:31 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #5 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


Jim,
Not trying to put words in your mouth (or in this case characters on the screen I think we were trying to say the same sort of thing. Used within its design parameters (as you note ISO 3200 maybe 6400) the 1DsIII is still a superb piece of kit. No doubt the 1Dx can blow the doors off it with its dramatically higher ISO (and thruput and a host of other things.) I guess I hadn't really paid attention to the fact that you "upgraded" the 1DsIII to the 1Dx as I considered the 1Dx a 1DIV upgrade. Perhaps I'm missing something. Do you think the 1Dx successfully integrates the old 1D and 1Ds lines? This really is a key question for me. I know the 1Dx has a newer? or at least different sensor with fewer pixels than the 1DsIII even though it is full frame. It also has significant processor upgrades so I'd expect it to do many things better, but I think I hear you saying that below say ~ISO 6400 its IQ isn't better.

What I'm driving at is, do you think if I sold both the 1DIV and the 1DsIII (and a kidney I'd have all the benefits of both cameras (sans of course the value of backup)? If the 1Dx does in fact do both jobs, it puts it in a completely different light. Would really appreciate your thoughts on this.

Robert



May 15, 2013 at 04:17 PM
 

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ggreene
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p.1 #6 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


If your subjects are going to fill the frame on a FF sensor then I would say it's a good upgrade. If you are FL limited in a good percentage of your work then you will miss the 1D4.

I could not afford to keep my 1D4 when I upgraded to a 1DX. It was a trade off I was willing to make as my low light sports work outweighed my outdoor work. I definitely miss it for field sports though.

The 1DX is more of a transitional body that satisfies neither camp. The next 1D holds the promise to really merge the 1D and 1Ds lines as Canon will probably have the technology by then to give us the FPS at a high FF pixel density.




May 15, 2013 at 05:52 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #7 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


ggreene wrote:
If your subjects are going to fill the frame on a FF sensor then I would say it's a good upgrade. If you are FL limited in a good percentage of your work then you will miss the 1D4.

I could not afford to keep my 1D4 when I upgraded to a 1DX. It was a trade off I was willing to make as my low light sports work outweighed my outdoor work. I definitely miss it for field sports though.

The 1DX is more of a transitional body that satisfies neither camp. The next 1D holds the promise to
...Show more

I appreciate your observations and I think you have validated what I'm currently using for tools. Yes, I could desperately use higher ISO at higher Tv. Most of the venues I shoot in are actually beyond the capabilities of a 1DIV at IS0 25600, Tv 1/500, and f/2.8. Frankly the entire football season is at least a stop underexposed.

Still the sports work I do while paying isn't my critical focus. Even though I fire far more shots in sport, my real time is spent in search of the right light at the right place. Hence the 1DsIII works for me.

I had been developing the opinion that you have enunciated: "The 1DX is more of a transitional body that satisfies neither camp." I won't be surprised at all when Canon announces its 40MP monster that fires 10 fps at ISO 102400 with acceptable IQ. The fact that such a beast will cost more than the value of my truck isn't their concern. It does concern me that those of us in small, rural, marginal markets won't have access to such equipment, but I guess that's "part of the charm" in working independently in an out of the way place.

I value your thoughts particularly since many of the shots I take don't fill the frame and have to be cropped for publication.

Robert



May 15, 2013 at 07:13 PM
ggreene
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p.1 #8 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


OntheRez wrote:
I had been developing the opinion that you have enunciated: "The 1DX is more of a transitional body that satisfies neither camp." I won't be surprised at all when Canon announces its 40MP monster that fires 10 fps at ISO 102400 with acceptable IQ. The fact that such a beast will cost more than the value of my truck isn't their concern. It does concern me that those of us in small, rural, marginal markets won't have access to such equipment, but I guess that's "part of the charm" in working independently in an out of the way place.

Robert


I'm actually holding out hope that the rumors regarding the 7D2 as being more of a mini 1DX are true. Whether its 18, 21, or 24MP it will yield a big increase in pixels on target over the 1DX or the 1D4. I would deem that a worthwhile companion body to the 1DX at $3000-$3500. As you said, any Canon body in the 40MP/10FPS range is going to be $10K+ and that's out of my league.



May 15, 2013 at 07:45 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #9 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


OntheRez wrote:
...What I'm driving at is, do you think if I sold both the 1DIV and the 1DsIII (and a kidney I'd have all the benefits of both cameras (sans of course the value of backup)? If the 1Dx does in fact do both jobs, it puts it in a completely different light. Would really appreciate your thoughts on this.


Keep your spare kidney, at least for now. I would not have bought a 1DX if I had to go from two 1D-series bodies to one 1D-series body.

I think gg is right that the 1DX is a transitional body, but the timing was perfect for me. It exactly filled the role that I wanted filled. It completely satisfies my needs, and makes me very happy. OTOH, at this time, the higher pixel density and equally awesome IQ of the 1DIV (at ISO values below the ridiculous) also play an important role for me.

I think gg is also right that the next 1DX-series body might make the transition complete. The 1DIV 'linear' pixel density of 175 pixels per mm (ppmm) translates to a full frame sensor of about 26.5 MPx. That's a relatively large 22% increase in pixel density (ppmm) compared to the current sensor on the 1DX, but only about a 10% increase over the 5DIII sensor density. Time will tell.

OTOH, I wouldn't mind having a 1.3x CF body at say 35MPx.



May 15, 2013 at 08:15 PM
JPRPhotos
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p.1 #10 · A Canon Sports Photog Question


If your budget permits I would sell the 1DM3, keep the 5DM3 and buy the 1DX. The 5DM3 would be excellent for weddings, potraits and landscapes. The 1DX is excellent for sports and low light. I used two 5DM3 for sports and other low light photos for almost a year before purchasing the 1DX after trying one for ten days. I am selling two of the 5DM3 cameras and keeping a third 5DM3 as my second/backup body.


May 16, 2013 at 08:29 PM





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